Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

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I'm from rural Oregon, my partner is from northern Virginia (Fredericksburg), I live in Richmond, Virginia , my ex-wife is from.... Lafayette, Indiana - you wouldn't be able to tell which of us is from where.

Accents aren't as dramatic as you like to imagine they are.

I don’t hear an accent.

That being said....You’d definitely be able to tell where I’ve lived most of my life based on my accent (which is no where near as thick as some people). Not necessarily the state, but the region. BG does not have an accent like mine.
 
You're not comparing regions- you're comparing nationalities.

The post did mention the differences between say a northerner’s accent and someone from the southeastern US. IMO there are regional differences that can be heard by everyday, non-professional folks. I hear them all the time! I grew up in rural Alabama and on the whole, the dialect here is noticeably different than in Louisiana, Florida, South Carolina, and even Mississippi depending on the region of the state. And the dialect most common in those states differ from the others as well. And that’s just in the SE. Someone from the NE or west coast usually stands out quite significantly.

Sure, in our modern world differences in dialect are likely eroding, but regional differences in dialect is still very real depending on the region (I assume more rural, and thus isolated, areas will have more noticeable differences in dialect).

Edit: Having said all that, I have no clue as to the nuances of Midwestern/Northeastern dialects, so I can’t comment on that as it pertains to BG. I mainly just wanted to chime in and say that in some parts of the US, dialect is still quite noticeable.
 
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The post did mention the differences between say a northerner’s accent and someone from the southeastern US. IMO there are regional differences that can be heard by everyday, non-professional folks. I hear them all the time! I grew up in rural Alabama and on the whole, the dialect here is noticeably different than in Louisiana, Florida, South Carolina, and even Mississippi depending on the region of the state. And the dialect most common in those states differ from the others as well. And that’s just in the SE. Someone from the NE or west coast usually stands out quite significantly.

Sure, in our modern world differences in dialect are likely eroding, but regional differences in dialect is still very real depending on the region (I assume more rural, and thus isolated, areas will have more noticeable differences in dialect).

Edit: Having said all that, I have no clue as to the nuances of Midwestern/Northeastern dialects, so I can’t comment on that as it pertains to BG. I mainly just wanted to chime in and say that in some parts of the US, dialect is still quite noticeable.

BBM - this is true. Someone not from the south would probably not be able to tell the differences though.

I don’t hear an accent in the BG recording, but I’m also not from the area. All I know is he doesn’t sound like me or my family in NJ or NY.
 
I'm from rural Oregon, my partner is from northern Virginia (Fredericksburg), I live in Richmond, Virginia , my ex-wife is from.... Lafayette, Indiana - you wouldn't be able to tell which of us is from where.

Accents aren't as dramatic as you like to imagine they are.
I disagree. I've lived in Florida since '81 and still get called out by complete strangers for my Chicago accent. My daughter, born in Florida and raised in Florida has been called out on a phone call at work for her Midwest accent which she never knew she obviously inherited. Her husband is from Kentucky. Sometimes I can't understand him. He pronounced Ryan "Ron".
 
I struggle with the 2 sketches. It could be that LE was on the wrong track with the first sketch, but they were convinced enough that lots of money was spent on billboards etc. What convinced them of that look in the beginning? Then to switch to the new sketch, looking very different from the first was a shock! And what an age range! Then to say BG might resemble both sketches......well.... I guess they could be related. But it sure seems like a lot of that town is related! I do wonder if there are two perps, but didn't LE say the pic of the man on the bridge is the killer? Have they ever alluded to there being more than one or said there is only one? I can't remember.
I believe they said NBG sketch is "responsible" for the murders and that BG PIC "is" the murderer. Do I have that right?
 
If LE know, he wanted to know what they know, then they must have identified him so far.
MOO

I'd like to think they've identified him, but identification isn't required for LE to assume he's watching. The FBI may have created a script or outline for the April PC, one that included informed guesses into BG's assumed personality traits.

It's also possible LE has narrowed the field of suspects down enough to make a few assumptions. This is a good sign.
 
