Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[Evinrude]

I have never doubted LE’s desire to solve this case. They obviously were greatly affected by the crime scene and I know their hearts are in the right place. But as one year turned into two years something was very wrong, we all felt it. On April 22 2019, LE, in my opinion, admitted it to the world...they messed up this investigation. How? We don’t know exactly, but Libby and Abby deserve better than this. Instead of spending the next two years trying to recoup the last two years, release some information! Let the public help you!

Small town! Where everybody knows everybody.
Unfortunately this hurts an investigation.
Youd turn your head to any relation of the “good ole boys club” and focus on the person(s) who may be the obvious culprit.
Ive seen it my own town, still. Not for murders but for any kid who comes from a prominent family. Crimes that usually make the paper are swept under the rug, time and again.
Not eating this is what happened but I can see where LE would not take any lead from such a person seriously bit rather keep there focus on the obvious.
Id assume ISP and FBI wouldnt be phased by this, even if local LE whispered in their ear that this person or that person would never do such a thing.

not saying this happened but I can see where it easily could. We are all guilty of this in one way or another.

 

[Evinrude]

I have never doubted LE’s desire to solve this case. They obviously were greatly affected by the crime scene and I know their hearts are in the right place. But as one year turned into two years something was very wrong, we all felt it. On April 22 2019, LE, in my opinion, admitted it to the world...they messed up this investigation. How? We don’t know exactly, but Libby and Abby deserve better than this. Instead of spending the next two years trying to recoup the last two years, release some information! Let the public help you
DDP

 

[BNA]

By the way, hands in the pocket crossing a bridge like that is NOT a natural posture. You leave your arms out to the side for both balance and to catch yourself if you stumble.

He definitely was concealing and stabilizing a weapon in his jacket pocket.

I've stated before....he could also just be holding up his pants to prevent them from falling to his knees. I have found myself doing that while taking log walks....as the pounds slip away from the exercise over time.

 

[Boxer]

The news of new evidence going to FBI last year was published in Radar On Line. An odd choice for giving out news to the public.

 

[Boxer]

By the way, hands in the pocket crossing a bridge like that is NOT a natural posture. You leave your arms out to the side for both balance and to catch yourself if you stumble.

He definitely was concealing and stabilizing a weapon in his jacket pocket.

Not so sure, all the local males I have seen photos of on the bridge have their hands stuffed in their front pockets. I will find one for you if the stories are still up.

 

[Boxer]

Here is a photo of two local men on the bridge, on the top of the article.

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

 

[JenniD]

Been reading through the threads tonight and feeling very sad that it’s almost Christmas and Abby and Libby’s family still have no answers as to who or why their beautiful girls were taken from them.
I have also been thinking about some posters who come on WS for a very short time- seem to be from the Delphi area or at least it seems that way- they have a vast amount of information and then Poof...they are gone. I always get an uneasy feeling about those posters -maybe it’s just me
I still have my original POI but I must admit I have doubted myself many times. My POI would seem like the most unlikely person on the surface but researching his past I do believe he is a troubled young man with lots of issues. I have discounted him somewhat over the last few months as he is taller than the projected killer- then today I went back and looked at some screenshots I had saved from the day the girls were found and he is at the fire station volunteering for the search. I noticed 3 things that really hit me. 1- he had the right hair color and Bieber haircut which is now changed-it’s lighter and shorter. 2-He is also wearing jeans that look to be baggy on him and too long. 3- He walks with his body leaning forward, head down, and in the photos does not appear nearly as tall as I know he is.
Just a lot of rambling here and strictly my own opinion
I am waivering between one perp or two. There is no evidence that I am aware to indicate two perps but the change in the sketches makes me wonder. One other thing that probably means absolutely nothing but one of those things I just can’t get out of my head-my POI has a friend/acquaintance who to me looks very much like NBG sketch and this person has a younger sister who looks like she could be Abby’s twin
I know there is nothing to back these feelings up but it’s one of those things I just can’t shake
Strictly MOO

 

[kkdj]

bump

 

[stattlich1]

courts.IN.gov: Odyssey Case Management System

 

[minazoe]

hmmm Jenni, I find your post very thoughtful and interesting..anyone reading here should
give some thought to some of your insights.

I know I will. mOO

 

[HockeyMom330]

I've read a couple references to how "complex" or "complicated" this investigation is.

I wonder what it is that is making it so.

One person of interest, one video, one voice recording, one crime scene, a DA that says what he said, referenced several posts back.

