Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[GA_Peach]

Do WS members think they have been focused on this vehicle from the beginning of the investigation???

I do. I also think that the "hitchhiker" whom they asked about in the beginning has been on their radar from the start. As I have said before (and please excuse me for sounding like a broken record), I firmly believe that new evidence has come to light and that has caused the shift in LE's investigative strategy.

IMO, the "hitchhiker" and vehicle were brought to LE's attention in the first few days of the investigation. Up until recently, these items had been secondary. They were open items, but there was no pressing need to get to the bottom of them. However, I believe that the the new evidence that has come into LE's possession now makes LE certain that BG drove that car (or at least escaped via it). I would not be shocked if we come to find out that the newly released sketch is actually of the hitchhiker that LE asked about in the first press conferences.

And thinking of the girls' families on Mother's Day.

 

[Ozoner]

To add one more thing to the discussion: On one of the closed threads ( either 99 or 100) an OP was speculating as to what the possible motive for the murders could be. I thought that when felony crimes are committed, prosecutors and LE legally are not required to/ do not have to come up with a motive for a crime. They just have to prove that Person A committed it based on the evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt." Can someone on WS with a legal background address this? Thanks!

I don't have a legal background, but I've followed enough cases through the trial phase over the years to know that your statement is correct. A prosecutor never has to prove motive or even present one to the jury. However, a plausible motive makes it easier for a prosecutor to get a conviction. Juries have acquitted defendants many times due to the lack of any apparent motive; I've heard jurors say as much in post-verdict interviews.

 

[Vinrah]

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Please people do NOT put out rumours like this. The idea that one of them was pregnant is old and there is NO evidence for that claim. Rumours like this hurt the families and the reputation of the victims.
General statistics about violent crime do not help much if we do not have ALL facts the investigators have. For example a general geographic profile would place the killer away from Delphi, his home would be around 20-40 miles away but the police said explicitly that they suspect he lives in Delphi or used to live there. So we have to believe that they have information that contradict the abstract profile in that regard.
The idea that they knew the killer also is old and not very plausible. First of all they texted about a "creepy guy" before they went on the bridge. If they knew him they would have been more specific. Second if they knew him it is unlikely they would have filmed him. Because that is how our mind works, even if we do not like a person or have a conflict with a person, if we know them we usuaslly do not expect a violent crime to happen.

 

[Jealoushe]

Just a comment about being agile in this... when psychopaths kill they get such an insane adrenaline rush, that kind of thing can give you super athletic strength and skill you wouldn’t normally have.

 

[gitana1]

To add one more thing to the discussion: On one of the closed threads ( either 99 or 100) an OP was speculating as to what the possible motive for the murders could be. I thought that when felony crimes are committed, prosecutors and LE legally are not required to/ do not have to come up with a motive for a crime. They just have to prove that Person A committed it based on the evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt." Can someone on WS with a legal background address this? Thanks!

You're right. Legally motive is not an element of murder. However, any good prosecutor knows the jury wants to hear motive. So the stage usually tries to give one.

 

[gitana1]

I don't have a legal background, but I've followed enough cases through the trial phase over the years to know that your statement is correct. A prosecutor never has to prove motive or even present one to the jury. However, a plausible motive makes it easier for a prosecutor to get a conviction. Juries have acquitted defendants many times due to the lack of any apparent motive; I've heard jurors say as much in post-verdict interviews.

That's right. Exactly.

 

[MizStery]

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Dear rosesfromangels,

I appreciate that you have been a steadfast champion of our two roses.

I read all your posts and appreciate the research and thoughtful insight you bring to our thread. You are always very cautious to flag when your post are theory per TOS.

A heartfelt dozen roses to you and all WS posters on ‘’Mother’s Day”and to the families of our two roses.

 

[wgram]

I can’t shake the gut feel this was someone who “knew” the girls. Maybe not directly, but in some way. I very well could be wrong, but I feel like he would’ve struck again if this wasn’t somewhat targeted to an extent.

Again, all JMO and I don’t have a specific reason other than a weird feeling.

I hope I’m wrong. Justice is coming, just not in our time...

BBM I agree that feeling won't leave me either. The girls knew the man enough to cooperate because if they didn't we would have heard them rebelling "going down the hill" MOO

 

[ilovechili]

Jumping in on "sketch chat"

I think the original sketch we had for so long has enough basic features to match so many men. I open my local Indy news links and almost every day (no kidding) there is someone's crime picture posted on there that looks like "old" BG. And I still see "him" everywhere I go. He looks like EveryMan.

The new sketch for me, however, doesn't look like every one. I haven't been out and about once since it's release and thought "oh! that guy looks like BG". Not once. It seems much more unique to me. IMO it is no where near as every day midwestern man as the old sketch.

------

Also, at the end of the last thread I posted about the NB thread and I still think you all would be interested in checking it out for some of the latest posts so here it is again. There's a video posted from his personal YouTube that is a must see. I was skeptical of a connection to this case at first but that video and his FB and comments on his FB... well, see for yourself. It's a short thread and I think the video is near the bottom of page 1.

