Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[Cutiekitty]

They're every but as capable and have every possible investigative technique at their disposal.

They specifically requested investigative tips not be given.

I’m not bashing LE or questioning their competence. Also not justifying tips that are not constructive. I agree that they have every possible investigative technique at their disposal, but only if they are aware of it and know to ask. The world is constantly changing and technology is always one step ahead. Sometimes outside the box thinking combined with past techniques is what’s needed to solve a case. Sometimes that thinking can only come from private citizens.

 

[margarita25]

I’m second guessing myself on the gun now. Maybe I shouldn’t bet my life on such things, note to self.

 

[NickoD]

It means showing the outline of a concealed carry gun.

Exactly. Printing is a big issue for concealed carry holders. In California for example, if you carry and print you can lose your CCW completely and potentially face charges of brandishing. Also, printing is bad because you lose any tactical advantage (i.e. the bad guy knows you're the guy with the gun so they shoot you first).

The two main options you have to carry in your waist area are either inside the pants or outside (apart from some other gimmicks in the industry). IWB holsters help solve printing issues but mean that you might have to buy pants a size larger than normal to handle the thickness of the pistol. OWB holsters basically use your belt but print a lot more due to the pistol being completely outside the waist circumference.

Either way, printing is bad for the aforementioned reasons. Also, note that I keep mentioning holsters. That's because anyone around firearms enough knows that you don't shove guns in your pants like in the movies and you certainly don't shove them in pockets unless you're just asking to get hurt.

Speaking of Indiana, here's a fun local story about what we're discussing: Man out for a morning walk shoots himself in the penis, Indiana police say

So do we think BG is that stupid?

Also, I am providing an image of printing for reference.

 

[margarita25]

I think we should go with the ISP written clarification which was released after the 22nd April PC, where they listed the age range as 20s to late 30s.

They did? How the heck did I miss that? Do you have a link please, tia.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I have over 30 years experience with firearms and I do not see a gun. I also wear my Vedder holster holding my M&P Shield in shorts and a t-shirt and doesn't print at all.

In MOO, while you might be accurate in a gun being present and its placement, if you can see it in a grainy picture means that dude was printing to high heavens for everyone around to see.

I was trying to come up with the best way to say this and you nailed it!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

That social service building was right off of the Hoosier Heartland HWY and visible from the HWY. I would think that State Police and local LE traveled the HWY during the period of noon to 5pm that day. Its possible that someones dash cam could have captured an image of the vehicle.

Excellent point. I wonder how long they keep that footage or if they reviewed it.

 

[margarita25]

Exactly. Printing is a big issue for concealed carry holders. In California for example, if you carry and print you can lose your CCW completely and potentially face charges of brandishing. Also, printing is bad because you lose any tactical advantage (i.e. the bad guy knows you're the guy with the gun so they shoot you first).

The two main options you have to carry in your waist area are either inside the pants or outside (apart from some other gimmicks in the industry). IWB holsters help solve printing issues but mean that you might have to buy pants a size larger than normal to handle the thickness of the pistol. OWB holsters basically use your belt but print a lot more due to the pistol being completely outside the waist circumference.

Either way, printing is bad for the aforementioned reasons. Also, note that I keep mentioning holsters. That's because anyone around firearms enough knows that you don't shove guns in your pants like in the movies and you certainly don't shove them in pockets unless you're just asking to get hurt.

Speaking of Indiana, here's a fun local story about what we're discussing: Man out for a morning walk shoots himself in the penis, Indiana police say

So do we think BG is that stupid?

Also, I am providing an image of printing for reference.

I do wonder that even if he was printing and knew it, how concerned would he be about it in an isolated area if his intention was to get in and out quickly without really being seen.

Or maybe he didn’t know he was printing, if he was.

 

[Jabarn]

I’m second guessing myself on the gun now. Maybe I shouldn’t bet my life on such things, note to self.

Hey Margarita... it looks like a gun to me and he is reaching for it. So many times we rethink things because there is not much transparency (for good reason, I suppose), but the main clue is what Libby caught from her phone. It’s a no harm, no foul situation to at least think about the image to speculate with a deep caring about the girls.

Despite it all, it makes sense he had a gun. It may be coincidental the outline in the pocket looks like a gun, and I am not ready to say it’s not. IMO and hope he is caught soon. This has gone on too long.

 

[Cutiekitty]

As I understsnd it they can tell the phones in use and their distance to the tower thereby putting them in locations. But I think it takes a while.

Unfortunately they have to be in use. Might not have turned it back on till he got back home. If they have a suspect the lack of use could lend support to their overall case though.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I do wonder that even if he was printing and knew it, how concerned would he be about it in an isolated area if his intention was to get in and out quickly without really being seen.

