Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[tresir2012]

Yeah, really. If they had a distinct POI they could arrest him on suspicion.

LE have said they have POI's. At one stage they said everyone was a POI. They just don't have any named POI's and they can't arrest all the POI's on suspicion. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

At the very least, they could obtain his DNA.

That’s why there’s almost no chance that this guy is a felon, if DNA evidence exists (not only convicted, but people arrested for felonies have their DNA collected in Indiana).

And I believe DNA evidence exists, because of the quality of the suspects that have been cleared so far.

Two really good ones.

Keeping my fingers crossed. I have downloaded all but one, most recent, DNA’s into Gedmatch. I assume ours will be of no relevance to the case at all, given our backgrounds, and small family trees, but I shall download even the latest one, as Y is uncommon. Hopefully, other people interested in the case will do the same. And maybe it is the only real thing we can do for Libby and Abby?

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Good post! Let's start with why.

*Argument with GF, wife, mother so he went for a walk to blow off steam and he took his rage out on the girls...

*Revenge kill to send a message to someone.

*Thrill kill

Everyone feel free to add to this list. These are some thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head and all is MOO.

@waltzingmatilda, I like your thinking. Am thinking that, just prior to (i. e., by "prior to", I mean in the previous few month, or months) his Feb. 13 meeting with A & L on the bridge, the POI had a beyond-horrible argument (including breaking up) with his GF (w/whom he had *thought* [operative word here] he'd be spending the rest of his life). Made him explosively furious. Yet he didn't act out his anger (punching on punching bags, kicking holes in drywall, etc.), but instead, "stuffed it", ultimately becoming darkly depressed...

[Keep in mind that this is *entirely* my own theory, although I have been around a few such angry individuals in the past.]

In that state of darkness and despair over the break-up, he perhaps viewed...*advertiser censored* (something he may have *never* done prior to the upsetting argument). Without realizing it, he got addicted, then... on an unexpectedly gorgeous weather day in mid-February, decided to do the unthinkable. Being a quiet, mostly-loner kind of a guy, he went for a walk, but couldn't escape the dark thoughts.

The few who actually *do* know him have *no* idea that he's ever even *looked* at *advertiser censored* ("not *him*", they'd say, if we could ask them), so of course, in their minds he is totally an ***impossible*** suspect.

MOO and utter speculation.

NB: In the past I have become good friends with women who later shared with me that their husbands (who had each been involved in "people"-type work, by the way) had tried to get "unstuck" from viewing *advertiser censored*. (One *did* get unstuck, and renewed his marriage; the other, very sadly, took his own life.) None of their co-workers had any idea what was causing their dark depression and changes in behavior.

 

[neesaki]

The girls captured his image as he followed them on the bridge. He killed them minutes after Libby captured that image. IMO the image is of them being stalked. Not of a man who they coincidentally then come upon in the woods being gang jumped, or whatever.

Also, he doesn't remotely look like a gang banger to me. They also scouted those woods with a fine toothed comb and we haven't heard one word about an illicit pot farm.

I don't know. I have a feeling it's all horribly simple. As it usually is. He saw the girls, stalked them and killed them because he's an evil predator. So I'm going with thrill kill. That's my thought at the moment.

I agree with very possibly thrill kill. I still can not wrap my brain around the monsters who commit these atrocities. This stuff haunts my mind and on occasion gives me nightmares. I have no doubt that many here can relate to that.

I do get the feeling that LE knows or at least has a very good idea who the perp is, but needs additional evidence to nail him, but that’s nothing more than JMHO.

 

[Jabarn]

LE have said they have POI's. At one stage they said everyone was a POI. They just don't have any named POI's and they can't arrest all the POI's on suspicion. JMO

Going back to the transient theory and the brazenness of this crime with no understood motive. There is the possibility he isn’t local (or has work or family there) even though the latest presser strongly suggests it.

Another story caught my interest today (the murder on the Appalachian Trail) and, of course, I was drawn in on the personality of such a person who could commit a seemingly random crime like this.