Identified! - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

ETA: corrected link to take you to page 1 and not 2

BBM. I agree as a midwestern born and raised myself. The first sketch and look was common/classic small town midwestern from the bird legs to the clothing to the beer belly or bread, potato and fried food belly (or it could be as some think a loaded down jacket). This second sketch, nope, no way no how. While I think it could fit many people in the country, on a bridge in a small town at the "right" time and be a common look? Nope. I can believe this is who they are after but the look is far less common to me to be seen there so he should stand out? I do, however, see people that can look like that sketch in this case and I would not say it is an uncommon look but the first sketch was typical age (35 to 55 maybe) midwestern man or many at least. This second sketch is someone someone KNOWS. First man was many--did culture play a part and people's own leanings and thoughts or did he set out to look like every guy from the plant down the road/construction crew? I can see first guy easily working at the plant or on the crew, second guy not so easily--not that he could not but his look would not be as common of a look in this area.

I am open to almost all theories yet because we know little but I lean towards this is someone local and someone no one would think could do such a thing or his family makes people think that even if he is a somewhat odd duck...

Jmo and nothing is meant to say it could not be a usual look (the new sketch) or generalize but yah in general lol... The potato, beer, etc. remark is meant non-offensively myself as I love them as well... Just saying, he was typical top heavy, bird leg, probably no butt midwesterner in the first sketch, not too tall, more towards middle aged...

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ETA: My main point is I believe the second sketch is who they are looking for but the look is more rare than the first sketch in the area most likely... Who again I think would resemble many...

 

[rosesfromangels]

Ok. Breaking out the sage and doing a virtual thread smudging again.
The death of our 2 Roses brings out the passion in all of us.

Peace, love, and roses to all.

 

[enelram]

Do WS members think they have been focused on this vehicle from the beginning of the investigation???

Nope, I think this is part of their 'new direction'.
Someone connected to that vehicle parked at welfare bldg. gave
them a great snow job of an alibi about who was driving the car and
why they were there. Local LE bought their story.
Time for a second sniff on this person and their excuse/alibi.

 

[zencompass]

In my opinion.... the police have deemed the newly released sketch "primary" and the older sketch "secondary" for a reason.

Perhaps in going towards a "new direction", the authorities are looking at the possibility that more than one person is responsible for this heinous crime. Just a thought.

 

[raja]

Just thinking could the car be traced back to a woman and she is saying she parked it there? That seems the most obvious. A woman did not kill the girls. I am sure this has been said already a hundred times. It just kind of hit me today.

 

[zencompass]

Just thinking could the car be traced back to a woman and she is saying she parked it there? That seems the most obvious. A woman did not kill the girls. I am sure this has been said already a hundred times. It just kind of hit me today.

But... maybe her passenger(s) murdered the girls? Just throwing this thought out there.

Or, as others here have suggested, an individual may have provided an alibi for the person who parked there.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Do WS members think they have been focused on this vehicle from the beginning of the investigation???

I think it’s definitely been on their radar. They need to figure out who was there that day.

 

[rosesfromangels]

In my opinion.... the police have deemed the newly released sketch "primary" and the older sketch "secondary".

Perhaps in going towards a "new direction", the authorities are looking at the possibility that more than one person is responsible for this heinous crime. Just a thought.

This aligns with my speculations. Older/younger guy duo. Younger guy is primary Perp. As usual, amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[Snoop Sister]

BBM I agree that feeling won't leave me either. The girls knew the man enough to cooperate because if they didn't we would have heard them rebelling "going down the hill" MOO

They would cooperate with a gun pointed at them as well.

 

[Jdart14]

It’s definitely the most plausible scenario

Stranger murders generally take much longer to solve than familiar ones

I think these murders were as much random as they were brazen and risky

Jmo

I agree with this also...but I also want to lean towards him already being in the park and familiar with who was there and general location of those individuals. To do all of this in broad daylight you would assume he and at least some level of comfort about who could possibly witness this. I believe he had spent some time at the park that day and had traveled much of the park to feel comfortable with this opportunity and general area of where he intended to ultimately put his plan into reality..

 

[mtnlites]

BBM

I lived in a town roughly half the size of Delphi for several years. I had kids in school, and was involved in a few community activities. Still, it was remarkable how many folks remained strangers, as in names and faces. This was not my hometown, so that was partly a factor.

I believe BG’s identity will prove to be a degree or two separation — going with the six degrees of separation social connection theory.

My Delphi friends and family say that they don't know everyone in town, either. I think the whole "it's a small town so everyone knows each other" is mostly a myth now. Perhaps decades ago when your entire life (work, socialization, shopping, dining, & school) revolved around your small town, that was true, but we've been slowly sliding away from that for the past 30 years. Now people drive to other towns and counties to eat. People commute to other places for work. Not everyone goes to church. We shop off the internet. Many of our friends are people we only know online. It's entirely possible to live in a small place and still see people you don't know every day.

 

[mtnlites]

BBM I agree that feeling won't leave me either. The girls knew the man enough to cooperate because if they didn't we would have heard them rebelling "going down the hill" MOO

Or he was pointing a gun at them and they feared for their lives.

I think it does a disservice to the girls and verges on victim blaming when we say what we think they should've done. It is easy enough for us, sitting here in the safety of our homes and with hindsight, to say that they would've fought back or rebelled. In that particular moment, however, and them being actual children we can't say with authority what they would've or would not have done.