Or maybe he didn’t know he was printing, if he was.

He probably wouldn’t, but I’d think the witnesses would’ve noticed and taken a harder look at him. Sketches might’ve looked more like the NBG from the start.

 

[Jabarn]

Unfortunately they have to be in use. Might not have turned it back on till he got back home. If they have a suspect the lack of use could lend support to their overall case though.

So back to something from the beginning... BG may be off the grid, and by that I mean he doesn’t have a cell phone, because he can’t afford one, or may not have anyone to call. He may be “old school” and not have a reason to need a phone, like a job or family he cares to catch up with from time to time. It’s all a theory. Why he wound up in that particular town with reason to plan such a crime is the hardest part to figure out, and I think it will take what is known as good old fashioned police work.

Night all.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

And maybe something on his head, only as to whether it's a ball cap, a hoodie top, or a mullet is hard to say. The only other thing I could concede is that the brown thing sticking down on our left could possibly be a fanny pack or deer kit. Of course, it could also just be part of his shirt sticking out. I'm not married to any details in those images because it's just not clear enough for me to feel confident about what we're looking at-especially when many other people see different things.

That's what is so strange to me. At one frame it looks like he has a hat on. Another frame it doesnt. The more I watch it the more different things I see....or dont see.

 

[margarita25]

He probably wouldn’t, but I’d think the witnesses would’ve noticed and taken a harder look at him. Sketches might’ve looked more like the NBG from the start.

Let me put it like this re: someone noticing. Sometimes I’m “printing” (not with a gun) and this is due to what I happen to be wearing at the time and I may not be aware of it beforehand. If I’m printing and I know it and I’m walking by someone I’m able to cover it up. But this is not happening when I’m in a highly visible area, so to speak, meaning I’m not walking through the grocery printing, but I may be outside printing in a less populous area.

 

[MizStery]

Hi Jealoushe,
I posted back to your quote (BBM in blue)because it reminded me of a couple similar discussions on Threads #93 and #94 respectively.

There is no mention by investigators that they have any information based on cell phone data. This is pure speculation.

<snip>LE needs to be keeping records. I think a sign in sheet is pretty common. I think they may want to cross reference the phone number to see if anyone lied or maybe if any of the numbers was pinging around the bridge that day. Moo

I think at some point BG might have absentmindedly turned on his cell phone or he didn’t turn off his cell back at his car. Then his cell could have pinged at one of the adjacent cell towers in the vicinity. My speculation only.
<snip>
I think it’s in the realm of possibility that data analysis using an algorithm could extract phone numbers from a data base of people interviewed. Then investigators could catalog which cells pinged in the radius of any adjacent cell towers during the window of opportunity. My Theory.

combed through the cell pings in that area and one persons isn’t matching their story. <snip> I would think it would be an excellent way to see what phones were there that day.

BBM

 

[Cutiekitty]

Surely this has been mentioned over a thousand times, but if BG is indeed only 18 now, he would have been 16 at the time of the crimes. I don't think he's that young, but if so, he'd have had the day off of school, too. MOO

Edit: I've been made aware that the age range was changed to 20s to 30s. Ignore this post.

Nope, not ignoring your post. If he’s 20 he would’ve been 18 - possibly still in school.

 

[thesensitivechild]

I do too. I don’t believe he fired a gun, although he may have been armed with one.

This was a brazen crime, but he probably wasn’t as reckless as that.

Someone would have certainly heard something, even if they initially ignored the sound, or attributed it to hunters or something.

What about a silencer?

 

[MassGuy]

What about a silencer?

Those are rarely used in crimes, and make a gun anything but “silent.”

Those gunshots would still be audible.

My guess is that he used a knife to kill them.

 

[mtnlites]

What about a silencer?

They're not that silent.

IMO a gun was used to subdue them but it wasn't the murder weapon.

ETA: Sorry @MassGuy I seem to be your echo.

 

[margarita25]

That's what is so strange to me. At one frame it looks like he has a hat on. Another frame it doesnt. The more I watch it the more different things I see....or dont see.

A couple things about the different frames. I’m about done with my own visual interpretations LOL but one thing I did notice was that I’ve noticed things differently in different frames. For instance what I thought was a pouch, maybe ammo pouch, in one frame, looks more like a shirt tail in another.

Imo I did notice that the “white” coming out of his jacket actually moves and transforms shape in another frame which shows it’s pliability. I recall this from the animated image I believe. Would like to take a look at this again in the new clip released. Jmo.

 

[Jax49]

They did? How the heck did I miss that? Do you have a link please, tia.

The person in the sketch released April 22nd is described as having a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20’s to late 30’s

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

ETA link:

Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches