Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #115

[kc1023]

After reading Hockeymom’s post from last night, and thinking about the recurring question of whether or not BG could be a serial killer, I was wondering what all your thoughts are on this:

If cell phones with cameras and audio/video recording capabilities had been around when they all were active, do you think being recorded by a victim, like BG was by Liberty, would have put an end to other serial killers’ crime sprees? Would it have been enough to make someone stop? If it were almost 3 years past the crime and they hadn’t been arrested, would it have just made them more brazen and feel like they wouldn’t get caught? Would it have deterred people like Bundy, Radar, Keyes, Gacey, Little? Others?

~RIP M+J

I think a lot of SKs probably have a relentless urge that they cannot control so I will say, no, I don't think it would have stopped them. While they may have taken a step back temporarily to regroup and let the heat die down, I think ultimately they would adapt and be more careful the next time.

ETA: That was a really, really great post by hockymom!!

 

[gregjrichards]

After reading Hockeymom’s post from last night, and thinking about the recurring question of whether or not BG could be a serial killer, I was wondering what all your thoughts are on this:

If cell phones with cameras and audio/video recording capabilities had been around when they all were active, do you think being recorded by a victim, like BG was by Liberty, would have put an end to other serial killers’ crime sprees? Would it have been enough to make someone stop? If it were almost 3 years past the crime and they hadn’t been arrested, would it have just made them more brazen and feel like they wouldn’t get caught? Would it have deterred people like Bundy, Radar, Keyes, Gacey, Little? Others?

~RIP M+J

I have often wondered why he has stopped although the last two and a 1/2 years have felt like an eternity to us it really isn’t that long a time period. I think he probably wants to attack and kill again but doesn’t want to chance his luck right now and/or the right opportunity has not presented itself again.

In regards to being recorded by Liberty it was probably a shock to him but he might feel the released image of him is so poor and unrecognisable he got lucky. Possibly being recorded must be a concern for these monsters though because it isn’t enough to just smash a phone up or dispose of it if the victim is on social media/FaceTime or taking photos/video immediately prior to being attacked and they are being saved to iCloud snapchat apps etc.

 

[HockeyMom330]

I have often wondered why he has stopped although the last two and a 1/2 years have felt like an eternity to us it really isn’t that long a time period. I think he probably wants to attack and kill again but doesn’t want to chance his luck right now and/or the right opportunity has not presented itself again.

In regards to being recorded by Liberty it was probably a shock to him but he might feel the released image of him is so poor and unrecognisable he got lucky. Possibly being recorded must be a concern for these monsters though because it isn’t enough to just smash a phone up or dispose of it if the victim is on social media/FaceTime or taking photos/video immediately prior to being attacked and they are being saved to iCloud snapchat apps etc.

I think you make many valid points worth emphasizing.

First, 2 1/2 years without another murder "really isn't a long period of time". As I mentioned in my previous post, serial killers will go through a cooling off phase. Take the case of Jesse Mathews who murdered Morgan Harrington in 2009 and Hannah Graham in 2014 as an example. Nearly 5 years passed between these similar murders. In that time JM held down respectable jobs, dated, and even coached youth football. BG might also be flying under the radar, going about his ordinary business--hiding in plain sight.

Another great point is that "the right opportunity has not presented itself again". Maybe BG has wanted to kill again, and maybe has come close, but has not found the right victim(s) in the right context, under the right circumstances. I think it would be brazen for him to return to the Monon High Bridge/Trails to troll for new victims, yet killers often operate within a familiar zone of comfort so I also wouldn't be surprised if he has returned to the vicinity to scout it out.

 

[sunshineray]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but incels haven't made it into the DSM...what are we on, five or six, yet? They are hate filled, not because mommy and daddy didn't love them enough, but because they didn't get their way sexually with one or more girls or women. Their singular goal is to kill as many females as they can. I don't pity them by any stretch. I've listened to some of the trash that they produce and put out on the web to 'encorage' each other. All I hear are narcissistic psychopaths who are convinced that the only reason a female would reject them is because she's too stupid and pathetic to understand how lucky she is to be merely in their presence. The incel who killed in California and uploaded a video manifesto shortly beforehand, was around 20. He had a life full of advantages and privileges that most people would never even dream of. moo, incels aren't unloved, they're entitled, selfish misogynists.