My opinion, and MOO, the "complex" piece revolves around DNA evidence. I speculate there was more than one, possibly numerous, DNA samples at the scene, and LE is having extreme difficulty determining who did what.

Or the DNA they have has been ruled out as to potential suspects.
Or the DNA they have has yet to be matched to the killer.
Or they simply do not have enough measurable DNA to make a definitive determination
Or they lost the DNA

BBM

Especially we are talking about touch DNA then it is highly likely that there were numerous samples found on the girl's clothing/bodies or at the crime scene. At the very least you would expect to find DNA from Abby and Libby plus everyone who lived in the Patty's home (BP, MP, KG, DG, and CP), including pets, since the girls spent the night before there. Anna's DNA was probably on Abby, as well as any males in Anna's life, just from sharing the same living space. Since the girls wore sweaters lent to them by Kelsi (which she retrieved from the back of her car) there could be DNA from anyone else who borrowed them or anyone who sat in the backseat--possibly Kelsi's boyfriend or other male friends.

DNA from searchers and LE could be at the crime scene if it was not processed carefully (or even if a stray hair was shed in the process). If there were any items found near the trails (for example, a cigarette butt or empty soda can), which may or may not have any relevance to the case, it stands to reason that they could have DNA on them that is possibly unknown. Also, it has been reported that there were other people at the bridge/trails that day. Anyone could have spit or urinated in the woods, leaving DNA near the crime scene.

IMO LE has too many DNA samples, and lacks something significant--like semen or a comingling of bodily fluids from victim and suspect.

 

[Mike Britton]

What do you think their change of investigative strategy was all about?

Maybe someone was brought in for questioning, someone who had an alibi provided by their parents, and displayed acute interest in the case. He may have even asked LE questions about what they had.

Later, when DN was cleared and it became obvious to LE and the world that the first sketch was an amalgamation rather than an actual person, they made the decision to move back to this individual.

 

[megsan]

FBI and ISP were theinvestigating entities, if they wanted to find a third agency for a review of their work, GBI seems logical.

Added bonus, since MOO BG's accent seems southern mid Indiana Kentucky/Tennessee to Northern Georgia, GBI might have a suspect in another matter that might come to light.

If the FBI linguistics expert said the individual in the audio has a Georgia accent going to the GBI would make sense.

 

[margarita25]

Retired homicide investigator offers insights into how Delphi double murder case might be solved
FEBRUARY 17, 2017

“”The first thing you look for is a motive,” said retired IMPD homicide captain Robert Snow. “Quite often, 90 percent of the time that will lead you to a suspect.”

Focusing on everyone who knew the two victims, Abigail Williams and Liberty German, is another critical early step.

“In any case you always look at the victim too. Not that they`re responsible, but you want to know who were they interacting with,” said Snow.

Snow doesn`t have any inside information about the Carroll County deaths, but says truly random killings are very unusual.

“If it turns out to be a random case, that makes it much more difficult because the motive isn't there to point to someone,” said Snow.”

 

[Falling Down]

By the way, hands in the pocket crossing a bridge like that is NOT a natural posture. You leave your arms out to the side for both balance and to catch yourself if you stumble.

He definitely was concealing and stabilizing a weapon in his jacket pocket.

x2. Agreed.

 

[Falling Down]

Retired homicide investigator offers insights into how Delphi double murder case might be solved
FEBRUARY 17, 2017

“”The first thing you look for is a motive,” said retired IMPD homicide captain Robert Snow. “Quite often, 90 percent of the time that will lead you to a suspect.”

Focusing on everyone who knew the two victims, Abigail Williams and Liberty German, is another critical early step.

“In any case you always look at the victim too. Not that they`re responsible, but you want to know who were they interacting with,” said Snow.

Snow doesn`t have any inside information about the Carroll County deaths, but says truly random killings are very unusual.

“If it turns out to be a random case, that makes it much more difficult because the motive isn't there to point to someone,” said Snow.”

Always interesting to read the perspective of a seasoned LE type on a case like this one. I just can't fathom what a "motive" would be in this case.

but says truly random killings are very unusual.

What would motivate someone to do this?

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Here is a photo of two local men on the bridge, on the top of the article.

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Thank you. But hands in pockets is not what stands out to me from that photo.

It's midday of the search, but before the bodies were found, yet nobody is visible down below. That's the standout aspect. You would think there would be search teams all over the place.