I’m not familiar with Indiana specifically, but as a Midwesterner, I can recognize Chicago vs St Louis vs Minnesota accents, for example. Even though they are all “midwestern” there are distinct differences that you can recognize if you’re from the region. Some areas of the country are just easy to tell... Pittsburgh, NJ/NY, Boston, etc.

BG sounds generally Midwestern, but I’d rely more on locals & linguists who have studied Indiana to be more specific.
 
Or just a clue that he doesn't have a southern accent. That eliminates a lot of rural southern men. Can anyone place the accent?

Boxer and others have brought this up.

I'll call this Falling Down's Part I about the subject of linguistics, within this thread.

MOO I have been thinking that now they have 5 words out there for linguists to work with. They must gave a good idea where his accent is from.
It is very like Delphi accent, just a little less lilting.

Bolded and underlined by me.

I've heard three distinct accents since living here in IN, next month will be four years. I've lived in NC, SC, Upstate NY, Okinawa, and here. Spent 4 years in the military. So I've heard a lot of accents and dialects, it's a fascinating subject to me. My own dialect and accent is like you might find in northern IN, especially around Gary/Hammond and maybe South Bend, etc. I'm from western NY originally, people here assume I'm from southern Wisconsin. A lot of GM employees were transferred here 30+ years ago from WI when the truck plant opened in Fort Wayne, so I get the association. People here who are from Janesville, WI, sound like me.

My accent and dialect is more urban Great Lakes in nature, although there are rural variations of the NCVS that are distinct and very local in nature, relatives of mine in the area of Clifton Springs, NY, have a very distinct dialect. Folks here on WS who have heard that NCVS type of speech know what I'm talking about. Sometimes it's not easy to separate where someone is from across the Great Lakes if they have that accent. Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Sandusky, Toledo, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Benton Harbor, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Chicagoland, Kenosha, Rockford, Joliet, all the way down the Mississippi to St. Louis, etc., etc. etc., we all sound similar. Southern IL and IN not so much. I hear it here in Fort Wayne, especially on the north side of town. The vowel shifts, "possessives", dipthongs, etc., may vary from city to city, one side of a city to another, across ethnicities. and on and on. However the NCVS/Inland North American English type of speech is unmistakable.

"down the hill" or "get/git down the hill" is garbled. Sounds like Libby's phone was in a pocket or there was something else that blocked some of the sounds her phone picked up. There's an upward lilt on "hill", otherwise not much else I've noticed, and I've listened to that audio hundreds of times since it was released.

"Guys" or "Guys?'", sounds short and lilting, to me. One syllable, mid-tone but rises. More Great Lakes/Northern Cities Vowel Shift (NCVS), aka Inland North American English. Just one word can indicate where someone is from, generally. People around here (Fort Wayne) talk about the "Indiana lilt". I know what they're talking about. Just that one word, "guys", tells me BG is from a place closer to the lakes, if not a place in the middle parts of Michigan or WI where the accent/dialect is common, too.

BG didn't say "Hey, y'all...", the "Guys" or "Guys?", sounds very natural to me. This is how BG talks. BG is from a place more northern in nature than Delphi, however not much more northern in nature, so to speak. Within a short or even very short distance of Delphi.

The "Guys" to me sounds like how I've heard it in life, generally. Like BG is asking a question or maybe being persuasive, "guys" in his case might be a catch-all word in the context he was using it. "Guys" he was using to get their attention, either it's natural for him or he's been in an authoritarian type of position in life at some point or another. Or he's a wannabe type.

The FBI has linguists experts, and the FBI also gets the advice of pro linguists in academia and what have you. A linguist at University at Buffalo has nailed the NCVS/Inland North American dialects and accents, and there are other experts who have done the same.

The last PC revealed that LE believe BG is "local". What does "local" mean in that context? Local, as in within a 15 minute drive of the bridge area? Local, as in within 100 miles of the bridge? My hunch is the linguistic experts have been leaned upon by investigators in this case to try and figure out where that voice is from. My educated guess is NW Indiana, but could very well be BG "has ties" to Delphi. Although he could be from IL or MI.

