Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[ShHolmz]

Didn't LE ask the public to call if they noticed a man carrying a duffel bag around the time of the killings in the area of the MHB?? Does this mean LE saw a duffel bag at some point on the video? Do they think he put his supplies in that bag? Do they think he changed his clothes to leave the area and had his original clothing in the bag? I cannot recall which day that request was released to the public. I will keep looking.

Could this dufflebag have belonged to one of the girls? I thought I remembered that one had spent the night. Just a thought. Just a guess. No links.

 

[Fizzle]

I think your Theory 3 is most likely. But I don't believe that he was ever on the trails that day. The disaster of 2 sketches makes me question the validity of the witness statements and worry that BG was never seen at all by anyone other than the girls. Where did he come from? Most likely the cemetery. I think he (or they) knew the area, knew the clearing where the girls were found, and probably parked at the cemetery. MOO

I will say that that theory above about BG popping up out of the middle of the bridge from underneath is particularly horrifying... I hadn't realized that was a possibility. Although with people under the bridge and on top of the bridge that day, I wonder if it's really a good hiding place or if people would have spotted him there.

 

[Fizzle]

Could this dufflebag have belonged to one of the girls? I thought I remembered that one had spent the night. Just a thought. Just a guess. No links.

Abby was not carrying it. I guess Libby could have been, but I doubt they would bring it on a hike. Kelsi would know.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Could this dufflebag have belonged to one of the girls? I thought I remembered that one had spent the night. Just a thought. Just a guess. No links.

Awhile ago, I had asked if maybe Abby had an overnight bag with her on the trails. It would make sense because Kelsi dropped them off, but DG was picking them up & it’s possible they were going to take Abby home after going to the trails/bridge that day.
I never thought that the duffle bag LE asked about was maybe one of the girls, thought it was BG’s.
Good thought! MOO
ETA: My thoughts as far as Abby’s overnight bag came from the clothing that was found in the creek. I have been hoping Abby dropped it while being forced “down the hill”...that would explain the clothing in the creek & a small chance those clothes were not there due to SA. MOO

 

[MingyMoo]

Awhile ago, I had asked if maybe Abby had an overnight bag with her on the trails. It would make sense because Kelsi dropped them off, but DG was picking them up & it’s possible they were going to take Abby home after going to the trails/bridge that day.
I never thought that the duffle bag LE asked about was maybe one of the girls, thought it was BG’s.
Good thought! MOO

I dont think so Abbie's Mum was going to pick her up after she finished work. One of the James Renner interviews.

MM

 

[crhedBngr]

Does anyone know, can we link Truth Tellers site? They have some info that I've been trying to find elsewhere. Libby's grandma was interviewed saying when she got to the trails to look for the girls there were a few kids she knew, from going to school with Libby, under the bridge. Anyone know if this is possibly a transcript of a GH interview? TIA

I'd ask a Mod about that. I don't believe we're allowed to do so, because this site is a blog and not MSM, but it's worth investigating.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I dont think so Abbie's Mum was going to pick her up after she finished work. One of the James Renner interviews.

MM

Well that is upsetting & news to me...if that’s true...then this is worse than I thought. I have been holding onto hope there was no SA.
ETA: After watching Kelsi’s debunking video, among other reasons, I don’t particularly rely on JR’s interviews.

 

[somequestions]

Very thorough & just the fact that you included the “missing” 23 mins has really got my attention.
IIRC BP & MP have both stated the girls were at the trails/bridge taking photos. We must consider that they were stopping along the way, Libby was taking photos & the girls were talking. Let’s assume they were also checking Libby’s phone, maybe texting friends, checking SM, looking at memes, etc. We need to also consider that they are not walking at a brisk pace. They are leisurely walking toward the bridge. This is when I believe BG either saw them or he could hear them. I think he hid out of view & once they got closer, he came out of the woods...that in itself would be creepy to me...maybe it startled the girls seeing him coming out of the woods? (I believe he was already at those trails prior to the girls arriving.) He walks by them & waits until the girls are at the other end. The girls took their time crossing the bridge as Abby is trying to be cautious due to the condition of the bridge. Libby, I think, is probably use to it & has no issues crossing at a decent pace, so she is walking ahead of Abby, taking photos. The girls reach the end & BG is already coming towards them...he makes his move...
IDK where the heck he parked his vehicle, IDK where he exited the trails but I am 100% certain he was at those trails prior to the girls, waiting for the most vulnerable of victims...
Not as thorough as your well thought out post, but I hope it makes sense. All just my own thoughts, right or wrong. MOO

I guess we just have to consider the possibility that the killer got lucky. After contacting the girls on the trail he remained at least 5 minutes behind them so as to not be seen in the Snapchat photo taken at 2:07pm. Why do I say 5 minutes? It looks to take at least 5 minutes to walk across that bridge at a brisk pace according to another youtube video.