NOT saying the situation this weekend on the Appalachian Trail has anything to do with Delphi- only trying to think outside the box on the suspect, BG, and how he might be. Amateur opinion.

 

[Jax49]

Revisiting the description:

White male between 5'6" and 5'10", weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddish brown hair.

 

[rosesfromangels]

A few questions for any of you who might know this information. Not pointing fingers or accusing anyone, just narrowing in on a couple theories.

At what point during the day (at school, at home, or elsewhere) were the girls routinely *not* directly supervised by a guardian or school official?

During these routine times where they were not being supervised by a guardian or school official, who routinely had access to them? Where were they physically, and who was routinely at the same place they were?

Thank you in advance for your replies.
Amateur opinion and speculation

ETA: Did any school teacher/gym teacher notice a change in behavior of either girls prior to the murders? Absences, nervousness, teary outbursts, etc?

 

[rogue ant]

That’s exactly what I think; if he knew them, he knew them in a general sense. At best, he had seen them before.

RSBM.

True. I grew up in a town that size. Thinking back to when I was the girls' age, not every single adult would have known who I was, who my family was. Many, but not everyone. Just as I didn't know who every adult in town was either. My mother probably did since she had been born there herself, as were her parents.

 

[mtnlites]

Going back to the transient theory and the brazenness of this crime with no understood motive. There is the possibility he isn’t local (or has work or family there) even though the latest presser strongly suggests it.

Another story caught my interest today (the murder on the Appalachian Trail) and, of course, I was drawn in on the personality of such a person who could commit a seemingly random crime like this.

NOT saying the situation this weekend on the Appalachian Trail has anything to do with Delphi- only trying to think outside the box on the suspect, BG, and how he might be. Amateur opinion.

I keep returning to the Petit family murders. It was "supposed" to be a robbery, but the mother and 2 daughters were tortured and killed. I don't think robbery was ever the motive. That crime was almost completely random by chance, too. The mother and youngest daughter (12 maybe?) were in a grocery store and one of the perps saw the little girl. He followed them back to their house to see where they lived and then got a friend and waited until night to attack. If we take a conversation about how LE handled that case off the table, and ignore how quickly they were apprehended after, we could be looking at something similar here: a perp with an urge to attack or kill and two totally random young girls who catch his eye at no fault of their own. There were no prior interactions for the Petits; they didn't know either men. They probably never saw him in that grocery store. In hindsight, it becomes clear that the men should've been locked up a long time ago. A look at their rap sheets show that these were dangerous men who had somehow slipped through the cracks. Even the wife of one of them thinks that he attacked the youngest daughter because she looked like her when she was that age (and he apparently had an affinity for young girls). I think once BG is apprehended, we'll find out that he has similar things in his past, too. Perhaps not any actual arrests, but I bet there will be people who will come forward and share anecdotal evidence about times when he did things that should have put him behind bars.

 

[tresir2012]

A few questions for any of you who might know this information. Not pointing fingers or accusing anyone, just narrowing in on a couple theories.

At what point during the day (at school, at home, or elsewhere) were the girls routinely *not* directly supervised by a guardian or school official?

During these routine times where they were not being supervised by a guardian or school official, who routinely had access to them? Where were they physically, and who was routinely at the same place they were?

Thank you in advance for your replies.
Amateur opinion and speculation

ETA: Did any school teacher/gym teacher notice a change in behavior of either girls prior to the murders? Absences, nervousness, teary outbursts, etc?

Well they were obviously allowed on walks by themselves, so do you mean sports and band practices, or social events for example? We have also seen pics of Abby fishing. Is that the sort of thing you are meaning?

