Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[Snoop Sister]

Does anyone else think this is a close to home situation? family? friend of a family member?

I don’t think it was a family member but possibly someone known to the family.

 

[Jax49]

Please Provide A Link With Info Or Proof They Found Clothing In The River

References to "clothing in the creek" are based on the scanner thread and a local news photographer's facebook post. moo

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe. Hopefully we will know soon.

It could just be that the trail ended there. It they were on the south end of the bridge it’s not like there was a wall creating an impenetrable barrier. They could’ve just gone around the barricade or voluntarily down the hill to the service road.

Anna said you can’t really know what their thoughts were because you can’t see or hear anything else and she actually heard more audio. If they were hysterical and panicked by BGs approach you’d think she’d have picked up on that and maybe said something in the interview - she’s actually very open about things.

I agree she's very open and her emotions are on her face. To me, she did seem to stop herself a couple times from elaborating. I could see her change her mind mid thought. I can't fathom her pain, her heartache. God Bless the family members and help them with their heavy hearts.

 

[sunshineray]

Of course this is only an opinion, but I get the idea that LE has *some* DNA but it’s not enough to use well in the investigation.

What I mean is, they may have a sample that will be able to be used once they have a suspect - they can see if it matches. But, the sample may be too small to use for any other investigative techniques such as forensic genealogy, etc.

If they had a good enough sample I bet they would have taken it to Parabon Nanolabs because they’re the best. Wouldn’t that be amazing if they could do that? I bet with one of their profiles and the photos/audio they already have, it might actually find a suspect.

The Sheriff did do an interview in December about DNA testing.

Cops Send Evidence To FBI In Indiana Teens Abigail Williams & Liberty German’s Murder

 

[PaulaDC]

Please Provide A Link With Info Or Proof They Found Clothing In The River

Copied from thread 31

Jax49Florida Native
↑
I don't recall that the incident was ever even confirmed. I thought it was just one of many rumors.

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Here is a link to the photographer's comment regarding seeing girls clothing in Deer Creek. And the comment for those who don't do FB. BBM

J Kyle Keener

IT HAS BEEN A TRAGIC DAY IN CARROLL COUNTY, INDIANA, the scene of a double murder. One thing they never teach you in journalism school is how creepy it feels to have to cover a homicide. For several hours I photographed the search for two missing 13-year-old girls. This type of endeavor is stressful for the searchers, the first responders and also the media at the scene. Detectives found the bodies of two missing teens near a rural hiking trail below the abandoned Monon high railroad bridge. The bridge itself in incredibly beautiful making it difficult to witness a horrific murder scene so nearby. From 75-yards away I could see girls clothing in Deer Creek east of the bridge and knew full well that the girls where found very nearby. To walk in a place that a murderer had walked only a handful of hours earlier is extremely upsetting, but as journalists it is part of the business that simply needs done to tell the news of our area. Photos by J. Kyle Keener / Pharos-Tribune copyright 2017

Mar 18, 2017Report
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[mtnlites]

Does anyone else think this is a close to home situation? family? friend of a family member?

I don't. I think one of the reasons why this has been so difficult to solve is because it was a stranger murder. If DNA does exist then that would've eliminated quite a few people. In these kinds of cases, LE starts close to the victim and then fans out to a broader base. I feel very strongly that the people close to Abby and Libby were the first ones to be looked at. I think this was a stranger killing, or possibly a thwarted abduction, and that the girls were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why these two girls and not any of the other females in the park? It could be something as simple as he saw them first and thought that two little girls would be easy targets. He was wrong; they didn't go down without some action on their part.

 

[Spartygirl]

I still think it could have been an abduction in a vehicle and around to the cemetery, then him directing them down the hill to the crime scene. The"Guys" bit is at the bridge end and the down the hill is at the cemetery. He could still have murdered them within minutes and be gone from the cemetery before 3.30 and then return to help in the search at 5.30 p.m. IMO

Well, anyone that knows me in FB groups and here, Knows that I am obsessed with the cemetery angle. I dont know why or how, but I feel it is an important area regarding this case. I went there, I parked there, I took pics, and even being there, it made my feeling even stronger. The cemetery has something to do with this case, somehow. JMO

 

[insearchoflight]

Does anyone else think this is a close to home situation? family? friend of a family member?

I don’t because I think they would recognize him from the video/audio. I also think Abby and Libby would have recognized him and that wouldn’t have cause for them to start recording him.

 

[Spartygirl]

In the trunk or went willingly if he was a coach or LE or ?

Holman is saying it is similar to Iowa. We know the Iowa girls were abducted in a vehicle because of the distance. That has to be one of few similarities because there was no cause of death in that case because of their decomposition. MOO.

I dont remember what kind of vehicle that was?? Can you remind me, please ??

 

[sunshineray]

Really interesting speculation.
I think it’s possible he had an accomplice. I have struggled with the term “guys” directed at two girls, despite many saying it’s normal terminology and not gender specific.

I just finished reading some serial killer studies by Jennifer Chase, and it jumped out that most SK’s are white, 20-30, and kill in very familiar territory. Lines up. Good info in this article:

My Pick of 13 Interesting Facts about Serial Killers

Amateur opinion and speculation

rosesfromangels, do you think BG is a serial killer? When I read things elsewhere that can't be discussed here, I start to think he must be.

