Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[rosesfromangels]

Thank you for the compliment. I like your possibility of an inherently aggressive gamer who merges fantasy into a horrible reality.

There are evidently on line games in which the players form mafia groups and then try to eliminate each other. One known as 'Mafia wars' is evidently light hearted "tongue in cheek", but others may have graphic imagery, "real world" situations etc. . A gamer would also mesh with the perpertrator's possible younger age.

My city has several stores that sell a variety of elaborate war / scenario games, gaming supplies and also serve as playing clubs for interested teens and adults. Lafayette, Indiana, the relatively large city close to Delphi may well have such a shop. Though it is very possible that a potential gamer perpetrator could game entirely on line, it is possible that he drifted into a gaming store as well.

It might be worth going by such relatively nearby stores to see if the owner or employees noticed a player who was inherently aggressive, boasted about using the games to model reality, or was just plain creepy.

Yes. Serious Gamers tend to be bright, multi-dimensional thinkers who through their gaming, have learned how to observe patterns and predictive outcomes, even to see patterns of randomness. Data science if you will.
Useful for many aspects of life, and sadly, for nefarious purposes as well.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Cryptic]

I served in the Marines, and nothing about Delphi makes me think that this guy has a similar military background or interest. There was some planning here, but this was sloppy.

I see nothing that says “military.”

I don't see anything that screams "military" either. If anything, the totality of the crime coupled with a targeted scenario could indicate a "narco" or "crime boss" mentality.

At the same time, one can have military interests and fantasies, but also be horribly unskilled regarding military planning. Such a perpetrator could think like:

- Special Forces guys are tough.
- I have military fantasies and play cool military or mafia games.
- Therefore: I am also tough, deadly and prone to dispense lethal "justice".

 

[MassGuy]

I don't see anything that screams "military" either. If anything, the totality of the crime coupled with a targeted scenario could indicate a "narco" or "crime boss" mentality.

At the same time, one can have military interests and fantasies, but also be horribly unskilled regarding military planning. Such a perpetrator could think like:

- Special Forces guys are tough and some use 'Punisher' logos.
- I have military fantasies and play cool military or mafia games.
- Therefore: I am also tough, deadly and prone to dispense lethal "justice".
- I need to get some Punisher stuff..... .

I think this guy is like so many of those who have come before: a sexual predator who committed murder.

I don’t think his fantasy was “military,” rather, I think it was sexual.

Time will tell.

 

[Boxer]

I think they go where the evidence leads them and there were multiple avenues they were looking at initially.

I don’t think they just started looking at the NBG. IMO they they’ve been looking at him for a while - they just went public with the “new direction” because they need a person to come forward to corroborate something they already know.

Agree. IIRC there was early talk of BOBs and revenge motives. Investigators go where the next logical piece takes them, and if that ends up with resolution they accept, they start over way back down their decision tree and start again.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I don’t see the balaclava. In any case, a little Japanese Chin I dog-sat for also wore skull and crossbones on a little winter coat. I don’t believe she ever had military interests. ;-)

 

[Angelcat13]

Jake Patterson did not serve in the military. He dropped out of bootcamp. He didnt earn the title we did the day we walked across that parade deck and were given our EGA'S.

More importantly, they didnt teach us how to breach a door in bootcamp at all. They *certainly* didn't teach us how to breach alone.

What he did was a matter of surprise, luck, and basic planning. His five weeks in bootcamp weren't a benefit in his assault. His history of being a bootcamp drop-out is nothing more than a matter of his past. Don't associate him with our Corps. He is not one of us.

There is nothing about this (Delphi) attack that could indicate a military background or lack of.

I “liked” your post, however that is not nearly enough. I could “like” it 1,000 times and it still wouldn’t be enough.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart and the entirety of my soul for your service.

 

[MassGuy]

Jake Patterson did not serve in the military. He dropped out of bootcamp. He didnt earn the title we did the day we walked across that parade deck and were given our EGA'S.

