Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[MizStery]

The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.Instead Grey has substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Why would he take down the video? Did someone ask him to take it down? I find it puzzling. MOO

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35 in the substitute link.Grey Hughes confirms to ‘Jackie’ he did a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype but unfortunately he does not offer an explanation why it’s unavailable. I cannot characterize why Grey chose to edit this particular Podcast especially since Becky gave such a detailed timeline of Derrick’s initial movements and contacts after arriving at the bridge to pickup Libby and Abby.

Thanks for trying. I found what looks like a written Q&A with BP and TG on another site. They are asked about the “couple” and they state it was a man and a woman. I do not know the veracity of the Q&A or if it’s allowed to be linked so I’m not going to add it. Looks like it was something posted on FB.

I usually listen to audio and video with a scratch paper. I have lengthy notes on the questions and answers from the Podcast. I could post the critical parts of the Podcast paraphrasing from my notes. Perhaps one of our mods could indicate if I clearly state it’s from a Grey’s Podcast which is currently unavailable if that falls within TOS rules.

This one? It’s still available although I haven’t watched it yet as its a long one, 1:07:31. <snip> How do we know the video was substituted? Abby and Libby case Round Table - with Becky Patty Part 2

Thank-you for posting the links. Unfortunately Grey has changed the content from the one with Mike and Becky Patty to another.Then to add to our confusion he retained the same link and video title. Only now instead it includes an extended 60+ minutes of a complication of various discussions.

 

[neesaki]

Is this the same one that JudgeJudi transcribed yesterday or a different one?

Part 2 of the GH interview with MP and BP, as transcribed by JudgeJudi, is post # 211 of this thread.

 

[MizStery]

Is this the same one that JudgeJudi transcribed yesterday or a different one?

Part 2 of the GH interview, as transcribed by JudgeJudi, is post # 211.

I apologize to you both for not answering.I just now saw tresir2012 original question to me. No the GH video posted by Judge Judy is not the same one I paraphrase in my post #396.

 

[tresir2012]

I know I seem obsessed with cameras, but I've wondered if the state or city owned the abandoned building, maybe they had a security camera up? Maybe not, if they were planning to demolish it anyway, but since abandoned buildings are prime targets for vandalism, I'm just curious...

Also curious about a camera on the Delphi U-store storage facility up the road.

I think the problem may be that LE used that area a lot on the 14th (can clearly be seen in the heli video) so no evidence (e.g. tyre tracks whatever) would be detectable or even admissible ) The same could be said for the cemetery area also. Re. CCTV there is also a large Anderson's grain depot nearby that may have had CCTV but if they didn't get it in the first week it may have not been available thereafter. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

I apologize to you both for not answering.I just now saw tresir2012 original question to me. No the GH video posted by Judge Judy is not the same one I paraphrase in my post #396.

No apologies needed. With the GH videos sometimes being long and drawn out to watch, e.g. watching his clicks around the screen etc I haven't seen them all so the transcript was helpful. If that is not the one, that's a pity, if you are saying some is not available now. He is a member here so you could tag him.

 

[TL4S]

I think the problem may be that LE used that area a lot on the 14th (can clearly be seen in the heli video) so no evidence (e.g. tyre tracks whatever) would be detectable or even admissible ) The same could be said for the cemetery area also. Re. CCTV there is also a large Anderson's grain depot nearby that may have had CCTV but if they didn't get it in the first week it may have not been available thereafter. MOO.

I really hope LE collected all local camera footage soon after the crime. I suspect they would have, since there are only a small number of ways in and out of the area. Fingers crossed!

 

[x_files]

From April 22, 2019

Police release new sketch, video of suspect in Delphi murders

Snipped for focus:

"Carter also said police believe they know where the killer parked his car on the day of the murders. It was near a building that once housed child welfare offices.

"We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you, and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls," Carter said"

BBM. I was looking back at MSM and found this. I can't say that I ever realized that they had connected the car at CFS to the killer directly. Also, "we have a witness" seems new to me as well.

Any thoughts, Sleuthers?

^ This. Do they know who owns the car? and how do they know BG drove this car?
Or did a witness describe a car and they have no idea who owns it still? That's the MILLION DOLLAR question.

