Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[kkdj]

If he turns out older, 30 or 40 I Agree.

My opinion only:
I now think BG is a Patterson type, young, modern killer.

CSI savvy, left virtually no "footprint"... No DNA, no video for his approach or exit from the trail by door bell cams or gas stations etc., no cell movement-didnt take victims cell, a speedy athletic crime.

Instead of shooting up a school this assailant kills some girls on trail for power.
A First Person Killer.
And likely to known the girls at least as an aquaintance since it ups his high on betrayal of norms.

Do you think he's killed before? Same style of killing? Do you think he's a serial killer?

 

[tresir2012]

Correct. I believe they know the vehicle and it's owner but need to know who was driving it. There must be some sort of question there but why? A person knows what vehicle they were driving and when. An owner knows if they loaned their car to someone and to whom. I haven't heard of a stolen vehicle in the area that day so why the question?

Maybe it was a pool vehicle like a works authority vehicle or company vehicle.

 

[Boxer]

Do you think he's killed before? Same style of killing? Do you think he's a serial killer?

MOO no. I think he is young, and like Patterson spinning some tale from the the current dark side of youth culture, about being a bronze age barbarian and killing to be powerful.

 

[SilentRogue]

I cant match your expertise on dialects at all. But the only thing I will say, is the way he says GUYS with that upward lilt , I believe is because at the same time he was saying that, he was revealing he had a gun, probably nodded down towards it ("Guyyyys", head nod to indicate the weapon, Go Down The Hill" )

The way he says guys to me sounds like he's breaking some bad news - simply because there is no context.

It is just "guys,".

If you imagine your self saying guys there is never a pause, unless it's bad.

Example:

How have you guys been?

Are you guys busy?

What did you guys do last weekend?

Alternatively, to use guys as a beginning word with a pause after, it's almost like an ice breaker.

Example:

Guys, I don't think our dog is going to make it.

Guys, we're going to have to make a new plan.

Guys, I have bad news....

I really don't think guys immediately preceeded down the hill.

I think that was the point he gave them some news he knew they didnt want to hear, either vocally or physically.

 

[Boxer]

The way he says guys to me sounds like he's breaking some bad news - simply because there is no context.

It is just "guys,".

If you imagine your self saying guys there is never a pause, unless it's bad.

Example:

How have you guys been?

Are you guys busy?

What did you guys do last weekend?

Alternatively, to use guys as a beginning word with a pause after, it's almost like an ice breaker.

Example:

Guys, I don't think our dog is going to make it.

Guys, we're going to have to make a new plan.

Guys, I have bad news....

I really don't think guys immediately preceeded down the hill.

I think that was the point he gave them some news he knew they didnt want to hear, either vocally or physically.

Totally agree.
I think the badbadnews news is: "look I have a gun pointed at you."

But, it could be something else like presenting a some lie as a lure.

 

[Thelastleg]

The way he says guys to me sounds like he's breaking some bad news - simply because there is no context.

It is just "guys,".

If you imagine your self saying guys there is never a pause, unless it's bad.

Example:

How have you guys been?

Are you guys busy?

What did you guys do last weekend?

Alternatively, to use guys as a beginning word with a pause after, it's almost like an ice breaker.

Example:

Guys, I don't think our dog is going to make it.

Guys, we're going to have to make a new plan.

Guys, I have bad news....

I really don't think guys immediately preceeded down the hill.

I think that was the point he gave them some news he knew they didnt want to hear, either vocally or physically.

I don't think "guys" preceeded down the hill either. I have a different view of the circumstances which is only my opinion. BG approached from the South side of the bridge and passed Abbey and Libby who were coming in the opposite direction. He said "Guys" as a cursory acknowledgment much the same as I would say good morning if passing a fellow walker when I'm out with the dog. He then checked there was no one else on the North side and did an about turn. For whatever reason the girls found him creepy they weren't prepared to wait and see what his intentions were so made off and crossed the creek to try and get back to the original pick up point. No idea where or when "down the hill" was said. I'm still in two minds whether he chased after the girls or went back off the North side and ambushed him. Wonder if you could see the route that is presumed to have been taken from the bridge.

