Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[Charlot123]

Means they have no DNA then.
Also, police have they have said they have enough evidence if they can find individual.
I always wonder what that evidence could be? it has been described as an item.

They said, something belonging to the killer. Could be anything.

I still hope they have mitochondrial DNA, but it is more difficult to tie it up to the person. First, not everyone tests mitochondrial DNA. But let us say, you found a full mitochondrial match. Well...matching exactly on the Mitochondrial DNA Full Sequence test means that you have a 50% chance of sharing a common maternal ancestor within the last 5 generations. That is about 125 years. Maybe even more. So there is a lot of work to reconstruct the tree, find that ancestor, trace all her direct matrilineal descendants, find the men who are now living and of suitable age, check alibis. A lot of work.

 

[tresir2012]

There is something I have been thinking about that I wasn't sure it was worth posting on here, but I finally asked my SO about it last night and I've googled it and I'm not any clearer, so thought I'd throw it out here and hear everyone's thoughts

I wanted to focus on things that have remained the same about the description of BG since the release of the new sketch. I believe height is one of those things, that has been discussed by people a few times IIRC.

But what do you think reddish-brown hair is? I can picture people with brown hair, red hair, sandy brown hair, blondish-red hair. I have trouble picturing reddish brown hair. Maybe it is just me. When I googled it, I got a lot of images of hair dyed kind of unnatural colours. The natural hair images that came up - I was not sure they were definitely reddish-brown. The images of BG look like sandy coloured hair to me. Thoughts?

Like Abby's? I would describe her hair as reddish brown colour.

 

[tresir2012]

They said, something belonging to the killer. Could be anything.

I still hope they have mitochondrial DNA, but it is more difficult to tie it up to the person. First, not everyone tests mitochondrial DNA. But let us say, you found a full mitochondrial match. Well...matching exactly on the Mitochondrial DNA Full Sequence test means that you have a 50% chance of sharing a common maternal ancestor within the last 5 generations. That is about 125 years. Maybe even more. So there is a lot of work to reconstruct the tree, find that ancestor, trace all her direct matrilineal descendants, find the men who are now living and of suitable age, check alibis. A lot of work.

I think they must have a hat with reddish brown hair in it. Hopefully with the follicle attached.

 

[tresir2012]

Was it Carter who said "Why Abby, why Libby"? so how do we fit that into theories?
Random or targeted? Planned meeting or not?
Thoughts?

 

[TL4S]

There is something I have been thinking about that I wasn't sure it was worth posting on here, but I finally asked my SO about it last night and I've googled it and I'm not any clearer, so thought I'd throw it out here and hear everyone's thoughts

I wanted to focus on things that have remained the same about the description of BG since the release of the new sketch. I believe height is one of those things, that has been discussed by people a few times IIRC.

But what do you think reddish-brown hair is? I can picture people with brown hair, red hair, sandy brown hair, blondish-red hair. I have trouble picturing reddish brown hair. Maybe it is just me. When I googled it, I got a lot of images of hair dyed kind of unnatural colours. The natural hair images that came up - I was not sure they were definitely reddish-brown. The images of BG look like sandy coloured hair to me. Thoughts?

I'm in agreement with what other posters said about the coloring. IMO, the even bigger question is how do they know his hair color so definitively? I'm hopeful there's hair evidence, or maybe even a bit more video, or something the girls said on audio...whatever. Unless witnesses agreed on his hair color and size, but not his age, there must be evidence that's kept the hair color the same through two sketches.

 

[Soulmagent]

I'm in agreement with what other posters said about the coloring. IMO, the even bigger question is how do they know his hair color so definitively? I'm hopeful there's hair evidence, or maybe even a bit more video, or something the girls said on audio...whatever. Unless witnesses agreed on his hair color and size, but not his age, there must be evidence that's kept the hair color the same through two sketches.

Whatever it is that may be making them remain consistent on the hair color is most likely scientific.
The Root of Your Hair Color Lies in Your DNA

 

[susiQ]

Was it Carter who said "Why Abby, why Libby"? so how do we fit that into theories?
Random or targeted? Planned meeting or not?
Thoughts?

At what point in time did DC say this? At the April PC or a year ago, two years ago? Just curious.

 

[susiQ]

Like Abby's? I would describe her hair as reddish brown colour.

Or, auburn?

 

[Jax49]

At what point in time did DC say this? At the April PC or a year ago, two years ago? Just curious.

It was a PC about one week after the murders. bbm

ISP Superintendent Doug Carter became emotional when he spoke during the news conference.

"Why Libby? Why Abby? Why Delphi? Why Carroll County?" Carter asked struggling to control his emotion. Carter revealed that he'd talked to Gov. Eric Holcomb about the case.