More importantly, they didnt teach us how to breach a door in bootcamp at all. They *certainly* didn't teach us how to breach alone.

What he did was a matter of surprise, luck, and basic planning. His five weeks in bootcamp weren't a benefit in his assault. His history of being a bootcamp drop-out is nothing more than a matter of his past. Don't associate him with our Corps. He is not one of us.

There is nothing about this (Delphi) attack that could indicate a military background or lack of.

Oh he was never a Marine, but the attack itself was a reflection of how he saw himself. The reality is irrelevant.

He would have learned no special skills in his brief experience in boot camp, but that didn’t matter in regards to the execution of his crime.

That’s what I was getting at, and what I picked up on in the execution of his act. He was carrying out a fantasy.

I agree, we can’t reach that type of determination in this particular case. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[mtnlites]

I don’t see the balaclava. In any case, a little Japanese Chin I dog-sat for also wore skull and crossbones on a little winter coat. I don’t believe she ever had military interests. ;-)

Yes, but the important question is: was that little winter coat blue?

I'm still not sure where the balaclava convo is coming from. Are people saying they see that in the picture/video? I can't draw any conclusions from something that may or may not exist. That little sliver of white could be almost anything at this point.

 

[mtnlites]

Oh he was never a Marine, but the attack itself was a reflection of how he saw himself. The reality is irrelevant.

He would have learned no special skills in his brief experience in boot camp, but that didn’t matter in regards to the execution of his crime.

That’s what I was getting at, and what I picked up on in the execution of his act. He was carrying out a fantasy.

I agree, we can’t reach that type of determination in this particular case. Maybe, maybe not.

I understand what you're saying. What JP did stands out as one type of fantasy with the whole dramatic blitz attack and outfit that he donned. What we know of his actions seem very different from the way the Delphi girls were killed. Both perhaps carried fantasies of murder, but they were approached in different ways.

 

[carbuff]

Yes, but the important question is: was that little winter coat blue?

I'm still not sure where the balaclava convo is coming from. Are people saying they see that in the picture/video? I can't draw any conclusions from something that may or may not exist. That little sliver of white could be almost anything at this point.

Yeah, some people think they can see it pretty clearly.

I don't see it myself, but it seems a lot more plausible than puppies and goats.

 

[BigTexas]

Seeing various things in the photo/video reminds me of a Rorschach test. For those unfamiliar, it is a test in which people's perceptions of what they see in inkblots are analyzed. A test giver shows the same inkblot picture to different people, and he is going to many different results of what the people see in it.

 

[sunshineray]

I know there are alot of posters here that doubt there is DNA evidence, but what if the DNA evidence is how LE is determining the age range of 18 to 40 years of age?

I was just reading about that last night. I don't think it's very precise yet but it's promising.
"Epigenetic markers are useful not just for determining cell type. They also change as cells age, and the latest research shows that certain sets of markers can be used to predict age within three or four years (above or below) of someone’s actual chronological age. That three to four year buffer is because the way in which our cells age varies among individuals. “Age prediction is really exciting to people in law enforcement,” ...
Going forward, epigenetics might also help predict if a suspect is a smoker, if they drink heavily, or even what their diet is. All of these behaviors leave traces, and it might be possible to predict, say, if a person is a long-time vegetarian by looking at their epigenome."

DNA evidence could soon tell cops your age, whether you smoke, and what you ate for breakfast

 

[sunshineray]

I'm thinking it's significant to have now released the "guys" portion of audio. Why decide to release just that one extra word of BG's voice if not significant? I believe it's part of "trying to ring a bell" for someone. Some one who knows someone who over uses this word in their normal speech.

