Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[Krwiley60]

Just reading back about early on LE activities that were made public, not many were. If anyone knows the answer, it would be much appreciated.

Indiana's constitution pretty much follows the nation's 4th amendment word for word about probable cause based on "oath and admission", only a slight change as to what time of day or night searches can occur. (Indiana says anytime at all)

What is the bottom line though for a warrant under "oath and admission"? Is it as little as a tipster has to swear under oath to something about a person or residence? Or are LE also tasked with finding corroboration on that tip before probable cause is met for a warrant? TIA if anyone can clarify this for me.

It is the law enforcer who submits the factual evidence in an affidavit for a warrant. By taking the oath, he is taking responsibility for the information in the affidavit and it’s contents.

 

[sunshineray]

It is the law enforcer who submits the factual evidence in an affidavit for a warrant. By taking the oath, he is taking responsibility for the information in the affidavit and it’s contents.

So if a LE believes a tip to be true, that is all that's needed for probable cause? Even if that tip is anonymous? I'm just tryin to figure out the difference in stating probable cause from a tip for say someone a distance away from a crime scene as opposed to say RL's property that was the crime scene. Is the threshold the same? Just a sworn statement that a tip could be true, in good faith is believed to be true by an officer of the law? TIA

 

[sunshineray]

Probably not the place to put this, but I’ve been thinking about the comment we were on to something early on and you mentioned early activities. Of course they could mean in the first few months and not right off the bat.

The very first things LE would do would be an area canvass, establish a time line looking at the people the girls would encounter up to the incident and look at the people closest to them. Early investigation starts close and works its way out.

In order to get a warrant in my state you have to write up an affidavit stating the reasons you want the search warrant. Then you have to get a judge to sign off on it and I doubt they just sign off on anything. Not sure that a tipster swore to it under oath would be convincing enough independent of additional info.

Im tired today so sorry in advance if this was not an appropriate response or illogical.

That's what I was wondering, For the local, state and federal LE to act on just a tip or even two, those tips would have to be pretty darn convincing, I would think, to generate probable cause in front of a judge to raid someone's property. I wish I could ask my Dad, state LE for 34 years, but he's passed on. Appreciate your opinion.

 

[SilentRogue]

Agree 100%!!!
A lot of “Cold” cases are actually “solved” within the first few weeks. However, law enforcement doesn’t realize they have found the correct perpetrator. You can look into several high profile cases: The Green River Killer, BTK, Golden State Killer... etc Law Enforcement HAD these guys on their radar but for one reason or another they were crossed off the list. This is one of the MAIN reasons I believe that after a certain amount of time it should be demanded that ALL cases like this be looked over from the very beginning with “a new set of fresh eyes” as they say. Bring in someone new that doesn’t know the case. Let them look it over. I bet these cases would be solved MUCH faster.

My own personal opinion of course.

The only one of those you named that was even a POI or otherwise "on the radar" was Gary Ridgway.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Early on police focused on RL; maybe his son was questioned because of that? Would that make sense re "Flora"?

I think this guy got stopped because he looked similar to what LE felt at the time the guy in the bridge looked like.

JMO

 

[pearl]

I think the only way info from a tip can make it into an affidavit is if LE can corroborate it with a fact. Only facts will meet the threshold for a search warrant. If you follow a case and read the search warrants, the facts supporting new warrants are based on factual evidence developed through investigation. If you can see all the warrants, you can follow how the case developed. However, so many search warrants are sealed.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

What day was it released that Libby had captured pictures in her phone of the BG? Was it after this Feb 16th article. They could have been talking about the images she captured but just didnt want to release that info yet. At first LE just stated they wanted to talk to the BG as a possible witness. LE wasn't going to tip that Libby was the photographer...yet?

I don't think that LE had released the info about Libby being the photographer when this article was written.

Many people thought that the photo of BG had come from a trail camera for at least several days after the murders from what I recall.
JMO

 

[NameUser]

Maybe the thick white thing hanging down by BG's neck is a white gopro Leash? Either purchased or handmade? (I only saw black gopro leashes online). I think it IS worth consideration. The comparison pics Moonless posted definitely seem worth further perusal, IMO. I wasn't expecting to think so, but after looking at the comparisons, I really do. Could others please look carefully at these and weigh in here? I'm curious what others think.

When i looked closely, I have to wonder why the camera does not move when he moves his head/chin in the video. I wanted to believe, but I do not think there is a gopro mount .

 

[moonlessnight]

true, but if it was strapped around his head or neck he could expel it from his mouth without dropping it.

Doesn't look very outlandish, so would be possible perhaps: the GoPro-Thing. BUT: BG couldn't speak to the girls during using the mouth piece ....

 

[moonlessnight]

It seems to be a surfer thing, and used for hiking too.

What's the purpose of a mouth mounted Go Pro?

 

[moonlessnight]

or maybe someone who had one does not anymore - lost or damaged.