My hunch is he was home for dinner/supper.

BG could very well have family and perhaps even professional ties to Delphi, but MOO is he doesn't live there. Why else would LE say what they have said about BG and where he is or may be from? Linguistics is part of it, I am convinced linguistics plays a part of the investigation in Delphi.

I go back to my experience in Columbia, SC, in 2007, which I've shared here, before. I moved to the city in September of '07, and ended up in an auto parts store looking for some random whatever. Ambled up to the counter, where a nice African American guy greeted me and started the transaction. Without hesitation, he looked at me and said "You're from Rochester.". Turns out he's a retired U.S. Army guy. So he's heard his share of accents and dialects throughout his career.

I've tried my best to 'hide' my accent/dialect, at times. People in Rochester sometimes don't think I'm from there, as my dialect is not as severe as it used to be. This guy 5 states from my home state and locale nailed down the very city where I'm from, without hesitation. There are at least two distinct dialects around Rochester, a small metro, yet this random guy I met nailed down the very city where I'm from. Without hesitation.

So thinking aloud as I write random stuff about linguistics and accents, is it possible some one person, or some people, have nailed down exactly where BG is from, and it's now playing a big part in the case? How BG talks?

Stay tuned...

JMO

-FD
 
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My Opinion Only MOO.
Linguistics is a very solid field. They will tell you they need 50 words to place an regional accent, but like all experienced workers they can take good guesses. Like a an experienced mechanic usually knowing almost right away what the issue is going to be from couple of sounds and symptoms.
 
Boxer and others have brought this up.

I'll call this Falling Down's Part I about the subject of linguistics, within this thread.



Bolded and underlined by me.

I've heard three distinct accents since living here in IN, next month will be four years. I've lived in NC, SC, Upstate NY, Okinawa, and here. Spent 4 years in the military. So I've heard a lot of accents and dialects, it's a fascinating subject to me. My own dialect and accent is like you might find in northern IN, especially around Gary/Hammond and maybe South Bend, etc. I'm from western NY originally, people here assume I'm from southern Wisconsin. A lot of GM employees were transferred here 30+ years ago from WI when the truck plant opened in Fort Wayne, so I get the association. People here who are from Janesville, WI, sound like me.

My accent and dialect is more urban Great Lakes in nature, although there are rural variations of the NCVS that are distinct and very local in nature, relatives of mine in the area of Clifton Springs, NY, have a very distinct dialect. Folks here on WS who have heard that NCVS type of speech know what I'm talking about. Sometimes it's not easy to separate where someone is from across the Great Lakes if they have that accent. Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Sandusky, Toledo, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Benton Harbor, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Chicagoland, Kenosha, Rockford, Joliet, all the way down the Mississippi to St. Louis, etc., etc. etc., we all sound similar. Southern IL and IN not so much. I hear it here in Fort Wayne, especially on the north side of town. The vowel shifts, "possessives", dipthongs, etc., may vary from city to city, one side of a city to another, across ethnicities. and on and on. However the NCVS/Inland North American English type of speech is unmistakable.

"down the hill" or "get/git down the hill" is garbled. Sounds like Libby's phone was in a pocket or there was something else that blocked some of the sounds her phone picked up. There's an upward lilt on "hill", otherwise not much else I've noticed, and I've listened to that audio hundreds of times since it was released.

"Guys" or "Guys?'", sounds short and lilting, to me. One syllable, mid-tone but rises. More Great Lakes/Northern Cities Vowel Shift (NCVS), aka Inland North American English. Just one word can indicate where someone is from, generally. People around here (Fort Wayne) talk about the "Indiana lilt". I know what they're talking about. Just that one word, "guys", tells me BG is from a place closer to the lakes, if not a place in the middle parts of Michigan or WI where the accent/dialect is common, too.

BG didn't say "Hey, y'all...", the "Guys" or "Guys?", sounds very natural to me. This is how BG talks. BG is from a place more northern in nature than Delphi, however not much more northern in nature, so to speak. Within a short or even very short distance of Delphi.