 

[Fizzle]

Did you? Sometimes you never know, and I'm not trying to pick on you.

I thought I was playing off my Rochester dialect in SC, yet someone nailed where I'm from in an auto parts store, 5 states away.

Maybe BG was taught how to read by relatives, or isn't from Delphi but has had relatives there in the past? Therefore he would know the bridge and surrounding areas, somehow. Granted, I'm not pointing fingers at any one person or family, just a hunch.

LE have said BG has "ties" to Delphi. They've even said "local" far as a living situation is concerned. I don't think that necessarily means BG is from there or has permanently lived there.

JMO

-FD

I believe so. No one ever guesses that I grew up in the Midwest. Probably couldn't fool a pro.

But regarding BG, I haven't heard anyone say "this guy doesn't sound like he's from Delphi."

 

[Fizzle]

Although I could get busted with my frequent use of "guys." : ) I actually do use it for non-bad news (relating to the post a couple above)... I would say, "Guys, down the hill" "Guys, get in the car" "Guys, let's go" "Guys, over here" "Guys, put on your shoes." Just ask my kids. I don't think we can infer too much about context.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Totally agree.
I think the badbadnews news is: "look I have a gun pointed at you."

But, it could be something else like presenting a some lie as a lure.

I completely agree and think this is likely how it went down. I think the video and audio that have been released are only seconds apart. Perhaps the beginning and end of a Snapchat video.

 

[somequestions]

I have never seen a case where the killer has become such a mythical type character.

He is either the Delphi killer, bridge guy, Snapchat murderer, or a monster. I constantly find myself referring to him as the bridge guy. But really he is none of these things to me. He is just another criminal.

Paul Holes did a Crimecon segment(on youtube) about how to go about a crime scene investigation. According to him, the correct term to use is "offender."So in my opinion, the offender in this case is an older man at least in his 50's, maybe older, who is involved in some type of transient activity(like truck driving). The fact that he has not been caught could just be that he has not been caught. He must know the Monon High Bridge area somehow, but that could be from either visiting the area or working there. I do not think he is local to the Delphi area.

 

[lakelette]

The way he says guys to me sounds like he's breaking some bad news - simply because there is no context.

It is just "guys,".

If you imagine your self saying guys there is never a pause, unless it's bad.

Example:

How have you guys been?

Are you guys busy?

What did you guys do last weekend?

Alternatively, to use guys as a beginning word with a pause after, it's almost like an ice breaker.

Example:

Guys, I don't think our dog is going to make it.

Guys, we're going to have to make a new plan.

Guys, I have bad news....

I really don't think guys immediately preceeded down the hill.

I think that was the point he gave them some news he knew they didnt want to hear, either vocally or physically.

Interesting thoughts. Perhaps "guys, I don't want to have to use this" ... "Get down the hill"

 

[Charlot123]

Also - just thought of this, anti-depressants and psych meds also take the expression and lilt out speech.
In any case this is what I hear, with including implications :

"Guys"
(Look I have a gun pointed at you.
Yep, I am a bad man. I am enjoying how shocked and afraid you are. But maybe I won't hurt you if you do what I say. Now get going in front of me")

"G'down th'hill"

I doubt he was taking his psych meds that February...

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t hear an accent.

That being said....You’d definitely be able to tell where I’ve lived most of my life based on my accent (which is no where near as thick as some people). Not necessarily the state, but the region. BG does not have an accent like mine.

As a foreigner, I have heard many different accents, of several languages. While they exist, they are not so telling, and here is why.

My mom was born in a province and having moved to a big city, she got rid of the dialect. But - whenever she’d visit her native town, or even talk on the phone with her friends, her “home” accent would immediately appear. I think it is psychological mimicry, to pass for the local everywhere.