 

[x_files]

I think in big cities, a serial killer would need to kill more for the inhabitants to realize that indeed, there is a serial killer on the loose. In a small rural area, if a serial killer preys there, the word will get around sooner.

Big city - Seattle - and two serial killers...

With Ted Bundy, the public grew truly scared of his activities when two women were abducted from Sammamish lake in the same day. Before, Bundy abducted the same types of women, but at different places, and there was no connection between them, so for a while, the cases were not linked. Another thing that made the public aware - and scared! - was the fact that most girls were college students. A family could easily imagine their daughters being in this situation.

About the Green River Killer, I was not even aware of the case when I first moved to Pacific Northwest. And GRK actually preyed in a very narrow area, one street of SeaTac. I think the fact that he preyed on prostitutes and young runaways, "problem" girls, often with difficult family situations, made him invincible for such a long time. Prostitutes migrate, so their disappearance was not registered for a while, and also, it might have given other women a false sense of security.

Now, in Delphi, a rural area, two girls were killed, and it is a huge case. Moreover, there is a question whether Flora, and even Evanston, cases, might be related.

Reading through Bundy's case, I am now wondering if the BG guy had a longer history, but if indeed, his preys were different and are not seemingly connected.

The Bundy's victims were connected in that they reminded him of his first love, a student at UW, who rejected him.

GRK was also driven by revenge, as he visited prostitutes during his service time and it probably ruined his first marriage.

I think this person, the BG, might have a certain victims list, but no one connects them, either, because the principle of selection is not obvious. He has a car, if he killed before, it was probably far away from Delphi, and if there is indeed something that connects his victims, maybe it is his revenge?

MOO - what if the connecting factor is age, high-middle schoolers? He did not touch a single hiker, a woman walking alone. And attacked teenagers.

Possibly he viewed them as middle/high schoolers, girls and boys, who once rejected his friendship? Reminding him of the kids he hated at school? Someone bullying him?

I think his victims would not be around Delphi. But I wonder if they would be around the same age as the girls. And of both sexes?

MOO. Just an idea.

Excellent post.

Bundy's choice of victims (educated young smart college women) vs Green River's (vulnerable women) was also part of his downfall. He was dissed by his wealthy, educated first gf and was struck back at her type over and over again due to narcissistic rage/rejection. If he chose different victims he might have been off the media's radar a lot longer which is absolutely horrifying to me.
I recall the police and media reassuring the public The Green River Killer only went after prostitutes and not to worry.
They are victims too.
To tie this back to Delphi and the BG guy, he chooses a small town for his killing fields, close to home? the comfort zone for his first kill? Why two teenage girls?
Targeted or they were types that humiliated, rejected and bullied him (in his delusional psychotic/psychopathic mind)?
What do his victims say about him? The area?
Do women frighten/intimidate/enrage him so he chose easier targets?
So many questions I have...

 

[x_files]

I believe the two girls were located by a Sheriff’s Deputy - who ironically enough - was one of the first to respond to the Flora fires. This makes me believe the scene may not be as contaminated as we believe.

Such a crazy busy day of crime for a small town. I often wonder if they could be linked? Arson then two more homicides the same day.

 

[raja]

Such a crazy busy day of crime for a small town. I often wonder if they could be linked? Arson then two more homicides the same day.

They were not on the same day.

 

[TTF14]

They were not on the same day.

Or even year. The Flora fires were in '16.

 

[MDATCA]

Cryptic, this is invaluable information, and fodder for another threads worth!
This profile you just gave us really lines up with the military-like precision in which this Perp carried out the attack. Clearly, he was meticulous, was well planned, and his killing mission accomplished.

A lot to think about here. Best post on this thread. Thank you.
Amateur opinion and speculation

ETA: This profile also reminds me of some online gamer that lost their grip on reality

I used to live in a cold, snowy, windy area and a lot of people had them on just to go out and snowblower. A lot safer than a scarf flipping around.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I imagine it’s pretty common for investigations to get derailed for one reason or another. What’s hard to imagine is staying derailed for two solid years.
I fear some very major mistakes were made early on, and exacerbated by some very poor decisions the last two years. I hope none of them have sunk the investigation.

I think they go where the evidence leads them and there were multiple avenues they were looking at initially.