And the amount of time between when the girls crossed paths with the killer, whether it was just seeing him and being creeped out, may be even longer. Why do I think that?

What is the time stamp for the beginning of the Liberty German video of this bridge guy? You take that and minus the timestamp(2:07pm) of the Snapchat photo and you should come up with a conclusion about how far the guy was behind or "waiting" on the trail, if you think I am correct in the conclusion that in order for Liberty German to think something is strange she would have had to be close enough to recognize him in the first place.

Or the killer was already in the southeast area at the end of the bridge when he first encountered Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

 

[Falcon500]

Absolutely agree. But it's not merely voice as variable. Added audio snippets means vocabulary, inflection, emotion, pauses or lack thereof, transitions, etc.



It is beyond shameful that so much is being withheld. But again, we live in an era of fear. Since fear is so popular nobody is properly criticized for defaulting to it time and again, especially law enforcement. You've actually got citizens who are so brainwashed toward fear they approve and applaud of fear and restraint from higher ups. It shows in this thread and elsewhere where this type of crime is discussed.

What is being withheld that would lead to the solution of this case?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I guess we just have to consider the possibility that the killer got lucky. After contacting the girls on the trail he remained at least 5 minutes behind them so as to not be seen in the Snapchat photo taken at 2:07pm. Why do I say 5 minutes? It looks to take at least 5 minutes to walk across that bridge at a brisk pace according to another youtube video.

And the amount of time between when the girls crossed paths with the killer, whether it was just seeing him and being creeped out, may be even longer. Why do I think that?

What is the time stamp for the beginning of the Liberty German video of this bridge guy? You take that and minus the timestamp(2:07pm) of the Snapchat photo and you should come up with a conclusion about how far the guy was behind or "waiting" on the trail, if you think I am correct in the conclusion that in order for Liberty German to think something is strange she would have had to be close enough to recognize him in the first place.

Or the killer was already in the southeast area at the end of the bridge when he first encountered Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

Do you think he passed them on the bridge & turned around??

 

[BradB]

Unfortunately, I just dont see this case being solved. I think there is absolutely nothing to go on even with video and audio because the guy is just too basic and resembles a lot of white males in the entire state of Indiana. Even if you try to take somebody to court all these years later it's going to be hard to convict because of this unless they really do have dna like they say but even that I question. They said a lot of things that have turned out to be just talk.

To be fair, I wouldn't know where to turn even if I had all the resources and evidence available other than waiting on some tip or some piece of information where the guy opened his mouth.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

What is being withheld that would lead to the solution of this case?

Outstanding question, @Falcon500!

 

[pearl]

What is being withheld that would lead to the solution of this case?

Any additional audio or video information from Libby's cell phone not to include the actual murders. Also any other significant pictures from that day that may be on the phone.

 

[somequestions]

Do you think he passed them on the bridge & turned around??

Yes I think the bridge guy went to cross the Monon High Bridge to the northwest, but only to get a look ahead to see if anyone was on their way down the trail. Once he determined they were alone, he turned around to head back southeast on the bridge and Liberty German captured him walking back towards them.

I base what I think statistically on that equation I wrote about above: timestamp of beginning of Liberty German's bridge guy video minus the timestamp of the Snapchat picture(2:07pm).

LE has this info I am sure. Unfortunately we can only guess about that equation. So either the killer is very patient or Liberty German and Abigail Williams encountered their killer somewhere in the area behind Liberty German on the Monon High Bridge sometime after 2:07 pm.

 

[somequestions]

Do you think he passed them on the bridge & turned around??

There is still one thing that does not make sense. If the story about Abby asking Libby if that creepy guy is still behind her is true, Abby would probably not ask that if she were standing next to or behind Libby. So maybe that is what caught Libby's eye? The man on the bridge may have turned around to follow her friend. So she videotapes it as much as she can. Abby gets to the end and asks the question to Libby about whether the man is still following her. Then they try to see if they can go any further down the trail and Libby tells Abby they are at the end. It is a theory.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

What is being withheld that would lead to the solution of this case?

That is certainly the fear-based perspective and law-enforcement apologetic perspective.

I prefer the D. Wayne Lukas perspective, to name a famous horse racing trainer. When asked why he continues to run so many races while into his 80s, Lukas replied, "You can't win if you don't enter."

Law enforcement in this case is seemingly afraid of everything except giving the public full opportunity to surprise them.