The "Guys" to me sounds like how I've heard it in life, generally. Like BG is asking a question or maybe being persuasive, "guys" in his case might be a catch-all word in the context he was using it. "Guys" he was using to get their attention, either it's natural for him or he's been in an authoritarian type of position in life at some point or another. Or he's a wannabe type.

The FBI has linguists, and the FBI also gets the advice of pro linguists in academia and what have you. A linguist at University at Buffalo has nailed the NCVS/Inland North American dialects and accents, and there are other experts who have done the same.

The last PC revealed that LE believe BG is "local". What does "local" mean in that context? Local, as in within a 15 minute drive of the bridge area? Local, as in within 100 miles of the bridge? My hunch is the linguistic experts have been leaned upon by investigators in this case to try and figure out where that voice is from. My educated guess is NW Indiana, but could very well be BG "has ties" to Delphi. Although he could be from IL or MI.

My hunch is he was home for dinner/supper.

BG could very well have family and perhaps even professional ties to Delphi, but MOO is he doesn't live there. Why else would LE say what they have said about BG and where he is or may be from? Linguistics is part of it, I am convinced linguistics plays a part of the investigation in Delphi.

I go back to my experience in Columbia, SC, in 2007, which I've shared here, before. I moved to the city in September of '07, and ended up in an auto parts store looking for some random whatever. Ambled up to the counter, where a nice African American guy greeted me and started the transaction. Without hesitation, he looked at me and said "You're from Rochester.". Turns out he's a retired U.S. Army guy. So he's heard his share of accents and dialects throughout his career.

I've tried my best to 'hide' my accent/dialect, at times. People in Rochester sometimes don't think I'm from there, as my dialect is not as severe as it used to be. This guy 5 states from my home state and locale nailed down the very city where I'm from, without hesitation. There are at least two distinct dialects around Rochester, a small metro, yet this random guy I met nailed down the very city where I'm from. Without hesitation.

So thinking aloud as I write random stuff about linguistics and accents, is it possible some one person, or some people, have nailed down exactly where BG is from, and it's now playing a big part in the case? How BG talks?

Stay tuned...

JMO

-FD

MOO. Yes I agree that BG spent time west and north of Delphi, but not that far.
And some people are really phenomenal at hearing accents and identifying them.
 
Falling Down's Part II within this thread, about linguistics.

Switching gears, who taught BG how to talk, from a young age?

I was taught from a young age how to talk and read. My father was from Buffalo. North Buffalo, NY, and Cheektowaga. Proficiency in English was very important, his dad was born there but my gr. grandparents were from central Europe and died young. I don't think they were ever proficient in English, but being so was imbued in their kids. My grandfather and his siblings. So my grandfather was adamant his kids were proficient at English, but they also knew Latin from Catholic school, and some German and French.

Long story short, how we talk, as humans, is dependent upon who taught us to talk. So when people in Rochester tell me I don't sound like I'm from there, even though I grew up there, well my dad from Buffalo taught me how to read, and did a great job at it. A city 70 miles from Rochester, yet the dialect and some accents between the two cities are very different. There are 4 distinct dialects in Buffalo, and at least two I'm aware of in Rochester.

My mom is from rural NY. Totally different outlook on life and background, compared to my dad.

Some of us can tell where we grew up in Rochester. and we grew up mere miles apart from each other. This plays out in in various locales, here in America and across the world.

This is where the linguistic experts come in. They can tell someone's home place, where they grew up, within miles, unless that person moved around as a kid.

BG may not have been taught how to talk and read by anyone in Delphi, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have ties to Delphi.

JMO

-FD
 
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Falling Down's Part II within this thread, about linguistics.

Switching gears, who taught BG how to talk, from a young age?

I was taught from a young age how to talk and read. My father was from Buffalo. North Buffalo, NY, and Cheektowaga. Proficiency in English was very important, his dad was born there but my gr. grandparents were from central Europe and died young. I don't think they were ever proficient in English, but being so was imbued in their kids. My grandfather and his siblings. So my grandfather was adamant his kids were proficient at English, but they also knew Latin from Catholic school, and some German and French.