I know several Southerners who do not speak with the Southern accent in WA, but I bet when they visit their relatives, they revert back to the way they used to speak in childhood.

So if the BG spoke with a local Midwestern accent in childhood, he probably speaks this way whenever he visits Midwest. Where he lives now is another thing. And if he lives in Boston, for example, I bet he speaks with Bostonian accent at home.

 

[Cutiekitty]

As a foreigner, I have heard many different accents, of several languages. While they exist, they are not so telling, and here is why.

My mom was born in a province and having moved to a big city, she got rid of the dialect. But - whenever she’d visit her native town, or even talk on the phone with her friends, her “home” accent would immediately appear. I think it is psychological mimicry, to pass for the local everywhere.

I know several Southerners who do not speak with the Southern accent in WA, but I bet when they visit their relatives, they revert back to the way they used to speak in childhood.

So if the BG spoke with a local Midwestern accent in childhood, he probably speaks this way whenever he visits Midwest. Where he lives now is another thing. And if he lives in Boston, for example, I bet he speaks with Bostonian accent at home.

It’s possible.

I’m from the NE (NY/NJ), but lived most of my life in the south. I have zero NJ/NY accent even when I go back and visit the family (the conversations tend to be like My Cousin Vinny accent wise). I’ve lived in the south a LONG time and I’ve completely shed any accent I previously had.

I’m in the minority on here and I think BG is young, like currently 18-22. I don’t know that he’d have time to completely shed an accent so you could be right.

TBH I don’t hear any accent at all when I listen to the audio.

 

[Thisisusername]

Accents are weird in the Mid-West. I live in a suburb near Ann Arbor, to me BG sounds like someone from this region. However If I drive alittle ways into the country or even north, people start to sound "country".. If I drive lets say 3 hours in to the upper pennisula of Michigan. Well then people sound like "uppers" which is similar to the "canadian accent" blended with the "wisconsin" accent.

 

[gregjrichards]

If he turns out older, 30 or 40 I Agree.

My opinion only:
I now think BG is a Patterson type, young, modern killer.

CSI savvy, left virtually no "footprint"... No DNA, no video for his approach or exit from the trail by door bell cams or gas stations etc., no cell movement-didnt take victims cell, a speedy athletic crime.

Instead of shooting up a school this assailant kills some girls on trail for power.
A First Person Killer.
And likely to known the girls at least as an aquaintance since it ups his high on betrayal of norms.

The good thing is law enforcement have confirmed he “made mistakes” and that is going to be his undoing. I do not believe there is no dna or forensic evidence he would have needed to be wearing a forensic suit for him not to leave behind some evidence. Being caught on video on Liberty’s phone was a massive blunder and who knows what other mistakes he made.

 

[Cutiekitty]

The good thing is law enforcement have confirmed he “made mistakes” and that is going to be his undoing. I do not believe there is no dna or forensic evidence he would have needed to be wearing a forensic suit for him not to leave behind some evidence. Being caught on video on Liberty’s phone was a massive blunder and who knows what other mistakes he made.

All of this is so very true!

Realistically, crimes are solved by the mistakes of the offenders, the ability of LE to recognize those mistakes, and the legal community’s ability to articulate them.

 

[Maplesyrup]

Wow. I just thought of something. If BG drove a car and parked it...and LE is fishing to find out WHO was in the car...and if it is a company car of some sort...then that car is guaranteed to be filled with DNA from OTHER people which in turn will likely transfer onto BG's clothing. For example, BG sits in the car, throws his coat in the back seat. Let's say the man or woman who drove it before them had their 16 year old daughter in the backseat with her bag from cross country.. that happens to have dog hair on it from her sleep over the night before at her friend's house. Now imagine BG had stuff pitched in the backseat of that same car the day HE drove it. Now we have DNA transfer onto HIS clothing from the dog hair, teenage girl hair, fuzz from the wool blanket that may have been back there, etc. Now...BG gets his stuff together, has that transferred hair, fuzz, dog hair, etc on his jacket, pants, whatever. Now he goes and takes control of the girls. In the struggle he transfers the DNA out of the car ONTO one of the girls. Now you have a stranger's DNA showing up in the mix. This could be why that car is so important. They could have another girl's hair, someone's neighbor's dog hair, someone else's wool blanket fuzz, etc. I can imagine what a total mess that would create in a courtroom.