I guess my heart aches for the young man who's an involuntary celibate because he lives an awkward and isolated existence minus any real parental help or peer companionship. I don't condone that darker web fraternity of violence. Not every young male who is involuntarily celibate is a killer in waiting. It's the socially isolated young who develop mental illness that draw my sympathy. Can they be influenced by that darker web vile talk? I say yes, definitely. I do not condone their actions when they turn violent but I try to understand them as something more than just pure evil. And there is pure evil in the world.

I don't know what BG is all about, why he chose to kill, whether isolation or mental illness played a part. There very well could be illness not evilness involved. I would have sympathy for that person.

 

[sunshineray]

I totally agree with you, to just pick "3 months" out of thin air seems strange, I think I would have just naturally said "months ago" unless I had a specific reason to quantify. I'm wondering if she has a POI in mind, and am wondering what that person had going on in July...hmm??

I wonder if there's local thought surrounding that individual arrested on child molestation charges in August having a connection to the Delphi girls?

 

[sunshineray]

Interesting question. IMO, for some cases, I don't think really anything short of being arrested or dying would have stopped them. Determining factors like why they killed, their mental health, etc. could play a role. As far as BG, who's likely now aware he was filmed, it might depend wholly on what his motive for killing was to begin with.

It very well could have had been a determining factor to him stopping. If because of that original image and audio being released BG's family recognized him, confronted him and he confessed to them...they could be protecting him.

 

[TL4S]

I think you make many valid points worth emphasizing.

First, 2 1/2 years without another murder "really isn't a long period of time". As I mentioned in my previous post, serial killers will go through a cooling off phase. Take the case of Jesse Mathews who murdered Morgan Harrington in 2009 and Hannah Graham in 2014 as an example. Nearly 5 years passed between these similar murders. In that time JM held down respectable jobs, dated, and even coached youth football. BG might also be flying under the radar, going about his ordinary business--hiding in plain sight.

Another great point is that "the right opportunity has not presented itself again". Maybe BG has wanted to kill again, and maybe has come close, but has not found the right victim(s) in the right context, under the right circumstances. I think it would be brazen for him to return to the Monon High Bridge/Trails to troll for new victims, yet killers often operate within a familiar zone of comfort so I also wouldn't be surprised if he has returned to the vicinity to scout it out.

It's also possible, I suppose, that he has committed murder since. Somewhere else, somehow not connected.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

This is a true story of mine from a month ago:

Recently, I found a Garmin GPS watch at a lake near my home. The watch was muddy and the power did not come on but it was in good shape. I ordered a charger for it and charged the watch. Then I downloaded the Garmin program off their website and synced the watch to the newly downloaded program on my computer.

In the workout calendar history of the watch was the GPS path on a Google map for all the places this person had run in 2019. They had been in California - six cities, Nevada, Florida, and London. This person had run ½ marathons and skied, so I knew they were quite athletic and they traveled. One of the places this person commonly initiated and ended runs was on a street a few miles from the lake where I found the watch. I then checked Spokeo, an on-line people search application.

In Spokeo, I could enter an address and see who the residents were in the homes. I entered two addresses in Spokeo for the two houses closest to the spot where the GPS map showed this runner started their runs from and got a couple of names. Spokeo also shows a picture if there is one matched from an on-line social media site like Facebook that they can link to the person.

The second address searched returned a picture of a man who was finishing a marathon. This man had parent’s that lived in Florida. Spokeo also provides emails and phone numbers so I called and left a message for the guy. He called me back and was happy that I had found his watch. He had lost the watch while wake boarding in July.

It took about five minutes to identify this stranger once I could view the watch data.
______________

Spokeo has changed their user interface and functionality from a five or so years ago. They removed the easy to view relationship map. They removed the user id search function. They reduced the social media search returns. Basically, they gutted and reduced the quality of the product available to the public. I'm sure that functionality is still available for use by the government and the private sector along with other integrated personal data.

Snowden risked his life to expose Constitutional privacy violations on a massive scale. His information forced Congress to pass laws that limit the mass collection of our data. More protections need to be put in place, but at least the American public were aware of the programs and lies made by NSA and CIA officials.

I love using data for good like returning a watch and finding criminals but that same data can be used to violate people's privacy. Once computers are networked like they are on the internet, it is quite easy for them to be compromised and remotely controlled and accessed. All data that streams to or from your computer on-line must go through servers. At any point during it's path to or from your device, the data can be intercepted and stored. Once a system is accessed, anything on it can be viewed unless it is encrypted, which very few people bother to do.

