Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[allboys]

Yes, I don't know for sure, either. If they had cameras at the trailheads, or something like that, they could say for certain, but I doubt it. The problem is that BG won't come forward, and if nobody on the trails that day saw or recognized him, that avenue is closed.

I think about surveillance footage from around the area, which may not add up to much. Obviously whatever LE has hasn't been enough. And it's so sad that Libby even caught him on camera, and that hasn't been enough.

In the beginning, were there ever appeals from LE for video surveillance from all homes on the roads surrounding trail? (As was done in the Mollie Tibbett’s case)

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[Hot Water]

Actually, when I very first saw the photo, two years ago, my first thought was one of those hunting hat with flaps, too. I still see that. I can make myself see a baseball hat and the hoodie hood down, but that's about it. Too grainy to say for sure.

It is hard to keep up with y'all, threads move fast so forgive me if this has already been hashed out. I have also thought (OBG sketch) he had a hat with the ear flaps down & the "bill" of the hat down giving the "illusion" of hair due to the furry underside (my husband has a rabbit fur lining that he wore when pheasant hunting.) I am baffled by the OBG sketch & the NBG sketch. Could it be 2 men? I have up until now thought it was only One man. I am curious as to what others think.

 

[PaulaDC]

It was never stated by LE that BG was wearing a disguise.
You would be surprised by the amount of men, and women, that carry knives and guns daily for their protection. It doesn’t mean they are murderers carrying a kill kit.

Disguising yourself and wearing a disguise are two different things. I think many are confused by this.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I've wondered from the start if this was a botched abduction but I lean towards it being not if in fact the suspect is as young as some people have speculated. If he was in the 16-20 range at the time of the murders it is quite likely that he was still living at home with his parents, or in a college dorm, or with a roomate or live-in girlfriend. He may simply not have had anywhere private to take the girls. It would have certainly been more risky for him to try to walk them to his vehicle (wherever it was parked)--especially with 2 victims. Once in his vehicle then he would have had the issue of dealing with DNA contamination and cleaning up. Plus it would have been way more risky for a witness to see him together with the girls. And if he had killed them at a secondary location he would have needed to find a place to leave the bodies.

Here is an example of an abduction gone wrong (which is a good thing). This occurred on May 5th of this year in Ardmore, Oklahoma. Here is a link to a story that gives a run-down of what happened (watch the video too). Note I think they turn close captioning by default (at least it was for me) so turn it off if you want.

Attempted kidnapping of female runner under investigation in Ardmore

Now, this is a follow-up story with surveillance video included so watch the video story as well.

Ardmore police release new details, video on attempted kidnapping case

There are a few things to dissect about the latter video, in particular, the way the perp went about setting this abduction attempt up whether it succeeded or not but I will wait on that until some people have had a chance to go through both of the stories and videos and will get into those later but anyone can chime in with their observations.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Since LE said the YTers have things wrong I’m going back and actually watching some of the videos. I only watched parts previously to get an idea of the area or when someone on here referenced something interesting. So far they are pretty consistent with BG catching up to them at the end of the bridge, BG being a stranger, BG having a weapon and crossing the creek.

 

[MuddyTires]

Why would a random killer be dressed in heavy clothing

It's cold in the meat packing plant.

 

[ilovechili]

It is hard to keep up with y'all, threads move fast so forgive me if this has already been hashed out. I have also thought (OBG sketch) he had a hat with the ear flaps down & the "bill" of the hat down giving the "illusion" of hair due to the furry underside (my husband has a rabbit fur lining that he wore when pheasant hunting.) I am baffled by the OBG sketch & the NBG sketch. Could it be 2 men? I have up until now thought it was only One man. I am curious as to what others think.

I agree on the hat with the flaps and I think it explains the front of his head/hair area as well. I can though also picture a backwards ball cap or a hoodie but the hat with flaps is first with me.

I thought the poster the other day, I wish I remembered the name, had one of the best explanations I have heard as to the two sketches. It is so confusing because we were basically told to absolutely forget the first sketch and then a few days later that the person may be a combo of the two??! What do we make of that?

That poster said that the sketch we have now is based on a witness description to the best of ability but maybe the first sketch was based off of the video and while enhancements can't be perfect, there are things to it that probably are or may be accurate. So say the chin or ears were accurate from some FBI or some type of enhancement (just an example, don't necessarily mean those parts) but the second sketch is from an actual eyewitness working with a sketch artist? I am not sure I have this 100 percent right as to what that poster said and I am paraphrasing but it kind of explained it in the best theory I have heard about LE's confusing statements. That poster put it soooo veryyy much better than I just did.

In other words, the guy is sketch number two but because that was witness with sketch artist to best of ability and as close as they could come together to get it right, some things in the other one may be close as well or closer because it may be based on an actual attempt to enhance the video or at least parts of it maybe are clear to them...? I can't put it correctly but I mean maybe for instance the length of chin is more accurate in the first one and they got as close as they could in the sketch of the witness description in the second one, so trade the 1st chin for the 2nd chin as it may be just a bit closer....? I will stop there, that is my best attempt to say what I mean and I FAILED I think. I also think they may have assumed an age as older based on various factors but again, parts could be correct or close from the video.

