Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[kkdj]

Very sad, to think of these sweet teenage girls feeling have been trapped. Did they think, they wouldn't be in time at the arranged meeting point with DG and therefore shouldn't go further away? If they had great fear, an as private declared property shouldn't have been a barrier to them? Why no call to DG/MP/police? Did they think, they would never again allowed to go there in the future, if they would have called? - Poor, poor girls.

I doubt this. I think if they could have called they would have. jmo

 

[ZZbball22]

Alright here goes. Not sure if I've done this correctly.



I apologize for the lower quality and screenshot with the play button. I have viewed the video multiple times, while holding my phone from all angles and looked at different points by pausing and capturing screenshots. It's as close as a frame by frame as I could get. I realize this may further distort or cause artifact impressions that simply are not there, I've done my best to track each of these points throughout the video. So here goes...

Purple arrow imo, shows a spot that looks a lot like Male pattern baldness or perhaps an over pronounced cow lick. I believe this has been pointed out previously. There are other explanations such as the dimple at the top of a hat or hoodie but onto the next arrow.

Blue arrow appears to show a "part" in his hair hanging down over his face. I say this because of the appearance of the shadow on one side specifically and the lightness to the left, imo it would be hard to create that effect with a hood but perhaps a hat with a visor.

Yellow arrow imo points to a goatee and/or mustache. Its difficult to discern what it may actually be such as a shadow or just low quality filming but it appears to extend to the part of his face that is directly in the sunlight. Also it appears to follow his movements in a stationary way.

Red arrow to me shows his ear. This white spot seems to be in the area where we'd expect to see an ear, if uncovered by hair/hood/hat with flaps. It appears throughout the frames.

Black arrows and green arrows to me indicate that one of his arm is raise more than the other. It seems to me his left hand is in his jeans pocket and his right hand is either in his coat pocket or inside the brown cloth hanging down. Either way it seems he has his hands in different pockets based on how his right elbow is splayed more than his right. Which can be shown by the green arrows.

This brings me to the white arrow which points to some kind of brown cloth which is hanging out from below his jacket. I am only pointing this out because it's on the same side as his right arm which looks to be in a different position than his left. It doesn't appear to come out of the top of his jacket as the upper portion looks to be a light color. I could surmise that a weapon was being concealed or a heavy object was protruding from under his clothing.

As far as the video goes I'd also like to say that he appears to look up and in the direction of the recording while simultaneously bringing his right foot across his left as he appears to turn in that direction. Which leads me to believe this may be the moment when the phone is put away and perhaps when the voice can be heard.

I would like to note that the appearance of a hood or hat could be explained by a gust of wind blowing or even a slight breeze combined with his walking speed could have created an illusion. I too seen the discrepancy between his head being covered by a hood or hat but based on what appears in this video and what I have literally pointed out makes me feel that I may be onto something.

Thanks for reading and I apologize if I covered something that's been covered before, as I haven't gotten into the specifics of the case and its proceedings up to date. This is my first real post and the reason I joined. So feel free to let me know if I have missed something or erred in any way.!

 

[tresir2012]

I know there have been a lot of posts about maps, what route BG and the girls took and why, etc. Not being from the area and just looking at a map it's really hard to tell why someone did what they did, the actual distance, etc. So I was playing around on Google Maps and the Delphi County Property Map this afternoon and wanted to share my thoughts. All of this is IMO.

If BG parked in the former CPS lot, why there instead of one of the trail parking lots? He was likely there to commit a crime so he certainly wouldn't want to park in one of the trail lots since they are very small and any vehicle would likely be noticed/remembered.

Why the CPS lot instead of the Delphi Cemetery? Some reports have mentioned that there was a vehicle parked at the Cemetery and that LE made contact with the owner(s) of the vehicle immediately after the girls' bodies were found so the vehicle could be removed from the Cemetery lot. I'm not sure if the vehicle had broken down or why it was parked there, but it seemed LE didn't feel it had anything to do with the crime. So if BG thought about parking at the Cemetery he likely changed his mind because this vehicle was there and he would have been afraid of being noticed.

Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to the bridge/trail)? The car may not have been noticed here and, even if someone did notice it, they would have been more likely to assume it was someone checking out the building or related to one of the nearby businesses.

Why park at the CPS lot (in relation to "get around quickly")? The CPS Building is easily accessible to the Hoosier Heartland Highway (Route 25) - 0.7 miles (2 minutes).

A WLFI News report said the following information was from ISP Sgt. Kim Riley - "The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area."

I think being able to "get around quickly" was important to BG so he could try to maintain an alibi (and to not get caught).