I don’t think they just started looking at the NBG. IMO they they’ve been looking at him for a while - they just went public with the “new direction” because they need a person to come forward to corroborate something they already know.

 

[mtnlites]

Here in Indiana, we also wear them for warmth. The younger generations go towards the skull look as opposed to a simple black Note it is pulled down to his neck A simple pull up and you're totally scaring someone

Who's wearing one? I'm confused as to why this is even part of the conversation.

I do agree, however, that these are not limited to people who simply have that military ideal. As I said, I wear one. I like skulls and I get cold. It has nothing to do with my interest in special ops.

 

[mtnlites]

I used to live in a cold, snowy, windy area and a lot of people had them on just to go out and snowblower. A lot safer than a scarf flipping around.

IMO some have come up with their own POI for BG and they're thus searching for information that will corroborate that person. There are lots of reasons why someone would wear a balaclava, and I mentioned that in my own post, but I don't think those reasons apply to the POI.

It's a dangerous game to only interpret the evidence in a way that only fits the person you think MAY have committed acrime. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

IMO some have come up with their own POI for BG and they're thus searching for information that will corroborate that person. There are lots of reasons why someone would wear a balaclava, and I mentioned that in my own post, but I don't think those reasons apply to the POI.

It's a dangerous game to only interpret the evidence in a way that only fits the person you think MAY have committed acrime. MOO

Yeah, I’m really confused by this whole balaclava thing.

First off, we don’t know if BG had one.

Second off, lots of people wear them.

This reminds me of the whole “runner” thing, which I interpret as someone being identified as a suspect on social media, and then people interpreting the image in order to make it fit.

Square peg. Round hole.

 

[Cryptic]

Cryptic, this is invaluable information, and fodder for another threads worth!

ETA: This profile also reminds me of some online gamer that lost their grip on reality

Thank you for the compliment. I like your possibility of an inherently aggressive gamer who merges fantasy into a horrible reality.

There are evidently on line games in which the players form mafia groups and then try to eliminate each other. One known as 'Mafia wars' is evidently light hearted "tongue in cheek", but others may have graphic imagery, "real world" situations etc. . A gamer would also mesh with the perpertrator's possible younger age.

My city has several stores that sell a variety of elaborate war / scenario games, gaming supplies and also serve as playing clubs for interested teens and adults. Lafayette, Indiana, the relatively large city close to Delphi may well have such a shop. Though it is very possible that a potential gamer perpetrator could game entirely on line, it is possible that he drifted into a gaming store as well.

It might be worth going by such relatively nearby stores to see if the owner or employees noticed a player who was inherently aggressive, boasted about using the games to model reality, or was just plain creepy.

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you for the compliment. I like your possibility of an inherently aggressive gamer who merges fantasy into a horrible reality.

There are evidently on line games in which the players form mafia groups and then try to eliminate each other. One known as 'Mafia wars' is evidently light hearted "tongue in cheek", but others may have graphic imagery, "real world" situations etc. . A gamer would also mesh with the perpertrator's possible younger age.

My city has several stores that sell a variety of elaborate war / scenario games, gaming supplies and also serve as playing clubs for interested teens and adults. Lafayette, Indiana, the relatively large city close to Delphi may well have such a shop. Though it is very possible that a potential gamer perpetrator could game entirely on line, it is possible that he drifted into a gaming store as well.

It might be worth going by such relatively nearby stores to see if the owner or employees noticed a player who was inherently aggressive, boasted about using the games to model reality, or was just plain creepy.

In the Jayme Closs case, I speculated early on that the suspect was former military.

The blitz style assault on the home, lent itself to that possibility.

I served in the Marines, and nothing about Delphi makes me think that this guy has a similar military background or interest.

This guy didn’t stalk them from the woods and blitz them.

He strolled in, and was spotted by several people, to include the girls themselves.

There was some planning here, but this was sloppy.

I see nothing that says “military.”

 

[Cryptic]

Here in Indiana, we also wear them for warmth.

Good point, they are also worn for warmth.

You caught me thinking like a local in my area. Here, nobody truly needs to wear them for warmth, except maybe on a few nights out of the year. As a result, the only people I see wearing balakavas are bikers sporting skull ones. 'Punisher' skull logos, however, are seen far more often.

 

[Boxer]

DBM duplicate