 

[Falling Down]

I guess we just have to consider the possibility that the killer got lucky. After contacting the girls on the trail he remained at least 5 minutes behind them so as to not be seen in the Snapchat photo taken at 2:07pm. Why do I say 5 minutes? It looks to take at least 5 minutes to walk across that bridge at a brisk pace according to another youtube video.

And the amount of time between when the girls crossed paths with the killer, whether it was just seeing him and being creeped out, may be even longer. Why do I think that?

What is the time stamp for the beginning of the Liberty German video of this bridge guy? You take that and minus the timestamp(2:07pm) of the Snapchat photo and you should come up with a conclusion about how far the guy was behind or "waiting" on the trail, if you think I am correct in the conclusion that in order for Liberty German to think something is strange she would have had to be close enough to recognize him in the first place.

Or the killer was already in the southeast area at the end of the bridge when he first encountered Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

My theory since early on has been that they passed him on the trail, he hung back for some time to make sure nobody was behind him, made sure nobody parked at the tiny parking area, etc. That way he had his window of opportunity to make his way towards the bridge as the girls were making their way across, with no witnesses for what he was about to do.

The above scenario fits into my theory he'd been there before, had 'practiced' the abduction, and had picked out a place to murder someone or in this case, two juveniles. I think BG had a fantasy, and the trap he planned to set to carry it out was at the end of the bridge. Corner someone there, then force them to walk to the CS.

The time between first contact and the girls noticing him at the other end of the bridge was sufficient enough for him to prep for the attack.

JMO

 

[PaulaDC]

Feb. 13th online post, some older info about the murders and investigation interspersed with newer info, keep in mind this is pre-April 2019 press conference:

https://www.investigationdiscovery....the-right-person-in-investigation-of-delphi-s

Now this article gives conflicting info by claiming all the family members have been cleared.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

The main question I had concerned what the girls were doing until 2:07 pm if it only takes 4 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge?

Four minutes sounds exceptionally quick. You can certainly do it within that range if that's your stopwatch purpose. It sounds like something a sloppy YouTuber would film.

But I always like to keep track of real-world situational influence. I think I estimated 7-8 minutes in that Reddit thread. That would be normal duration for two girls chatting and having relaxed fun while walking a trail during a chilly afternoon on their day off.

Since it apparently required considerably longer than that, then Abby and Libby must have either delayed near the trailhead or along one of the trails. It didn't have to be the main 501 trail. They could have proceeded beyond the trailhead and checked out the creek below at right. It winds around in that area.

Any number of possibilities. Also, regarding that 2:07 timestamp the poster bitterbeatpoet on Reddit replied to me the other day that 2:07 isn't necessarily the time the picture was taken and posted. He said it was the time the picture was opened and viewed by one of Libby's Snapchat friends. He even mentioned her name, although I don't remember it.

I don't know anything about Snapchat so I can merely relay what others have said.

Otherwise:

* If Bridge Guy was on the railing under the bridge or urinating on the bridge or anything so outlandish and scary, Abby and Libby would not have waited for him at the end of the bridge. No chance of that. The reason this played out as it did was they were expecting awkward end of the normal range, and nothing more than that. Always default to normalcy and not 1000 additional variables as more likely instead of less likely. The reason the sucker books sell so well in the JFK case and DB Cooper case, etc. is that so many people want to grasp the most bizarre version

* I heard plenty of gunfire in Monticello but not in Delphi. There was obviously a firing range nearby in Monticello. It was startling me in Monticello but none of the locals were reacting at all

 

[BNA]

Very thorough & just the fact that you included the “missing” 23 mins has really got my attention.
IIRC BP & MP have both stated the girls were at the trails/bridge taking photos. We must consider that they were stopping along the way, Libby was taking photos & the girls were talking. Let’s assume they were also checking Libby’s phone, maybe texting friends, checking SM, looking at memes, etc. We need to also consider that they are not walking at a brisk pace. They are leisurely walking toward the bridge. This is when I believe BG either saw them or he could hear them. I think he hid out of view & once they got closer, he came out of the woods...that in itself would be creepy to me...maybe it startled the girls seeing him coming out of the woods? (I believe he was already at those trails prior to the girls arriving.) He walks by them & waits until the girls are at the other end. The girls took their time crossing the bridge as Abby is trying to be cautious due to the condition of the bridge. Libby, I think, is probably use to it & has no issues crossing at a decent pace, so she is walking ahead of Abby, taking photos. The girls reach the end & BG is already coming towards them...he makes his move...
IDK where the heck he parked his vehicle, IDK where he exited the trails but I am 100% certain he was at those trails prior to the girls, waiting for the most vulnerable of victims...
Not as thorough as your well thought out post, but I hope it makes sense. All just my own thoughts, right or wrong. MOO

So where are the other photos?