Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[JnRyan]

I’m talking about criminal history information - Scottsdale PD wasn’t sharing that with NCIC/nationally?

From the article I read - and I'm trying to find it again - they were not entering data in the national database.

 

[JnRyan]

I lean towards this being his first time, but I'm admittedly not well-versed in serial killers. I guess I lean that way because they think he's local, yet no other local crimes prior to these murders stand out as a connection, and because the girls were found so soon after they were murdered, and the risks involved in committing the crime in a relatively public place, and within a fairly short time frame.

It's not my solid stance. It's fluid. In part because I don't know if murder was even the initial motive, or an outcome of something going wrong.

I can see that. One problem I see is what if he did this before or since and he was successful in abducting a girl. And maybe it happened 100, 2oo or more miles away. And he killed her in the same manner as Abigail and Liberty, but her body has not been found. LE has no link.

Yeah, a lot of times I look at this and this is his first time. Not my solid stance either.

 

[tresir2012]

I had in mind the original reporter's quote not the scanner (which we cannot discuss)

I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby

Abby had a pink top and Libby had a tie died fringed top, which is what was described on the LE poster IIRC. Those colours would show up IMO especially in Feb without much greenery or flowers around.

ETA If I could find the LE poster mentioning the clothes and shoes, I would post it but I haven't found it yet, still looking.

This is the WLF1 TV video that has the description of the clothes for both girls and mentions Libby wearing black Nikes. The searchers talking from 1.45 on included the guy who says vic/girls and describes looking in ravines, ditches, trash cans and something else that I cannot distinguish. This also has MP talking about the pinging phone.

 

[Falling Down]

Occasionally I post reference/FYI stuff about the general area around the MHB. I'm kind of an industrial artifact junkie as it is, so the bridge (which I've never been right to, but plan to visit one of these days), is interesting to me. Most states would have torn it down a long time ago, however I think the preservation fervor regarding it is strong enough here in Indiana to where it will be preserved, and greatly upgraded, in the coming years.

It's become terribly overgrown along there since abandonment by CSX transportation 30 years ago. I've seen before-and-after pictures of many railroad properties in recent years, and it's amazing to me to see what it looked like decades ago.

Two things which stick out to me from archived aerial photos are the quarry below the cemetery, mere feet from where A&L were found, and something I stumbled across over the weekend, a house at the end of the now-trail in the Gerard Nature Reserve. I'd wondered how the lower trail came to be, well it turns out it was a driveway, probably dirt, from the county road down to the edge of the creek, many years ago. Just thought this might be of interest. If you search that area for the 1960 aerial photos on that site, you can see the vegetation was way down from where it is, now, in fact there wasn't any in spots around the bridge.

I've wondered if BG has any connections to the properties along there...

 

[userunnamed]

Could a mod familiar with this case PM me? I have some photos I want to post but I don't want to break any rules. Not crime scene photos or anything like that.

 

[userunnamed]

I'm not sure if it's possible to Edit a post here with an update, but I wanted to let anyone know watching, that I've been in contact with a mod, and I am waiting for a response. Sorry for double posting.

 

[rainwaterstill]

More info. This report states that only 15% of unidentified remains are entered in NCIC. Why? LE agencies state they don't have the time or resources to enter the data. It also goes on to state that many LE agencies are not familiar with NCIC and the other FBI databases such as ViCAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program, which BTW does NOT interface with NCIC in spite of the fact that the FBI runs both).
Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains: The Nation’s Silent Mass Disaster

MOO- to me, entering data in a database could easily be done by volunteers who have been trained and screened.

 

[missmargot]

I was reading up on another case this morning which made me wonder whether a profile has ever been shared for BG? I realise people have mixed views on the accuracy of them and therefore the importance of having one, but I’d be interested to read on if it existed.

 

[rosesfromangels]

MOO- to me, entering data in a database could easily be done by volunteers who have been trained and screened.

No resources to train and screen them. That’s a huge project in itself. It’s a disgrace the thin resources LE is given.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[stg]

I was reading up on another case this morning which made me wonder whether a profile has ever been shared for BG? I realise people have mixed views on the accuracy of them and therefore the importance of having one, but I’d be interested to read on if it existed.

No official profile was ever released by LE.

 

[Justice101]

Following....