Long story short, how we talk, as humans, is dependent upon who taught us to talk. So when people in Rochester tell me I don't sound like I'm from there, even though I grew up there, well my dad from Buffalo taught me how to read, and did a great job at it. A city 70 miles from Rochester, yet the dialect and some accents between the two cities are very different. There are 4 distinct dialects in Buffalo, and at least two I'm aware of in Rochester.

My mom is from rural NY. Totally different outlook on life and background, compared to my dad.

Some of us can tell where we grew up in Rochester. and we grew up mere miles apart from each other. This plays out in in various locales, here in America and across the world.

This is where the linguistic experts come in. They can tell someone's home place, where they grew up, within miles, unless that person moved around as a kid.

BG may not have been taught how to talk and read by anyone in Delphi, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have ties to Delphi.

JMO

-FD
All very interesting, thank you.

Isn’t it also possible that he grew up in Delphi and maybe went to a larger city for college? Or maybe grew up in Delphi with a parent or parents who were from elsewhere? I know I lost most of my Midwestern accent in college.
 
All very interesting, thank you.

Isn’t it also possible that he grew up in Delphi and maybe went to a larger city for college? Or maybe grew up in Delphi with a parent or parents who were from elsewhere? I know I lost most of my Midwestern accent in college.

Did you? Sometimes you never know, and I'm not trying to pick on you.

I thought I was playing off my Rochester dialect in SC, yet someone nailed where I'm from in an auto parts store, 5 states away.

Maybe BG was taught how to read by relatives, or isn't from Delphi but has had relatives there in the past? Therefore he would know the bridge and surrounding areas, somehow. Granted, I'm not pointing fingers at any one person or family, just a hunch.

LE have said BG has "ties" to Delphi. They've even said "local" far as a living situation is concerned. I don't think that necessarily means BG is from there or has permanently lived there.

JMO

-FD
 
I believe they said NBG sketch is "responsible" for the murders and that BG PIC "is" the murderer. Do I have that right?

IIRC they also said NBG is the man on the bridge.

MOO
I am thinking a young man raised watching CSI. I doubt he drove there, I think he picked a path to walk in where he would not be seen. Parking away and hidden. I doubt he brought a phone.
I think he checked out the area in advance for a route, for security cameras he might pass getting there. I think his older man clothes were intentional disguise - he did not dress up in black paramilitary, like Jamie Kloss assailant, but was disguised as an 'Everyman.'
The crime seems savvy about police procedure, security cams, phone tracking and DNA/CSI.

Clues in my opinion.

The flat where they were killed looks like someone's favorite place.
Who has ever been known to go to that flat.

Crime took endurance.

Knew not to bring own phone, or take Libby's.

from tower dump, what phone's were stationary in the area during the crime. Does it jive with the alibi.

MOO He may have been in the area checking it out in prior weeks, who saw who in the MHB area any time before the crime.
The two men Marvin Sandifur noted as hanging out around there hopefully have been located and questioned.

Robert Ives felt old fashioned police work would solve the crime in a few weeks.

I wonder what he knew to say that.
 
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Boxer and others have brought this up.

I'll call this Falling Down's Part I about the subject of linguistics, within this thread.



Bolded and underlined by me.

I've heard three distinct accents since living here in IN, next month will be four years. I've lived in NC, SC, Upstate NY, Okinawa, and here. Spent 4 years in the military. So I've heard a lot of accents and dialects, it's a fascinating subject to me. My own dialect and accent is like you might find in northern IN, especially around Gary/Hammond and maybe South Bend, etc. I'm from western NY originally, people here assume I'm from southern Wisconsin. A lot of GM employees were transferred here 30+ years ago from WI when the truck plant opened in Fort Wayne, so I get the association. People here who are from Janesville, WI, sound like me.