 

[Charlot123]

If he turns out older, 30 or 40 I Agree.

My opinion only:
I now think BG is a Patterson type, young, modern killer.

CSI savvy, left virtually no "footprint"... No DNA, no video for his approach or exit from the trail by door bell cams or gas stations etc., no cell movement-didnt take victims cell, a speedy athletic crime.

Instead of shooting up a school this assailant kills some girls on trail for power.
A First Person Killer.
And likely to known the girls at least as an aquaintance since it ups his high on betrayal of norms.

Rather close to what I feel.
However, I think he is an introvert, but pretends better than Patterson.

His goal might be very different, though. Not sure he is a gamer. Could be, but seems that he has the time to self-reflect, too. Gamers usually have no such time.

I still don’t understand what mainly drove JP. Was it sexual attraction, or immature imaginary dream - the need to get a girlfriend that he never had in his life? Or did merely he want a female gaming partner? He comes like an incredibly childish murderer, and we don’t know if he would have turned into a SK of young women. (Could have, as he killed two adults for her. The opposite could also be true, and haven’t we heard the ballads about stupid, dirty, medieval knights killing everyone around to worship their Fair Ladies? What I want to say, such type of murderers exists). But - I don’t think JP’s main motivator was control, rather, such intense loneliness that it altered all reality. It comes with living in emotional deprivation.

With BG, what was his motivator? Did he ever have a relationship with a woman, is he drawn to younger ones? Is he angry with women because of prior betrayal? Or is he not interested in women at all, and is rageful because he can’t accept it in himself? He might be hunting them to prove to himself that he is not what he internally feels he might be. People usually post that BG killed the girls rapidly and had no time to do anything else. But I am thinking, what if he could not do anything else, either way, because inside, he was not even interested?

(It seems that SKs tend to attack the gender they prefer. But this murder reeks of such rage towards women that it makes me wonder.)

 

[Charlot123]

Wow. I just thought of something. If BG drove a car and parked it...and LE is fishing to find out WHO was in the car...and if it is a company car of some sort...then that car is guaranteed to be filled with DNA from OTHER people which in turn will likely transfer onto BG's clothing. For example, BG sits in the car, throws his coat in the back seat. Let's say the man or woman who drove it before them had their 16 year old daughter in the backseat with her bag from cross country.. that happens to have dog hair on it from her sleep over the night before at her friend's house. Now imagine BG had stuff pitched in the backseat of that same car the day HE drove it. Now we have DNA transfer onto HIS clothing from the dog hair, teenage girl hair, fuzz from the wool blanket that may have been back there, etc. Now...BG gets his stuff together, has that transferred hair, fuzz, dog hair, etc on his jacket, pants, whatever. Now he goes and takes control of the girls. In the struggle he transfers the DNA out of the car ONTO one of the girls. Now you have a stranger's DNA showing up in the mix. This could be why that car is so important. They could have another girl's hair, someone's neighbor's dog hair, someone else's wool blanket fuzz, etc. I can imagine what a total mess that would create in a courtroom.

Unless it was a taxicab, and I doubt it was, presence of animal DNA (even from the coat of a prior driver) would be a plus. Animals are more stationary than people. Finding an animal of the person who drove it the day before the perp did
is a lot.

And I think commercial vehicles have logs of drivers, so it is easier with them. It would seem the opposite, something like a family van, and several people providing the alibi for one another.