Others think it could be a father and son or a disguise so he resembles both but again we were told basically to forget the first sketch entirely... I am open to all of these theories. Yet I thought the above one really made sense.

I hope this made some type of sense to at least a few people. That other poster put it far better and my attempt is paraphrasing and I mean even recall it incorrectly.

Jmo.

 

[Hot Water]

I agree on the hat with the flaps and I think it explains the front of his head/hair area as well. I can though also picture a backwards ball cap or a hoodie but the hat with flaps is first with me.

I thought the poster the other day, I wish I remembered the name, had one of the best explanations I have heard as to the two sketches. It is so confusing because we were basically told to absolutely forget the first sketch and then a few days later that the person may be a combo of the two??! What do we make of that?

That poster said that the sketch we have now is based on a witness description to the best of ability but maybe the first sketch was based off of the video and while enhancements can't be perfect, there are things to it that probably are or may be accurate. So say the chin or ears were accurate from some FBI or some type of enhancement (just an example, don't necessarily mean those parts) but the second sketch is from an actual eyewitness working with a sketch artist? I am not sure I have this 100 percent right as to what that poster said and I am paraphrasing but it kind of explained it in the best theory I have heard about LE's confusing statements. That poster put it soooo veryyy much better than I just did.

In other words, the guy is sketch number two but because that was witness with sketch artist to best of ability and as close as they could come together to get it right, some things in the other one may be close as well or closer because it may be based on an actual attempt to enhance the video or at least parts of it maybe are clear to them...? I can't put it correctly but I mean maybe for instance the length of chin is more accurate in the first one and they got as close as they could in the sketch of the witness description in the second one, so trade the 1st chin for the 2nd chin as it may be just a bit closer....? I will stop there, that is my best attempt to say what I mean and I FAILED I think. I also think they may have assumed an age as older based on various factors but again, parts could be correct or close from the video.

Others think it could be a father and son or a disguise so he resembles both but again we were told basically to forget the first sketch entirely... I am open to all of these theories. Yet I thought the above one really made sense.

I hope this made some type of sense to at least a few people. That other poster put it far better and my attempt is paraphrasing and I mean even recall it incorrectly.

Jmo.

The Chin, that is what makes me wonder/think is it a disguise or is it 2 men that are related? Or am I just wanting to see a connection?

 

[ilovechili]

The Chin, that is what makes me wonder/think is it a disguise or is it 2 men that are related? Or am I just wanting to see a connection?

Lol I think we all go through that. Not sure honestly but many things do seem to have stayed the same, height, hair color, etc. If only LE could tell us why...

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've wondered from the start if this was a botched abduction but I lean towards it being not if in fact the suspect is as young as some people have speculated. If he was in the 16-20 range at the time of the murders it is quite likely that he was still living at home with his parents, or in a college dorm, or with a roomate or live-in girlfriend. He may simply not have had anywhere private to take the girls. It would have certainly been more risky for him to try to walk them to his vehicle (wherever it was parked)--especially with 2 victims. Once in his vehicle then he would have had the issue of dealing with DNA contamination and cleaning up. Plus it would have been way more risky for a witness to see him together with the girls. And if he had killed them at a secondary location he would have needed to find a place to leave the bodies.

I don't know, how an older BG would have practiced this abduction, IF it was something like that. But I think, an older BG (looking like NBG) in the age range of end of 20 yo to early 30 yo would have accomplished an abduction far more likely and would have had a more sophisticated plan than someone, who was maybe 18 yo in 2017.
I imagine a perp, who either had years behind him with meticulous planning an abduction plus murder and how to escape without leaving DNA/traces (literature, TV/DVD/Internet incl. the dark part, maybe courses/forums/fairs re crime/forensic, intensive conversation with experts). Or I imagine a perp, who even had already experiences in abduction (inclusive deadly final result for the victims) and had already worked through "successful" without being caught.
If the perp/NBG is around 30 yo, he would have had time to experience college and work life, earning money, acquiring driving licences, on his career way collecting connections, collecting knowledge of (interstate) travelling, knowledge of geography (parks/woods/trails/railways/mountains/creeks/rivers/ponds/highways/airports).
I think, a perp with an educational background like that would more be able, to abduct his victims, to murder them and to escape unrecognized - and living his further life "in plain sight" within his community.
All MOO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The only scenario I could think of for him to stick around is close family, close friends, maybe active in the community or works close by. If he left the area, it with throw up huge red flags. Personally, I think he’s long gone.

If his action circle in his daily life is wide enough, he hasn't to go (flee) anywhere perhaps. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I like a lot of your thoughts, but I would guess if this was a planned abduction, he would not park at CPS building. Too visible to load up two girls. JMO.

Innocently parking "in plain sight" and "have a little walk for the healthiness" would be also a method perhaps. Especially naughty, but who knows ....

