Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[tresir2012]

Do you have a link to the "footsteps" comment? I'm not doubting you at all, several people have referenced it, but for some reason it's not ringing a bell to me. Where did the footprints start?

I do think the cemetery shouldn't be ruled out as a place where he may have parked.

I don't know exactly where they started and finished no. But yes the link was posted the last time I mentioned it, probably on the last thread. I'll just try searching for "footprints" and come back and edit.

eta see post 540 on this thread -thanks ccjd

eta 2. "sources" = searchers IMO

 

[mtnlites]

This begs the question: who are the "Sources"?

DELPHI TIMELINE | Teens girls go missing, bodies found

Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.

BBM

2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

Good question. Who are the sources and where did the footprints originate? (Rhetorical questions, I know. I don't expect to find many answers.)

 

[Boxer]

I do think he could have been parked at the end of the bridge where he abducted them or even at the cemetery. There were footprints that were followed that led to the bodies so they have to know how he left. If they escaped him then he would have chased and killed them and then returned quickly to his car and left, probably even before DG arrived at 3.15. Leaving plenty of time to clean up, change and turn up to help the search. This had to be the case or he would surely have been seen on the trails, I think. MOO

Agree. If the crime was thought out in advance a car parked on south side of the bridge was a better place to park.

 

[tresir2012]

<modsnip - rude and bickering>
my opinion is it was never searched and was demolished some time in 2018. Considering the hoo haa over the RL , Mears and BBR searches and the very visible CPS building location, I think it would have been obvious and public knowledge by now if they had ever searched it.

 

[sunshineray]

This article is marked posted in early May and then updated late May this year. BBM things that stood out to me. IMO going back to the beginning sketch led to finding very relevent things overlooked in the volume. New tips were aquired that made a difference in the investigation. AJMO

<snipped by me>
While Sgt. Kim Riley wouldn't give any more details on why police changed the sketch, he said it makes investigators feel closer to catching the killer.

"We just feel this is a more accurate account of what we believe is the possible murder suspect in this Abby and Libby case," said Riley.

However, he said police have received a lot of new information on people who live in the area since releasing the sketch. That's important, because investigators believe the killer has close ties to Delphi.

<snipped by me>

"We're still looking for the car that was parked in the lot," Riley told News 18. "If somebody can give us that information, we want that information as quickly as possible."

The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area.

<snipped by me>

News 18 also asked Riley if there was a chance the killer could be someone police have already interviewed.

"Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'

 

[MistyWaters]

Agree. If the crime was thought out in advance a car parked on south side of the bridge was a better place to park.

And if he parked on the SE end, other than crossing the bridge, could also explain why nobody saw him. Notice on this map the very lowest red dot indicating where blockades were set up? That appears to be at the intersection where the small road continues northward, then underneath the bridge.


Source:
Grandfather of one of murdered Indiana teens speaks out | Daily Mail Online

 

[NonSmokingMan]

Hey guys. Been lurking for a month. Became aware of the case after the April, 2019 press conference. I’m now an obsessive reader of these forums. I’m from Indiana but not close to Delphi and have some limited experience dealing with the communications end of the ISP.

I’ve read the threads and opinions and keep coming back to The Shack reference. Only an opinion obviously, but I believe the PC was 100% scripted. I think, contrary to what I’ve read here, that even the emotion was not impromptu. (I do think that he lost his place a few times and clearly screwed up the date, but that every word and nuance was calculated.) I wonder if that during the investigation, a POI or someone who might know BG, has mentioned The Shack or the plot line. I think this reference was hyper targeted at one person or group of people in hopes of getting a reaction and showing ISP’s change in strategy.

The other (completely out there) thought: the younger suspect may be a bit of a deviant with extreme sexual fantasies and urges. I’ve read on one of the threads that there has been activity at all times of the day/night at the cemetery near the park. Is this a place where people meet for untoward, intimate and secret activities? Did BG frequently go here to meet up and act out his non violent fantasies? Did OBG encounter NBG and hope for an encounter? Was NBG frustrated and needing to act out? Is the car they were inquiring about OBG? Was it some kind of company car? Was it where NBG would sit and watch people thinking of his fantasies? Did BG see these two young girls and act on the opportunity? (Trying not to be graphic, but I think you get where I’m going.)