 

[Justice101]

I had in mind the original reporter's quote not the scanner (which we cannot discuss)

I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby

Abby had a pink top and Libby had a tie died fringed top, which is what was described on the LE poster IIRC. Those colours would show up IMO especially in Feb without much greenery or flowers around.

ETA If I could find the LE poster mentioning the clothes and shoes, I would post it but I haven't found it yet, still looking.

But I recall in the early aerial helicopter video by news crew circling the crime scene with the hundred LE there investigating, that there were clothes in the water hanging on some branches, but it looked old and dull and was mixed in with some trash bags, etc. I don't personally think that this video could be the real evidence of clothes in the water. Unless confirmed thru another source, did not look like this was it. And besides, all of the LE in the actual water scanning the bottom, were completely ignoring the clothes on that branch.

 

[crussell821]

That how my group were addressed growing up, my Dad would say "Ladies". I also heard "Girls". "Guys" was used between us or if we were talking to our age group of guys. It was also used by teachers sometimes trying to get a hold of a classroom but then I think I heard "People" more than "Guys". Could just be my period in time type thing and using "Guys" for two female is just the norm now. It seems a little odd to me also, BG saying "Guys".

I’m not sure of the age groups of everyone here, but I am a 37 year old female and I call my friends ‘guys’ in groups. For people my age it’s extremely common.

 

[SilentRogue]

I’m not sure of the age groups of everyone here, but I am a 37 year old female and I call my friends ‘guys’ in groups. For people my age it’s extremely common.

I'm a 28 year old Male and I commonly refer to groups of 2, including my partner and my daughter, as guys. "Are you guys ready yet?", "What do you guys want for dinner?", "Guys, please hurry. I really have to go to the bathroom..."

 

[Blue Amethyst]

bbm

In my opinion the shoe was a "stock picture", not her real shoe. Same with the phone they showed. They insinuated those two items were related to the crime, but never actually made that claim. moo

I have always wondered if they found the shoe separately or if it was seen whilst still on her foot poking out through grass and leaves.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

Yet another theory this suspect is also known to at least one of the girls and possibly both. He has a very distinctive chin and is the youngest of my suspects. This person may kill again because his motive was not the same as my first 2 suspects. Again DNA could be easily explained away unless there was a sexual assault leaving DNA behind. Moo

Thank you for posting your theories. I find they are all so interesting to read. One I have is that a young man or men saw OBG days or weeks prior to the murder. <modsnip - Facebook rumor>. Could one of them have dressed the same and framed him by dressing like him and committing the murder? Is that how we got an OBG and a YBG?

 

[BradB]

Even for a predator you have a set of balls to attack not one but two in that area. Two changes everything. It either means he did this before and somehow by some miracle hasnt been caught which I highly doubt because it is too brazen or he knew them or knew of them and it was a planned hit.

 

[tresir2012]

Even for a predator you have a set of balls to attack not one but two in that area. Two changes everything. It either means he did this before and somehow by some miracle hasnt been caught which I highly doubt because it is too brazen or he knew them or knew of them and it was a planned hit.

or he had an accomplice who did not get recorded. MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not sure of the age groups of everyone here, but I am a 37 year old female and I call my friends ‘guys’ in groups. For people my age it’s extremely common.

Yes I also address my friends like that sometimes. I just know when I was 13-14, an adult man, unless he was a teacher in a classroom or a Summer camp counselor etc...wouldn't have addressed my girlfriend and I as "Guys". I would have expected a "Girls" or "Ladies" but then I never, thank God, ran across a man with murder on his mind. You're right though, it could just be that I'm a child of the 60's and 70's and language was different then.

 

[Justice101]

Yes I also address my friends like that sometimes. I just know when I was 13-14, an adult man, unless he was a teacher in a classroom or a Summer camp counselor etc...wouldn't have addressed my girlfriend and I as "Guys". I would have expected a "Girls" or "Ladies" but then I never, thank God, ran across a man with murder on his mind. You're right though, it could just be that I'm a child of the 60's and 70's and language was different then.

Yep, I agree. Having lived both in the South and in the North...the only person I think we can rule out is someone who grew up in the South or the far Northeast. Southerners never say "Guys" - always, "Y'all" and true Yankees say "Youse Guys" or even "You-ens"... . So Indiana is midwestern so I am guessing Guys is pretty common practice. In the audio, there is no distinct southern drawl or northern "Mennisoda" accent. This guy is probably local within a state's radius.