 

[insearchoflight]

MOO

Abby and Libby are crossing the bridge as Libby is filming in selfie mode video. She captures BG behind them by chance because he is walking on the bridge following them. The video is BG a far distance from them. They get to the end of the bridge and have no where to really go so they wait for BG to finish crossing so they can then cross back to where they came. So far, no real danger. So BG crosses and they let him pass and then make their way back on the bridge to cross back to where they started. Then they notice BG crossing back too where then they realize hey look it’s that guy again. Ok now danger. Libby starts recording audio but conceals the phone in her pocket. They now realize they are being followed. He catches up to them towards the end of the bridge (now they are back on the side where they first started).

“Hey guys... this bridge is far too unstable for children to cross. You know you shouldn’t be here. I’m going to have to escort you back away from this bridge. C’mon. Guys, down the hill.”

They never had to cross the creek.

He then does a rapid and unexpected attack hitting one girl over the head to knock her out. Perhaps with a gun or object from his coat. One girl is unconscious. He can then control the other girl by threatening to hit her friend again if she doesn’t comply. A sexual assault ensues and strangulation. After he attacks first girl again to be sure they are both deceased. Leaving them right where the attack took place.

They have DNA but so far he’s not a match to any criminal in the system.

He panics a little every time he hears of a criminal being caught due to familial dna because this is ultimately how he will be caught.

I only hope it’s before he offends again.

Total speculation that may change again tomorrow... all MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It’s so hard to imagine she kept her back to him for very long

... but very clever and refined by Libby.

 

[sunshineray]

MOO

Abby and Libby are crossing the bridge as Libby is filming in selfie mode video. She captures BG behind them by chance because he is walking on the bridge following them. The video is BG a far distance from them. They get to the end of the bridge and have no where to really go so they wait for BG to finish crossing so they can then cross back to where they came. So far, no real danger. So BG crosses and they let him pass and then make their way back on the bridge to cross back to where they started. Then they notice BG crossing back too where then they realize hey look it’s that guy again. Ok now danger. Libby starts recording audio but conceals the phone in her pocket. They now realize they are being followed. He catches up to them towards the end of the bridge (now they are back on the side where they first started).

“Hey guys... this bridge is far too unstable for children to cross. You know you shouldn’t be here. I’m going to have to escort you back away from this bridge. C’mon. Guys, down the hill.”

They never had to cross the creek.

He then does a rapid and unexpected attack hitting one girl over the head to knock her out. Perhaps with a gun or object from his coat. One girl is unconscious. He can then control the other girl by threatening to hit her friend again if she doesn’t comply. A sexual assault ensues and strangulation. After he attacks first girl again to be sure they are both deceased. Leaving them right where the attack took place.

They have DNA but so far he’s not a match to any criminal in the system.

He panics a little every time he hears of a criminal being caught due to familial dna because this is ultimately how he will be caught.

I only hope it’s before he offends again.

Total speculation that may change again tomorrow... all MOO

In that show that aired not long ago on Investigation Discovery channel called "Still a Mystery: Down the Hill, Abby's mother comments on listening to the girls talking at the end of the bridge. Abby was heard saying (paraphrasing) can't we keep going this way away from the bridge while Libby was saying but the trail ends here. So it seems to me they were very uneasy about BG approaching them and were not wanting him near them. It breaks the heart to think Abby's inner alarm was going off and they convinced themselves to just wait to recross the bridge instead of running through the woods away, making their own path.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

 

[Boxer]

It's cold inhale the meat packing plant.

Found clothes in a shed or left by a worker, or someone and idea came to the killer that it was a perfect way to be disguised.

 

[ZZbball22]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. Just joined but have been following other cases for a while. After reading through a few different cases, I noticed this one has more information then I remember. I took a screenshot of part of the BG video and was wondering if it's permissible to post it here along with my analysis of what I think, as I know the image discussion thread is now closed and I am late to the party. I am not sure if I have anything new to point out but I certainly have a fresh set of eyes.

 

[kkdj]

Hey everyone. This is my first post. Just joined but have been following other cases for a while. After reading through a few different cases, I noticed this one has more information then I remember. I took a screenshot of part of the BG video and was wondering if it's permissible to post it here along with my analysis of what I think, as I know the image discussion thread is now closed and I am late to the party. I am not sure if I have anything new to point out but I certainly have a fresh set of eyes.

Yes. Looking forward to hearing your analysis.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

In that show that aired not long ago on Investigation Discovery channel called "Still a Mystery: Down the Hill, Abby's mother comments on listening to the girls talking at the end of the bridge. Abby was heard saying (paraphrasing) can't we keep going this way away from the bridge while Libby was saying but the trail ends here. So it seems to me they were very uneasy about BG approaching them and were not wanting him near them. It breaks the heart to think Abby's inner alarm was going off and they convinced themselves to just wait to recross the bridge instead of running through the woods away, making their own path.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

Very sad, to think of these sweet teenage girls feeling have been trapped. Did they think, they wouldn't be in time at the arranged meeting point with DG and therefore shouldn't go further away? If they had great fear, an as private declared property shouldn't have been a barrier to them? Why no call to DG/MP/police? Did they think, they would never again allowed to go there in the future, if they would have called? - Poor, poor girls.