Then I get back to the what we know not what we think mindset. Then I start thinking more that this was BG's first killing episode.

I'm curious what others think and why?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Is it also in here where Anna says that Abbey didn't know her house was back down that road under the bridge? So neither did Libby then?

This isn't mentioned.

AW talks about Abby's apprehension wanting to move forward and away. Libby answering with some language about but the trail ends. It was on this show on ID channel.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

AW says "Libby says something like, 'Well, the path ends here so we can’t go any farther'. You’re just kind of going by you have no idea what their, what their actual feelings are because you can’t really hear anything or see anything”.

I’m unable to sign into this, can somebody please pull the exact quotes if you get a chance? Tia very much!

The first 21 minutes of Still a Mystery, Down the Hill on the ID channel covers Abby and Libby with the remainder focusing on another case.

It includes an image of what is supposedly one of Libby’s shoes although I’ve never seen an image of her shoe anywhere else. Neither have I read in MSM that Libby was wearing black Nikes.

For those who have been unable to view this video …

 

[tresir2012]

I dont remember what kind of vehicle that was?? Can you remind me, please ??

In the Iowa case I think an SUV was seen in the area, from memory, and because of the distance from the girls bikes that the bodies were found, but in this case we haven't been told. I don't know why we haven't been told or whether LE know already about the vehicle. MOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

IMO, "local" could mean anywhere in a 30 mile radius from Delphi. I just don't think every single local person helped in the search, either, plus it was a weekday, so people were working. JMO

Former FBI agent Brad Garrett said, "Carroll County, Indiana, is very rural ... when the superintendent of the police says 'local,' that's not just the town of Delphi. That's Carroll County". "This person could well live 15 miles from Delphi, but they're from here, they know that trail, they walk that trail ... it's reasonable to think that the killer isn't down the street from the trail, but he's in the proximity."

Garrett said that particular trail likely wouldn't have visitors from outside the area. "The idea that a random person would happen to be walking down the railroad track and happen upon these two victims, and that they had never been there before, I think is low".

Mystery deepens as officials search for 'key' in girls' murders

 

[JudgeJudi]

Further to my comment about Libby's shoes ...

Kelsi said in the Infamous Indy podcast:

"I was standing on the trail that’s right under the bridge looking out into the woods and somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe.

And when they had found the shoe they had asked what kind of shoes the girls were wearing, and they yelled up the type of shoe that Libby was wearing. So I yelled down and told them that".

2: The Delphi Murders from Infamous Indy

 

[tresir2012]

Does anyone know if Staff had to report to school on that day or were they all off, including coaches, auxiliary staff, etc?

Also, I believe there was a sports fixture at the HS that day, so visitors to the area would also have been in town.

Anyone know the time of that sports fixture? Eg. Morning or afternoon.

 

[tresir2012]

Lady Oracles defeated in Regional Championship

There was a big game that morning. Here is the report of the game.

 

[Jax49]

Lady Oracles defeated in Regional Championship

There was a big game that morning. Here is the report of the game.

Looks like that game was on Saturday and played in Winamac.

Central Noble ends Delphi girls' regional run

 

[TL4S]

rosesfromangels, do you think BG is a serial killer? When I read things elsewhere that can't be discussed here, I start to think he must be.

Then I get back to the what we know not what we think mindset. Then I start thinking more that this was BG's first killing episode.

I'm curious what others think and why?

I lean towards this being his first time, but I'm admittedly not well-versed in serial killers. I guess I lean that way because they think he's local, yet no other local crimes prior to these murders stand out as a connection, and because the girls were found so soon after they were murdered, and the risks involved in committing the crime in a relatively public place, and within a fairly short time frame.

It's not my solid stance. It's fluid. In part because I don't know if murder was even the initial motive, or an outcome of something going wrong.

 

[TL4S]

Well, anyone that knows me in FB groups and here, Knows that I am obsessed with the cemetery angle. I dont know why or how, but I feel it is an important area regarding this case. I went there, I parked there, I took pics, and even being there, it made my feeling even stronger. The cemetery has something to do with this case, somehow. JMO

The cemetery is something I keep going back to, as well. From where the girls ended up, the cemetery seems important because:

-It's close proximity to the crime
-A possible place for BG to park
-A possible direction for the girls to head to get back to the road if fleeing from or simply trying to avoid BG on the trail

 

[rosesfromangels]

rosesfromangels, do you think BG is a serial killer? When I read things elsewhere that can't be discussed here, I start to think he must be.

Then I get back to the what we know not what we think mindset. Then I start thinking more that this was BG's first killing episode.

I'm curious what others think and why?

Yes, I believe it is highly probable that he has killed before. His ability to control two girls, murder them and escape speaks to experience; an escalation of his acts. The risk likely is part of the thrill for him.

The profile LE has given us lines up with the profile of an SK as well with regard to race, age range, and familiarity with the kill zone.

I have no doubt in his mind we will discover he is responsible for other murders with a similar signature, but this is...

Amateur opinion and speculation