I’ve read so much here about organized/disorganized killers, BG planning this out, wearing protective clothing, etc. Could it be that this is a frustrated, confused, hyper sexual, preditorial type of personality that couldn’t feed his desires. He sees these two and tries something, but these youth fight back and it escalates to the tragedy that we now know.

Thanks for letting me get this stream of consciousness out. It’s infuriating. This person is a monster. I want him caught before his itch needs scratched again.

 

[Angelcat13]

Yeah, some people think they can see it pretty clearly.

I don't see it myself, but it seems a lot more plausible than puppies and goats.

Not only do I see a puppy, but I can tell it’s a mixed breed - lab/husky with one blue eye.

 

[raja]

Any chance they were deer footprints and that was what led the searcher to look when he saw a couple deer before seeing the girls?

 

[Cutiekitty]

Do you have a link to the "footsteps" comment? I'm not doubting you at all, several people have referenced it, but for some reason it's not ringing a bell to me. Where did the footprints start?

I do think the cemetery shouldn't be ruled out as a place where he may have parked.

BBM - I agree, but I do not think he would’ve been parked there the entire time.

 

[gregjrichards]

Hey guys. Been lurking for a month. Became aware of the case after the April, 2019 press conference. I’m now an obsessive reader of these forums. I’m from Indiana but not close to Delphi and have some limited experience dealing with the communications end of the ISP.

I’ve read the threads and opinions and keep coming back to The Shack reference. Only an opinion obviously, but I believe the PC was 100% scripted. I think, contrary to what I’ve read here, that even the emotion was not impromptu. (I do think that he lost his place a few times and clearly screwed up the date, but that every word and nuance was calculated.) I wonder if that during the investigation, a POI or someone who might know BG, has mentioned The Shack or the plot line. I think this reference was hyper targeted at one person or group of people in hopes of getting a reaction and showing ISP’s change in strategy.

The other (completely out there) thought: the younger suspect may be a bit of a deviant with extreme sexual fantasies and urges. I’ve read on one of the threads that there has been activity at all times of the day/night at the cemetery near the park. Is this a place where people meet for untoward, intimate and secret activities? Did BG frequently go here to meet up and act out his non violent fantasies? Did OBG encounter NBG and hope for an encounter? Was NBG frustrated and needing to act out? Is the car they were inquiring about OBG? Was it some kind of company car? Was it where NBG would sit and watch people thinking of his fantasies? Did BG see these two young girls and act on the opportunity? (Trying not to be graphic, but I think you get where I’m going.)

I’ve read so much here about organized/disorganized killers, BG planning this out, wearing protective clothing, etc. Could it be that this is a frustrated, confused, hyper sexual, preditorial type of personality that couldn’t feed his desires. He sees these two and tries something, but these youth fight back and it escalates to the tragedy that we now know.

Thanks for letting me get this stream of consciousness out. It’s infuriating. This person is a monster. I want him caught before his itch needs scratched again.

Welcome to Websleuths NonSmokingMan thank you for joining us. Great first post!

 

[zencompass]

I am hopeful that the Indiana State Police are interviewed again on the news this week.

It not only keeps the momentum going but keeps this case in the news.

Perhaps someone viewing the case on the national news will have critical information which could lead L.E. to the perpetrator's identity.

 

[zencompass]

Programming note about this case:

ID channel will be airing a story about Abby and Libby the airing date is 6/3 on the ID channel at 11pm (est) the name of the special is Still a Mystery.

Dear @gregjrichards,

Thank you for this notification. Very much appreciated!

 

[Cutiekitty]

On February 23, 2017, there is an article regarding the social media angle and LE stated that there wasn’t one that they had determined at that time. There is also an interview about 6 months into the investigation with, I believe, the case agent with the ISP and he basically says that LE hasn’t been able to establish a SM link. Not sure if I saw this in the media thread or not, but it’s a good interview IMO.