I have not posted on this thread before. I have followed since soon after the beginning and have done my homework. I read Websleuthers insights daily. I just want to say that if the killer used some sort of mouth mounted recording or communication device, LE could quietly be asking for names of people who have them. I think there would not be many in the Delphi area. I had never heard of the device until I read about it here. I had known about the forehead mounted cameras. Thank you to the sleuthers who do so much for the benefit of all.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

I really think if the perp had a camera, or a gas mask or something the girls would have mentioned it the recording. But police report that conversation to be what normal girls talk about. If there was something so unusual about him like a mouth camera, or dare I say a goat in his coat, or a horse halter on him. They would have said ‘look at the weirdo with a goat and respirator’ that would have been so unique the police would have quickly asked the public for tips on a perp with oxygen equipment or farm animals. Along the same lines if it was a person known to them I would think they would say to one another look at Tom, or John or Mr so n so. Why is he following. And that would have been recorded in the ‘girl talk’. Moo

 

[margarita25]

I've been reluctant to say there's anything stated by LE hinting at the crime scene, or manner of death, possible SA, what have you. I think they're careful with this information. But this paragraph makes me very sad.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders
“This is very personal to me. And maybe it’s because I’m in the sunset of my career, but it’s the epitome of evil," Carter said. "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional, but I think of Abby and Libby all the time."

Yes. There is something here for sure. I think about this statement a lot.

—-

Golf tournament held to raise money for Abby and Libby park
Aug 11, 2019

 

[mtnlites]

What's the purpose of a mouth mounted Go Pro?

I use mine for horseback riding, bicyling, riding at amusement parks, walking-basically wherever I need the use of both hands.

 

[mtnlites]

I really think if the perp had a camera, or a gas mask or something the girls would have mentioned it the recording. But police report that conversation to be what normal girls talk about. If there was something so unusual about him like a mouth camera, or dare I say a goat in his coat, or a horse halter on him. They would have said ‘look at the weirdo with a goat and respirator’ that would have been so unique the police would have quickly asked the public for tips on a perp with oxygen equipment or farm animals. Along the same lines if it was a person known to them I would think they would say to one another look at Tom, or John or Mr so n so. Why is he following. And that would have been recorded in the ‘girl talk’. Moo

Other than not actually seeing anything but a pixelated mass of color, I also believe that if the girls had seen something in his mouth it would've been mentioned on tape. If LE is truly trying to ID him then why NOT use that in the description. A young man between 20-40 and without blue eyes could apply to half the population. A young man with a gas mask, on the other hand, narrows down the possibilities. Someone might remember that their boyfriend got one in the mail the day before the murders, or someone may recall that their neighbor resembles the sketch and is on oxygen. That's the kind of detail that would truly aid in identification. Even with the camera mount. There aren't that many people who have them. They're really just now starting to become popular. I don't have any friends or family members who have one.

 

[moonlessnight]

I personally think that info about a camera or recording of (part of) the crime would be highly confidential as it is part of the crime and something only the girls and the killer(s) would know about.

I really think if the perp had a camera, or a gas mask or something the girls would have mentioned it the recording. But police report that conversation to be what normal girls talk about. If there was something so unusual about him like a mouth camera, or dare I say a goat in his coat, or a horse halter on him. They would have said ‘look at the weirdo with a goat and respirator’ that would have been so unique the police would have quickly asked the public for tips on a perp with oxygen equipment or farm animals. Along the same lines if it was a person known to them I would think they would say to one another look at Tom, or John or Mr so n so. Why is he following. And that would have been recorded in the ‘girl talk’. Moo

 

[moonlessnight]

if he recorded the crime it would have everything to do with the crime, his motives, and what someone involved in the crime would know about.

I agree, LE with all their tech bells and whistles would have identified any apparatus and would have included that in their description as it would have nothing to do with the crime and everything to do with the killer's identity. All I see are a nose, chin and a mouth, that's moving.

 

[mtnlites]

agree. the video still image and the 1 second walk video is a total cluster****

I did a side by side of BG and a couple of ads with a guys wearing GoPro mouth mounts. There are some differences in design and color, but I can see how it could be the case with BG. You can see where and how the mouth mount would obscure the face and which parts of the face would be affected by various angles of the head and angles of the camera connecting device.

This is the only way I can make any sense of the face shown on the video. I am sure that's why LE keeps saying to look at the body on the video, and that the sketch is the face that goes with the body in the video. The face in the video is not recognizable due to obfuscation.

I am sure that LE keeps saying to look at the body on the video because the footage was taken almost 70 feet away, during motion, in what appears to be without zooming, making the details pixelated to the point that they are indistinguishable. The face is unrecognizable because the facial features are too small and small details are unrecognizable from a distance like that-especially when the photographer is walking and doing their best to be stealthy. The rest of the body, though also pixelated and blurry, is a larger expanse of space. While you can't see many details, you can still see shape and movement.

 

[moonlessnight]

I would just hate to admit this possibility. I do think the killer is deranged enough to want to have something of his crime on video - even if just the initial identity of his victims - for reliving the crime. Maybe he likes to record the hunt.

could there be more to the SM aspect of this case?
The rise of GoPro: why wearable cameras make us film everything

If we go with the go pro theory maybe someone offered to pay the killer money if he took pictures or video killing someone like this case Alaska Teen Allegedly Killed 'Best Friend' After Man Online Offered $9M For Videos of Murder

 

[moonlessnight]

I actually heard a video of the family talking about how they had discussed putting a GoPro on a stick and searching the water before they found the girls.

Not insinuating that family had anything to do with it, but making the point that GoPro's are very popular and common.

I have not posted on this thread before. I have followed since soon after the beginning and have done my homework. I read Websleuthers insights daily. I just want to say that if the killer used some sort of mouth mounted recording or communication device, LE could quietly be asking for names of people who have them. I think there would not be many in the Delphi area. I had never heard of the device until I read about it here. I had known about the forehead mounted cameras. Thank you to the sleuthers who do so much for the benefit of all.