I think also to show the difference in his voice saying, "Guys" as opposed to saying, "Down the hill". ISP made sure to stress that both of those were the same speaker because they do sound different in the way they were spoken, IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

MOO if he had to get back to his car, one alternative way he could have avoided people on the main trail is to have slipped around on the south side of deer creek back to I25.
There is a proposed trail on the south side shown on the MHB park map.
MOO its already a deer trail foot path.
MOO he could have quickly walked along either the dirt path off the side of I25 or on I25 shoulder itself the last 1/8 mile to walk north back to his car.
MOO the search hadn't happened yet, or was just was just getting started east on 300 by the nature reserve entrance parking.
In early interviews the police were searching for his method of of exit and expressed frustration about it, MOO it is still unknown if they solved out how he left.

I do think he could have been parked at the end of the bridge where he abducted them or even at the cemetery. There were footprints that were followed that led to the bodies so they have to know how he left. If they escaped him then he would have chased and killed them and then returned quickly to his car and left, probably even before DG arrived at 3.15. Leaving plenty of time to clean up, change and turn up to help the search. This had to be the case or he would surely have been seen on the trails, I think. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

Seeing various things in the photo/video reminds me of a Rorschach test. For those unfamiliar, it is a test in which people's perceptions of what they see in inkblots are analyzed. A test giver shows the same inkblot picture to different people, and he is going to many different results of what the people see in it.

I've said the same thing! It's actually really interesting to read what people are seeing in the images. So far I've read: plastic bag handles, balaclava, goggles, respirator, a puppy's head poking out, a goat's head poking out, rope, twine, the handle of a small shovel, zip ties...there have been more, but they're not coming to mind. There have been other things "spotted" in the picture as well, including one person (different forum) who was convinced that straight across from BG a little puppy is dangling off the side of the bridge and is holing onto the edge.

There's probably an interesting study in all this.

At this point it's all just speculation and I'm not invested in any one theory, but I do enjoy reading other people's.

 

[tresir2012]

I think there’s too many variables to draw any conclusions because by the time BP repeated her son’s condensed version of events, the murders were known. For her not to later connect that the sighting of the couple was significant would be really bizarre.

From GH interview, post #211
“He was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older guy, a gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge, and he asked him, “Did you see a couple of girls there?” and he said, “No, but there’s a couple down underneath”. So Derrick, instead of going to the High Bridge, took the trail that went down to the creek to where he said that the couple was there. I don’t even remember if he said he saw them or what but he came walking back up and he called me. That was when he called me – it was about 3:30 – and said, “Libby’s not answering her phone and I don’t see her”.

Well that is strange that she doesn't know if he saw the couple or not, isn't that important enough that she would have asked him later surely, as LE would need to determine who that couple actually were? I also think this is describing the creek area going under the bridge at the opposite end to where the girls were eventually found, if I interpret this correctly. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

I do think he could have been parked at the end of the bridge where he abducted them or even at the cemetery. There were footprints that were followed that led to the bodies so they have to know how he left. If they escaped him then he would have chased and killed them and then returned quickly to his car and left, probably even before DG arrived at 3.15. Leaving plenty of time to clean up, change and turn up to help the search. This had to be the case or he would surely have been seen on the trails, I think. MOO

Do you have a link to the "footsteps" comment? I'm not doubting you at all, several people have referenced it, but for some reason it's not ringing a bell to me. Where did the footprints start?

I do think the cemetery shouldn't be ruled out as a place where he may have parked.

 

[tresir2012]

The Mears Barn was searched, is that what you were thinking of?

Yes, now why search that and not the abandoned CPS building, where someone had parked?

 

[CCJD]

Do you have a link to the "footsteps" comment? I'm not doubting you at all, several people have referenced it, but for some reason it's not ringing a bell to me. Where did the footprints start?

I do think the cemetery shouldn't be ruled out as a place where he may have parked.

This begs the question: who are the "Sources"?

DELPHI TIMELINE | Teens girls go missing, bodies found

Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.

BBM

2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

 

[mtnlites]

Yes, now why search that and not the abandoned CPS building, where someone had parked?

Do we know that they didn't search the building?