Walking Distances (approximate) -
CPS Building to 1st Trail Lot (not where the girls were dropped off) - 976 ft (0.18 mi)
1st Trail Lot to Monon High Bridge (far side) - 3554 ft (0.67 mi)
Monon High Bridge (far side) to Crime Scene - 646 ft (0.12 mi)
Crime Scene to CPS Building (path through woods, NOT direct path) - 5014 (0.95 mi)

End of the bridge to Crime Scene to CPS Bldg - 1.07 miles
Total "round trip" - 1.92 miles


I have never been 100% convinced whether BG intended to kill the girls in the bridge area or if he intended to abduct them in order to have more time with them before he killed them. The distance from the end of the bridge to the approximate Crime Scene and back to the CPS Building (walking through the woods in order to remain hidden) is about 1.07 miles - not really that much of a distance if you are cocky and think you are in control of two young girls (with or without a weapon). If he did intend to abduct them, he may have been scared and quickly killed them if he may have heard Libby's phone ring and/or heard DG's voice calling for the girls.

If the perp did park in the CPS lot then I think it could be in a vehicle that would be unnoticeable, like a works truck or a highway maintenance vehicle or public vehicle. Also, it has been stated that it is not unusual for that lot to be used for parking for the trail. It is on the same side of the highway for the trails and would also be convenient for locals living on the east side of the highway IMO.

 

[kkdj]

Alright here goes. Not sure if I've done this correctly.

View attachment 190295

I apologize for the lower quality and screenshot with the play button. I have viewed the video multiple times, while holding my phone from all angles and looked at different points by pausing and capturing screenshots. It's as close as a frame by frame as I could get. I realize this may further distort or cause artifact impressions that simply are not there, I've done my best to track each of these points throughout the video. So here goes...

Purple arrow imo, shows a spot that looks a lot like Male pattern baldness or perhaps an over pronounced cow lick. I believe this has been pointed out previously. There are other explanations such as the dimple at the top of a hat or hoodie but onto the next arrow.

Blue arrow appears to show a "part" in his hair hanging down over his face. I say this because of the appearance of the shadow on one side specifically and the lightness to the left, imo it would be hard to create that effect with a hood but perhaps a hat with a visor.

Yellow arrow imo points to a goatee and/or mustache. Its difficult to discern what it may actually be such as a shadow or just low quality filming but it appears to extend to the part of his face that is directly in the sunlight. Also it appears to follow his movements in a stationary way.

Red arrow to me shows his ear. This white spot seems to be in the area where we'd expect to see an ear, if uncovered by hair/hood/hat with flaps. It appears throughout the frames.

Black arrows and green arrows to me indicate that one of his arm is raise more than the other. It seems to me his left hand is in his jeans pocket and his right hand is either in his coat pocket or inside the brown cloth hanging down. Either way it seems he has his hands in different pockets based on how his right elbow is splayed more than his right. Which can be shown by the green arrows.

This brings me to the white arrow which points to some kind of brown cloth which is hanging out from below his jacket. I am only pointing this out because it's on the same side as his right arm which looks to be in a different position than his left. It doesn't appear to come out of the top of his jacket as the upper portion looks to be a light color. I could surmise that a weapon was being concealed or a heavy object was protruding from under his clothing.

As far as the video goes I'd also like to say that he appears to look up and in the direction of the recording while simultaneously bringing his right foot across his left as he appears to turn in that direction. Which leads me to believe this may be the moment when the phone is put away and perhaps when the voice can be heard.

I would like to note that the appearance of a hood or hat could be explained by a gust of wind blowing or even a slight breeze combined with his walking speed could have created an illusion. I too seen the discrepancy between his head being covered by a hood or hat but based on what appears in this video and what I have literally pointed out makes me feel that I may be onto something.

Thanks for reading and I apologize if I covered something that's been covered before, as I haven't gotten into the specifics of the case and its proceedings up to date. This is my first real post and the reason I joined. So feel free to let me know if I have missed something or erred in any way.!

Thank you for your very well thought out and delivered post! You did a great job imo.
Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[tresir2012]

Nothing about your statement is actually wrong.

Been thinking about what LE said about inaccuracies a lot. The only actual facts LE has released are the girls were dropped off around 1pm, the video, the audio, they were found about 1/2 mile upstream from the bridge, and they were found about 12:15 on the 14th. Everything else in online forums and the YT re-enactments is speculation. It can’t all be wrong because there are so many theories.

One other thing they have said is the murders happened within minutes of the video so we have theorised 59 minutes from 2.30p.m. which is not long enough for them to have been abducted and then brought back to the cemetery side of the creek IMO. So if the reenactments are wrong, which show the girls crossing the creek AFAIK, then were they killed or knocked out on the south side then taken across the creek to be hidden?

 

[ZZbball22]

Thank you. I am looking forward to hear what everyone has to say. The reason I felt compelled to make a post after watching the video was that I felt like it may have needed a look with new eyes, it seemed to me there was a bit of analysis paralysis and I was in a position to view the video without many preconceived notions. Who knows? Perhaps what I have described and pointed out may ring a bell for someone, somewhere. That would be my hope at least.

 

[tresir2012]

It is hard to keep up with y'all, threads move fast so forgive me if this has already been hashed out. I have also thought (OBG sketch) he had a hat with the ear flaps down & the "bill" of the hat down giving the "illusion" of hair due to the furry underside (my husband has a rabbit fur lining that he wore when pheasant hunting.) I am baffled by the OBG sketch & the NBG sketch. Could it be 2 men? I have up until now thought it was only One man. I am curious as to what others think.