I tend to believe Snowden.

I have heard this claim before that very few people bother to encrypt their data. I just don't buy into it.

I'm curious how many of you have an unencrypted server or use a public server? Before I walk out of my door, I shut off the wi-fi on my phone so it won't try to connect to a public, free, or complimentary service. I'm also hyper vigilant about app permissions. I don't think I'm out of the norm. Thoughts? Sorry for the O/T post.

 

[Spartygirl]

After reading Hockeymom’s post from last night, and thinking about the recurring question of whether or not BG could be a serial killer, I was wondering what all your thoughts are on this:

If cell phones with cameras and audio/video recording capabilities had been around when they all were active, do you think being recorded by a victim, like BG was by Liberty, would have put an end to other serial killers’ crime sprees? Would it have been enough to make someone stop? If it were almost 3 years past the crime and they hadn’t been arrested, would it have just made them more brazen and feel like they wouldn’t get caught? Would it have deterred people like Bundy, Radar, Keyes, Gacey, Little? Others?

~RIP M+J

OOOHHH...Great post and I need to think about all of this today.

 

[Spartygirl]

I have often wondered why he has stopped although the last two and a 1/2 years have felt like an eternity to us it really isn’t that long a time period. I think he probably wants to attack and kill again but doesn’t want to chance his luck right now and/or the right opportunity has not presented itself again.

In regards to being recorded by Liberty it was probably a shock to him but he might feel the released image of him is so poor and unrecognisable he got lucky. Possibly being recorded must be a concern for these monsters though because it isn’t enough to just smash a phone up or dispose of it if the victim is on social media/FaceTime or taking photos/video immediately prior to being attacked and they are being saved to iCloud snapchat apps etc.

BBM--do we know if he has stopped ??? If it is someone familiar with Delphi, but travels the country, we don't know for sure if there are other victims. Just throwing this out here.
I personally, think it was an isolated, targeted double murder. JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I wonder if there's local thought surrounding that individual arrested on child molestation charges in August having a connection to the Delphi girls?

Well, we know there is connection but could he be BG ??? I haven't crossed it off my POI list yet

 

[Charlot123]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but incels haven't made it into the DSM...what are we on, five or six, yet? They are hate filled, not because mommy and daddy didn't love them enough, but because they didn't get their way sexually with one or more girls or women. Their singular goal is to kill as many females as they can. I don't pity them by any stretch. I've listened to some of the trash that they produce and put out on the web to 'encorage' each other. All I hear are narcissistic psychopaths who are convinced that the only reason a female would reject them is because she's too stupid and pathetic to understand how lucky she is to be merely in their presence. The incel who killed in California and uploaded a video manifesto shortly beforehand, was around 20. He had a life full of advantages and privileges that most people would never even dream of. moo, incels aren't unloved, they're entitled, selfish misogynists.

Incels haven't made it into the DSM, and won't. They are probably pretty much like Jake Patterson. With own perception of the world, social/emotional dysfunction, and worse, never diagnosed or treated. This is where the risk factor is. They grow up and know that they are different, but no one offers any help or support.

In my state, there is a lot of support, not only from the parental groups or organizations. Major companies are investing into help to people with social or learning disabilities. Schools are aware, big time. But our state is unlike any other, in many ways.

If the kid grows up in some emotional/social fog, if he is bullied at school, if he tries to join the mainstream community (JP joined the army/navy system) but is discharged because he does not fit, and no one offers diagnosis/help/support, then why is it surprising that a very tiny percent will go astray? Some will join incel community, some will try other means. It is a tiny percent, but in is a concerning tiny percent because a young suicidal man with homicidal plans can do a lot of harm, needless to say.

About the age. Statistically, if this group does not perform any violent act before 24, the chance later is way, way lower. Steven Pollock stands out, but we don't know what triggered him (gambling debt? Early dementia? Who will tell us...).

Don't be upset with me. My post is not to support or condone incels, merely to point out that early intervention is the key.

 

[Ipurrender]

That "one tip" may already have come in perhaps... but a second good tip wouldn't hurt, either, and LE may be in no big hurry, espec if they feel the girls were targeted (as do I).

LE may be just shoring things up, their eye on assuring a conviction rather than arresting prematurely if they still have evidence being tested ("we are just now beginning") or if they are waiting for some personal alliances to break down in order to get someone (or a group of people?) to break down and talk.