 

[Jabarn]

I keep returning to the Petit family murders. It was "supposed" to be a robbery, but the mother and 2 daughters were tortured and killed. I don't think robbery was ever the motive. That crime was almost completely random by chance, too. The mother and youngest daughter (12 maybe?) were in a grocery store and one of the perps saw the little girl. He followed them back to their house to see where they lived and then got a friend and waited until night to attack. If we take a conversation about how LE handled that case off the table, and ignore how quickly they were apprehended after, we could be looking at something similar here: a perp with an urge to attack or kill and two totally random young girls who catch his eye at no fault of their own. There were no prior interactions for the Petits; they didn't know either men. They probably never saw him in that grocery store. In hindsight, it becomes clear that the men should've been locked up a long time ago. A look at their rap sheets show that these were dangerous men who had somehow slipped through the cracks. Even the wife of one of them thinks that he attacked the youngest daughter because she looked like her when she was that age (and he apparently had an affinity for young girls). I think once BG is apprehended, we'll find out that he has similar things in his past, too. Perhaps not any actual arrests, but I bet there will be people who will come forward and share anecdotal evidence about times when he did things that should have put him behind bars.

I agree. The Petit murders were random, in that there was nothing they did to tick of the killers, but mom and daughter were simply seen shopping, and each female was appealing to the two offenders. However, one thing odd about that case was taking mom to the bank to get money. So there was a dual motive.

I wonder when BG first saw the girls. In the beginning, I imagined maybe somewhere along the car route to the trail, but don’t think anything came from that, at least not publicly (thinking convenient store surveillance cameras, for example).

He must’ve been there at the trail, to be fair, and located them soon after they were dropped off, so it makes sense BG was there first. IMO.

 

[Ellie1]

I just had a thought about what might have prompted the girls to begin recording him.

What if he came onto the bridge from the direction they were heading, passed them (facing each other), then shortly after did a U-turn and walked back the way he had come, following them? Maybe not having even gone all the way to the other end (the end they had come from - sorry I get the north and south mixed up). If someone passed me on a trail, let alone a bridge, and then I noticed them following me shortly after, I'd be terrified.

Do we know for sure which end of the bridge he walked onto before he started following the girls?

 

[cluciano63]

The last press conference was held on 4/22 and about a week later I posted that I thought it was possible BG was recently taken into custody on unrelated charges and LE was trying to get everything they can to charge him and proceed.

I don't know if this is the case or not, or perhaps it's wishful thinking that a killer isn't out on the loose, but after reading the NB thread I'm leaning more and more in this direction.
Things sure seem to be stacking up here. Coincidence???

GK same age group as BG
GK has ties to Delphi
GK has connections to RL and Mears property
GK currently in custody and charged in murder of NB (another female)
NB was found in a shack and shack was mentioned in latest presser
GK has similarities to sketch
GK arrested on 4/5 and latest presser with sketch #2 released on 4/22

Identified! - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

jmo

If they knew who BG was...or where he was...why say “he could be in this room?” And why show a two-yr old sketch that may or may not really look like him to anyone who might see it? As it is, we all see different things in this sketch as well as the prior one.

 

[FinePrint]

I keep returning to the Petit family murders. It was "supposed" to be a robbery, but the mother and 2 daughters were tortured and killed. I don't think robbery was ever the motive. That crime was almost completely random by chance, too. The mother and youngest daughter (12 maybe?) were in a grocery store and one of the perps saw the little girl. He followed them back to their house to see where they lived and then got a friend and waited until night to attack. If we take a conversation about how LE handled that case off the table, and ignore how quickly they were apprehended after, we could be looking at something similar here: a perp with an urge to attack or kill and two totally random young girls who catch his eye at no fault of their own. There were no prior interactions for the Petits; they didn't know either men. They probably never saw him in that grocery store. In hindsight, it becomes clear that the men should've been locked up a long time ago. A look at their rap sheets show that these were dangerous men who had somehow slipped through the cracks. Even the wife of one of them thinks that he attacked the youngest daughter because she looked like her when she was that age (and he apparently had an affinity for young girls). I think once BG is apprehended, we'll find out that he has similar things in his past, too. Perhaps not any actual arrests, but I bet there will be people who will come forward and share anecdotal evidence about times when he did things that should have put him behind bars.

That case was just so horrific, still gives me the chills thinking of her on bank surveillance cameras trying to get the money to save her family’s lives.