They are two different men I believe based on what LE have said. They said OBG is no longer a POI and NBG is the face and voice of the person caught in Libby's video/audio. This means we have a young looking person 18-40 with an authoritative voice, long chin, 5'6 - 5'10, 180lbs IIRC. But his looks will probably now have changed. Eg. Beard, shaved head, weight gain. MOO

 

[Jax49]

Thank you. I am looking forward to hear what everyone has to say. The reason I felt compelled to make a post after watching the video was that I felt like it may have needed a look with new eyes, it seemed to me there was a bit of analysis paralysis and I was in a position to view the video without many preconceived notions. Who knows? Perhaps what I have described and pointed out may ring a bell for someone, somewhere. That would be my hope at least.

Hi ZZ and welcome to WS.

Maybe someone should start a "hat or hair?" poll. I'm in the hat category. moo

 

[tresir2012]

It's cold in the meat packing plant.

Ha ha - so right. But I think LE checked out IP - a lot of RSO's work there IIRC.

 

[tresir2012]

Hi ZZ and welcome to WS.

Maybe someone should start a "hat or hair?" poll. I'm in the hat category. moo

Hey like my post if you think it's a hat.

 

[tresir2012]

Like this post if you think it's hair.

 

[tresir2012]

Or like this post if you think it is a hoodie.

 

[tresir2012]

MOO

Abby and Libby are crossing the bridge as Libby is filming in selfie mode video. She captures BG behind them by chance because he is walking on the bridge following them. The video is BG a far distance from them. They get to the end of the bridge and have no where to really go so they wait for BG to finish crossing so they can then cross back to where they came. So far, no real danger. So BG crosses and they let him pass and then make their way back on the bridge to cross back to where they started. Then they notice BG crossing back too where then they realize hey look it’s that guy again. Ok now danger. Libby starts recording audio but conceals the phone in her pocket. They now realize they are being followed. He catches up to them towards the end of the bridge (now they are back on the side where they first started).

“Hey guys... this bridge is far too unstable for children to cross. You know you shouldn’t be here. I’m going to have to escort you back away from this bridge. C’mon. Guys, down the hill.”

They never had to cross the creek.

He then does a rapid and unexpected attack hitting one girl over the head to knock her out. Perhaps with a gun or object from his coat. One girl is unconscious. He can then control the other girl by threatening to hit her friend again if she doesn’t comply. A sexual assault ensues and strangulation. After he attacks first girl again to be sure they are both deceased. Leaving them right where the attack took place.

They have DNA but so far he’s not a match to any criminal in the system.

He panics a little every time he hears of a criminal being caught due to familial dna because this is ultimately how he will be caught.

I only hope it’s before he offends again.

Total speculation that may change again tomorrow... all MOO

Have to say, that is a good theory.

 

[Jax49]

Or like this post if you think it is a hoodie.

Well, I'm not sure what the covering is, just my opinion hair isn't visible.

 

[Jax49]

Have to say, that is a good theory.

Except, we have LE saying they crossed the creek. moo

 

[ZZbball22]

I feel like I may have reignited something here, which is what I was worried about. I would appreciate it if you could comment on the entirety of my analysis, as I believe I have presented other things of interest.

 

[tresir2012]

Except, we have LE saying they crossed the creek. moo

Sgt Holman right ?- in the same interview that discussed OBG sketch IIRC? Will have to go back and recap that. If the reenactments are wrong and they cross the creek in the reenactments then what is wrong with them? That they do not cross the creek alive? He kills them on the south side then takes them across perhaps. Horrible to think about but perhaps that's it. Holeman was cagey regarding that point but will go back and check.
MOO.

 

[Jax49]

Sgt Holman right ?- in the same interview that discussed OBG sketch IIRC? Will have to go back and recap that. If the reenactments are wrong and they cross the creek in the reenactments then what is wrong with them? That they do not cross the creek alive? He kills them on the south side then takes them across perhaps. Horrible to think about but perhaps that's it. Holeman was cagey regarding that point but will go back and check.
MOO.

Yes, Holeman. My understanding, he believes they crossed the creek before being killed. I'm lost as to what is "wrong". Still scratching my head over that one. moo

For anyone interested, here's the interview. Start about the 10:00 mark.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[tresir2012]

I feel like I may have reignited something here, which is what I was worried about. I would appreciate it if you could comment on the entirety of my analysis, as I believe I have presented other things of interest.

Welcome to WS. No worries, everyone's opinions are encouraged and it is a discussion forum. LE originally stated he was wearing a hoodie and a fanny pack IIRC.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, Holeman. My understanding, he believes they crossed the creek before being killed. I'm lost as to what is "wrong". Still scratching my head over that one. moo

For anyone interested, here's the interview. Start about the 10:00 mark.

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

Thanks again Jax. I think there's a transcript in the media thread too.