Something stunning happened to bring about that 4/22 PC.

Rather than feel dismayed to see NBG's face (the sketch) I see it as a major breakthrough. Someone LIED to LE. They KNOW that now.

I think the car request is, as someone else suggested here, a means to ascertain which specific males were in the vicinity of the suspect vehicle that day at that time... to help in narrowing things down from a wider group of suspects certain evidentiary results may have handed them.

I think the vehicle carried BG and one other person. Maybe that person hung out while BG was with the girls. It wasn't supposed to end this way, IMO. Now this "other person" (NBG) is afraid to OUT BG. The NBG sketch may be of this other person (who was seen by someone in the vicinity of the car that day) ... this person may have been indirectly "responsible for the murders" ... yet is not himself BG.

LE may have lied when they said NBG sketch is the person on bridge with girls, to prompt BG to act (in order to protect NBG, whom BG knows was not on bridge). Maybe they are not really the same person, it's instead a ruse LE is using to force BG to talk or act?


Maybe BG was there to intercept the girls for some reason and things got way out of hand. Maybe girls knew sonething. Or maybe something had happened between one of the girls and "the other person" (NBG) such as (an example only!) an earlier SA or physical contact, something along those lines... so BG was trying to "fix" it but was too forceful, girls fought back, injury occurred, BG then felt he had to finish things off, and did so.

BG is not only a murderer but a coward who is letting NBG stand in as the "face" of the killer when NBG is not really the killer at all. I think LE is trying to work on BG's protective instinct toward NBG by using NBG as a fall guy but so far the cowardly BG is still not talking.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Everything you said ties in with my theories so far. I saw a post recently (not on MSM so cant post it) where someone brought up two people that could be involved and after reading it thoroughly and doing some research I 100% believe it was them. The only reason I mentioned that is because your speculation & what the post says is eerily similiar, accurate, and almost too weird to not be true!

All MOO!

 

[heartgoesout]

Hi, long time lurker from the UK in bed with flu so attempting to read all the comments on this thread. I'm in the 'Bieber haircut' mindset and I notice he appears to have a very heavy jaw, possibly an underbite? Find this heartbreaking and the last PC was fascinating to watch. He was barely keeping it together and I assume it was scripted? I've got a lot of reading to do.

If BG's hair looked like Justin Bieber, IMO the sketch would be drawn that way. That would be a huge detail to identify BG. I once believed that it was fluffy hair but when you really watch the video you can see it is light reflecting and pixelation and that it is the rim of the sweatshirt. It wouldn't go down then back up that quickly.

 

[k-mac]

this never gets old to me.
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

“There’s a lot of false information out there,” Holeman confirms.

And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

 

[Aydrianna523]

I guess my heart aches for the young man who's an involuntary celibate because he lives an awkward and isolated existence minus any real parental help or peer companionship. I don't condone that darker web fraternity of violence. Not every young male who is involuntarily celibate is a killer in waiting. It's the socially isolated young who develop mental illness that draw my sympathy. Can they be influenced by that darker web vile talk? I say yes, definitely. I do not condone their actions when they turn violent but I try to understand them as something more than just pure evil. And there is pure evil in the world.

I don't know what BG is all about, why he chose to kill, whether isolation or mental illness played a part. There very well could be illness not evilness involved. I would have sympathy for that person.

A profiler on line said most serial killers were abused as children and had a very bad relationship (or no relationship) with the parent of their own gender.
Not trying to give them an excuse. But it makes me wonder...

 

[Charlot123]

A profiler on line said most serial killers were abused as children and had a very bad relationship (or no relationship) with the parent of their own gender.
Not trying to give them an excuse. But it makes me wonder...

I wonder if in this case the parent was absent

 

[k-mac]

so..what do we think we know...that's factually wrong??

maybe if we work in reverse we can establish a picture LE have we didn't see before.

-BG was alone
-BG marched them down the hill and across the river.
- one of the girls survived the night.
-libby was hurt worse than abby.
-BG was a random predator.
-BG lured the girls there via the internet.
-BG was behind the girls and raced quickly to them.

what else?

moo

 

[PaulaDC]

I wonder if there's local thought surrounding that individual arrested on child molestation charges in August having a connection to the Delphi girls?

There is a page here for MS.

 

[moonlessnight]

my bets are not on them for this crime. or even just him.

I wonder if there's local thought surrounding that individual arrested on child molestation charges in August having a connection to the Delphi girls?