 

[Jabarn]

The last press conference was held on 4/22 and about a week later I posted that I thought it was possible BG was recently taken into custody on unrelated charges and LE was trying to get everything they can to charge him and proceed.

I don't know if this is the case or not, or perhaps it's wishful thinking that a killer isn't out on the loose, but after reading the NB thread I'm leaning more and more in this direction.
Things sure seem to be stacking up here. Coincidence???

GK same age group as BG
GK has ties to Delphi
GK has connections to RL and Mears property
GK currently in custody and charged in murder of NB (another female)
NB was found in a shack and shack was mentioned in latest presser
GK has similarities to sketch
GK arrested on 4/5 and latest presser with sketch #2 released on 4/22

Identified! - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

jmo

That is strange, and a horrible crime. Did Nicole B know all the people later arrested prior? Any indication there was a motive?

 

[Charlot123]

Revisiting the description:

White male between 5'6" and 5'10", weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddish brown hair.

We are in overweight to obese zone, BMI-wise, for this white male with reddish-brown hair.

 

[Jabarn]

I just had a thought about what might have prompted the girls to begin recording him.

What if he came onto the bridge from the direction they were heading, passed them (facing each other), then shortly after did a U-turn and walked back the way he had come, following them? Maybe not having even gone all the way to the other end (the end they had come from - sorry I get the north and south mixed up). If someone passed me on a trail, let alone a bridge, and then I noticed them following me shortly after, I'd be terrified.

Do we know for sure which end of the bridge he walked onto before he started following the girls?

That has always stymied me as well, since the Snapchat pic of Abby has the expanse of bridge behind her and no one is there. We know the crime began at the south end of the bridge, so he either had come up the hill from the south end of it (where they were captured) or he was watching them from a vantage point and traversed the bridge quickly starting at the north end.

IMO.

 

[CndyM]

That has always stymied me as well, since the Snapchat pic of Abby has the expanse of bridge behind her and no one is there. We know the crime began at the south end of the bridge, so he either had come up the hill from the south end of it (where they were captured) or he was watching them from a vantage point and traversed the bridge quickly starting at the north end.

IMO.

I thought I saw picture of early snapshot that showed a person just beginning to walk on the bridge. They are WAY back in the background.

 

[zencompass]

The last press conference was held on 4/22 and about a week later I posted that I thought it was possible BG was recently taken into custody on unrelated charges and LE was trying to get everything they can to charge him and proceed.

I don't know if this is the case or not, or perhaps it's wishful thinking that a killer isn't out on the loose, but after reading the NB thread I'm leaning more and more in this direction.
Things sure seem to be stacking up here. Coincidence???

GK same age group as BG
GK has ties to Delphi
GK has connections to RL and Mears property
GK currently in custody and charged in murder of NB (another female)
NB was found in a shack and shack was mentioned in latest presser
GK has similarities to sketch
GK arrested on 4/5 and latest presser with sketch #2 released on 4/22

Identified! - IN - Newton County, Fem, 30 Mar 2019 - Nicole Bowen

jmo

It was the use of the word "shack" that got me wondering too. Especially since the press conf. was after the arrests.

I wondered if the word was used more as a code of sorts than towards a religious angle.

This is one sadistic, vicious individual who is capable of anything monstrous.

Is L.E. looking for a connection to him with the car left for 4 hours at the old CPS building? Was he a passenger? Was he 1/2 of the couple under the bridge?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I just had a thought about what might have prompted the girls to begin recording him.

What if he came onto the bridge from the direction they were heading, passed them (facing each other), then shortly after did a U-turn and walked back the way he had come, following them? Maybe not having even gone all the way to the other end (the end they had come from - sorry I get the north and south mixed up). If someone passed me on a trail, let alone a bridge, and then I noticed them following me shortly after, I'd be terrified.

Do we know for sure which end of the bridge he walked onto before he started following the girls?

I don't believe it has ever been confirmed which end he walked onto first.

You bring up a very good theory that I have not seen explored so far.