I’ve been looking through the media thread (got to page 20 so far) reading summaries and I don’t see SM mentioned again. I have not watched all of the videos and some of the links are no good now. Do you guys know if LE has stated there was absolutely no SM connection after the February 23rd statement or the ISP case agent interview? I will continue to browse the media thread if not.

 

[mtnlites]

On February 23, 2017, there is an article regarding the social media angle and LE stated that there wasn’t one that they had determined at that time. There is also an interview about 6 months into the investigation with, I believe, the case agent with the ISP and he basically says that LE hasn’t been able to establish a SM link. Not sure if I saw this in the media thread or not, but it’s a good interview IMO.

I’ve been looking through the media thread (got to page 20 so far) reading summaries and I don’t see SM mentioned again. I have not watched all of the videos and some of the links are no good now. Do you guys know if LE has stated there was absolutely no SM connection after the February 23rd statement or the ISP case agent interview? I will continue to browse the media thread if not.

I can only remember seeing the one from the 23rd when, at that point, they'd not found a link. If there's been an update then I missed it.

I know that people have ruminated on the girls' social media followers, but what keeps me from seeing a link between SM and their murders is that the timeframe just seems so tight. There's been nothing released to show that anything was mentioned in their social media about going to the park. It's not even been "leaked" as a rumor. In the beginning, though, I really did think that there would be a connection.

 

[drama_farmer]

Seeing various things in the photo/video reminds me of a Rorschach test. For those unfamiliar, it is a test in which people's perceptions of what they see in inkblots are analyzed. A test giver shows the same inkblot picture to different people, and he is going to many different results of what the people see in it.

It really is a fascinating phenomenon, and provides a window into the viewers' minds, IMO.

Even today, so many years since JFK's assassination, viewers' are seeing new scenarios within the Zapruder film. Some believe the front seat passenger turned around and shot the President, while others see Jackie O removing a gun from nearby to deliver the fatal shot to her husband.

So, as helpful as video evidence may appear to be.... it's a matter of perspective. MOO

 

[Imvp2]

Delete

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah, I’m really confused by this whole balaclava thing.

First off, we don’t know if BG had one.

Second off, lots of people wear them.

This reminds me of the whole “runner” thing, which I interpret as someone being identified as a suspect on social media, and then people interpreting the image in order to make it fit.

Square peg. Round hole.

In the image thread a long time ago it was discussed a lot. The Punisher skull logo possibly being the white thing BG had at his neck that could be pulled up over the face. AFAIK we can still discuss what BG is wearing. I haven't seen anyone relate their comments to any one POI specific. He's got something white at his neck that appears to move. Just because a POI owned a goat, did not stop the goat talk. MOO.

 

[mtnlites]

In my opinion, BG has a black with white skull imprint, balaclava on his neck. It was a mild day back in 2017. He may have owned it previously, but choose to wear it that day to disguise himself if needed

He may well be wearing one, but I can't see such detail in the picture. I see a flash of white which has had much speculation. Some see it as a balaclava, but others see it as something else.

Much as been said about it being a nice day on the 13th and especially that BG was overdressed. 40 degrees isn't mild to me, it's cold. I think the weather is going to be something that's subjective. For me that day was chilly, and it gets especially cold and windy up there on the bridge since there isn't anything to block the breeze.

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks Charlot123! Great information. I’m torn on this issue. I love how this can solve crimes but I also understand the “Big Brother” privacy issues as well. MOO

I would be less concerned about the crime and the Big Btother and more about health privacy. And this is where I would hold all DNA companies accountable.

About the Delphi and LE. Yesterday I read about Russian serial killer Chicatilo and watched the interviews with Bundy and the Green River Killer. I have the feeling now that the Delphi murderer has all the makings of a serial killer.

So if my DNA will help take him off the streets, I’d go with it.

Also, we have enough remnants, some old unclaimed bones, probably left by the same serial killers, because they never acknowledge all cases, or maybe forget with time, and yes, LEs and FBI need to identify these bones, too. Give them names, at least. So a bigger database would help.