UPDATE: Police say photo of suspect in Delphi homicides came from teen’s phone; audio released of man’s voice

 

[susiQ]

It was a PC about one week after the murders. bbm



UPDATE: Police say photo of suspect in Delphi homicides came from teen’s phone; audio released of man’s voice

Thank you, @Jax49! That puts it into perspective. Very early in the investigation, prior to changing their strategy this year.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Maybe they don't absolutely need a false alibi cracked, could proceed without it, but are hoping to crack the alibi so circumstantial evidence (such as exactly which family member drove that car that day) can be used as evidence at trial.

 

[Charlot123]

.

I don't feel it is a matter of just recognizing the perp in your town. I think the bigger issue at play is DENIAL Somehow the human mind can "see" the truth, but denial quickly takes control and negates the thought. Other than being a protective coping mechanism, I don't understand how it works from a psychological standpoint. There is still so much we don't know about how the human mind works and all of its intricate capabilities.

I believe this is why Carter keeps alluding to the perp being in plain sight and right under people's noses. I bet there are a lot folks in and around Delphi who recognize BG, but denial has clouded their thinking, and hence, they go about their own lives and never consider submitting a tip, because DENIAL says "Oh what a stupid thought I had - he can't be BG, he would NEVER do anything like that."

JMO, MOO, etc.

Could be. On the other side, if the witnesses did not know him, human memory is incredibly unreliable thing. I have poor memory for faces, as I am now thinking. 1-3% of people suffer from prosopagnosia - facial blindness - and don’t even know it.

 

[Charlot123]

Like Abby's? I would describe her hair as reddish brown colour.

I would not stick to hair or eye color, as tinted lenses or coloring films can change the eyes and hair color in 5 minutes. Even these things that give volume to hair come in colored versions.

 

[Charlot123]

agree on all points. I think there is some twisted religious interpretation of the murders and some grandiose fantasy of the meaning of it and the idea of redemption - on the murderer's family's terms and among themselves only.

The sole interpretation of the murders tells me there is no real faith there. Many postulates of religion have been debated, but as far as I know, “thou shalt not kill” is the cornerstone. Killing two teenagers for no reason is the sin that is outside of the realm of the redemption, at least not if the person goes on with his life as if nothing has happened.

I can understand the family that loves their member too much to oust him, but rationalizing own behavior by redemption means they are as twisted as he is, and probably, as dangerous.

 

[JnRyan]

If this is true, I would have to conclude that there is NO DNA belonging to the killer at the crime scene. JMO

If you posted this 2 years ago I'd give you an argument. 2.5 years later the very best I believe is that LE has more than one unidentified DNA and don't know which is the killer. If one of them is the killers. Its possible LE has it, but my confidence on that is not high.

 

[Krwiley60]

I'm in agreement with what other posters said about the coloring. IMO, the even bigger question is how do they know his hair color so definitively? I'm hopeful there's hair evidence, or maybe even a bit more video, or something the girls said on audio...whatever. Unless witnesses agreed on his hair color and size, but not his age, there must be evidence that's kept the hair color the same through two sketches.

If they fought BG, there may be hair strands found in their hands or somewhere on their body that would be a definitive description of hair color. Along with the witnesses observations.

 

[TL4S]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

This is the first transcript I ran across, so forgive me if the link isn't TOS.

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights
BBM
We know this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know. And one day, you will. A question to you: What will those closest to you think of you when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls? Two children! Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders. We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to two children. I recently watched a movie called ‘The Shack’, and there’s also a book that talks so well about evil, about death, and about eternity. To the murderer: I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left. And I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, IS NOT, what they are experiencing today.

Okay, I get where people are coming from with the idea that statements like these mean BG has religious ties. They certainly could. IMO, though, with the religious talk following on the heels of the "power" and "knowing" talk, I feel more like LE was taking BG down a notch, reminding him that he is NOT the all knowing, all powerful. He maybe took their lives, but he can't keep possession of them, because he isn't God. Even an atheist could get the message, if that's how it was meant. And LE's silence ever since only supports the idea that they are done feeding him.

 

[tresir2012]

At what point in time did DC say this? At the April PC or a year ago, two years ago? Just curious.

I thought it was this year. Does anyone remember it being said?

ETA, I'm behind, I see Jax has responded that it was the PC early in the investigation. Still valid questions.
(Thanks Jax)

 

[tresir2012]

Thank you, @Jax49! That puts it into perspective. Very early in the investigation, prior to changing their strategy this year.

Their strategy is to go back to the beginning with the sketch. Not to change strategy as such.

 

[tresir2012]

I would not stick to hair or eye color, as tinted lenses or coloring films can change the eyes and hair color in 5 minutes. Even these things that give volume to hair come in colored versions.

LE say he had reddish brown hair. They didn't say he has dyed reddish brown hair or he appears to have reddish brown hair. They know he has reddish brown hair IMO. He could have since dyed it, (they said the perp could have since changed his appearance) but at the time of the murders his hair was reddish brown.