My accent and dialect is more urban Great Lakes in nature, although there are rural variations of the NCVS that are distinct and very local in nature, relatives of mine in the area of Clifton Springs, NY, have a very distinct dialect. Folks here on WS who have heard that NCVS type of speech know what I'm talking about. Sometimes it's not easy to separate where someone is from across the Great Lakes if they have that accent. Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Sandusky, Toledo, Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Benton Harbor, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, Chicagoland, Kenosha, Rockford, Joliet, all the way down the Mississippi to St. Louis, etc., etc. etc., we all sound similar. Southern IL and IN not so much. I hear it here in Fort Wayne, especially on the north side of town. The vowel shifts, "possessives", dipthongs, etc., may vary from city to city, one side of a city to another, across ethnicities. and on and on. However the NCVS/Inland North American English type of speech is unmistakable.

"down the hill" or "get/git down the hill" is garbled. Sounds like Libby's phone was in a pocket or there was something else that blocked some of the sounds her phone picked up. There's an upward lilt on "hill", otherwise not much else I've noticed, and I've listened to that audio hundreds of times since it was released.

"Guys" or "Guys?'", sounds short and lilting, to me. One syllable, mid-tone but rises. More Great Lakes/Northern Cities Vowel Shift (NCVS), aka Inland North American English. Just one word can indicate where someone is from, generally. People around here (Fort Wayne) talk about the "Indiana lilt". I know what they're talking about. Just that one word, "guys", tells me BG is from a place closer to the lakes, if not a place in the middle parts of Michigan or WI where the accent/dialect is common, too.

BG didn't say "Hey, y'all...", the "Guys" or "Guys?", sounds very natural to me. This is how BG talks. BG is from a place more northern in nature than Delphi, however not much more northern in nature, so to speak. Within a short or even very short distance of Delphi.

The "Guys" to me sounds like how I've heard it in life, generally. Like BG is asking a question or maybe being persuasive, "guys" in his case might be a catch-all word in the context he was using it. "Guys" he was using to get their attention, either it's natural for him or he's been in an authoritarian type of position in life at some point or another. Or he's a wannabe type.

The FBI has linguists experts, and the FBI also gets the advice of pro linguists in academia and what have you. A linguist at University at Buffalo has nailed the NCVS/Inland North American dialects and accents, and there are other experts who have done the same.

The last PC revealed that LE believe BG is "local". What does "local" mean in that context? Local, as in within a 15 minute drive of the bridge area? Local, as in within 100 miles of the bridge? My hunch is the linguistic experts have been leaned upon by investigators in this case to try and figure out where that voice is from. My educated guess is NW Indiana, but could very well be BG "has ties" to Delphi. Although he could be from IL or MI.

My hunch is he was home for dinner/supper.

BG could very well have family and perhaps even professional ties to Delphi, but MOO is he doesn't live there. Why else would LE say what they have said about BG and where he is or may be from? Linguistics is part of it, I am convinced linguistics plays a part of the investigation in Delphi.

I go back to my experience in Columbia, SC, in 2007, which I've shared here, before. I moved to the city in September of '07, and ended up in an auto parts store looking for some random whatever. Ambled up to the counter, where a nice African American guy greeted me and started the transaction. Without hesitation, he looked at me and said "You're from Rochester.". Turns out he's a retired U.S. Army guy. So he's heard his share of accents and dialects throughout his career.

I've tried my best to 'hide' my accent/dialect, at times. People in Rochester sometimes don't think I'm from there, as my dialect is not as severe as it used to be. This guy 5 states from my home state and locale nailed down the very city where I'm from, without hesitation. There are at least two distinct dialects around Rochester, a small metro, yet this random guy I met nailed down the very city where I'm from. Without hesitation.

So thinking aloud as I write random stuff about linguistics and accents, is it possible some one person, or some people, have nailed down exactly where BG is from, and it's now playing a big part in the case? How BG talks?

Stay tuned...

JMO

-FD
thank you
I thoroughly enjoyed your post!
and I agree wholeheartedly his linguistics and accent will be very informative to LE.

MOO
 
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