It's the reason I refuse to accept all the reports of people on the trails on the day of the murders. It simply doesn't jive at all with anything I've seen at Delphi or elsewhere. I'm not a believer in specifics when big picture generalities collide. Far more often than not, the generalities prevail. Nobody is on these trails. The reason Abby and Libby became concerned about someone on the bridge is not because he said or did anything unusual beforehand. There's another human being on the bridge, moving toward them. That is the heightened aspect all by itself.

<modsnip >

Another strange aspect from the linked photo is that the area where the bodies were found is almost visible...but not quite. It would be further around the bend of Deer Creek. Photo is taken just before the missing plank. Based on how barren the trees were in February you can see that Bridge Guy needed to take them to that spot or not far away to make sure nothing was visible from the front of the bridge. If he's been there previously and the crime scene area was part of a plan he knows the front of the bridge is the main concern. People will stop there and look at the view but go no further. If someone does proceed on the bridge then fairly soon they can't see the body site anyway, due to so many trees no matter how barren.

Also, the #5 photo at the link (arrows advance) is a decent impression of what the opposite bank looked like on the day the bodies were found. It elevates sharply just beyond the creek. The law enforcement officer in the photo appears to be looking at the bank to see if there is any evidence of where a crossing might have occurred.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Yes wow, so the former prosecutor thought a mere month after the murders, that even without the DNA and Libby's phone evidence, the investigators had enough evidence available to solve the case. What went so wrong?

Stranger on stranger crime from a non-local. That's the simple explanation and most logical. None of the traditional methods are going to lead to him.

The former prosecutor is accustomed to more common crimes that do involve locals and do involve familiarity.

 

[Boxer]

Thank you. But hands in pockets is not what stands out to me from that photo.

It's midday of the search, but before the bodies were found, yet nobody is visible down below. That's the standout aspect. You would think there would be search teams all over the place.

<modsnip>

It's the reason I refuse to accept all the reports of people on the trails on the day of the murders. It simply doesn't jive at all with anything I've seen at Delphi or elsewhere. I'm not a believer in specifics when big picture generalities collide. Far more often than not, the generalities prevail. Nobody is on these trails. The reason Abby and Libby became concerned about someone on the bridge is not because he said or did anything unusual beforehand. There's another human being on the bridge, moving toward them. That is the heightened aspect all by itsAnother strange aspect from the linked photo is that the area where the bodies were found is almost visible...but not quite. It would be further around the bend of Deer Creek. Photo is taken just before the missing plank. Based on how barren the trees were in February you can see that Bridge Guy needed to take them to that spot or not far away to make sure nothing was visible from the front of the bridge. If he's been there previously and the crime scene area was part of a plan he knows the front of the bridge is the main concern. People will stop there and look at the view but go no further. If someone does proceed on the bridge then fairly soon they can't see the body site anyway, due to so many trees no matter how barren.

Also, the #5 photo at the link (arrows advance) is a decent impression of what the opposite bank looked like on the day the bodies were found. It elevates sharply just beyond the creek. The law enforcement officer in the photo appears to be looking at the bank to see if there is any evidence of where a crossing might have occurred.

MOO The search was more organized the second day, IIRC teams were assigned in a different area morning.
MOO BG looks normal with hands in pockets and looks typical for a man from the area.

 

[gregjrichards]

Media Timeline 5 / Abby & Libby
Articles by FOX59
Feb. 14, 2017 - Oct. 24, 2019


2017

Authorities, family continue searching for missing Carroll County teens
FEBRUARY 14, 2017


Autopsies scheduled for 2 bodies found during search for missing Carroll County teens
FEBRUARY 14, 2017


Police ask for assistance in identifying man seen walking on trail where Delphi teens went missing
FEBRUARY 15, 2017


TIMELINE | Disappearance and deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi
FEBRUARY 16, 2017


Funeral arrangements set for Delphi teens
FEBRUARY 16, 2017


Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies
FEBRUARY 16, 2017


Retired homicide investigator offers insights into how Delphi double murder case might be solved
FEBRUARY 17, 2017


Man photographed on trail now officially a suspect in murders of Delphi teens
FEBRUARY 19, 2017


UPDATE: Police say photo of suspect in Delphi homicides came from teen’s phone; audio released of man’s voice
FEBRUARY 21, 2017


Desperate for Answers: Families of unsolved cases using psychics in hopes for clues
FEBRUARY 22, 2017


DNA evidence is top priority in Delphi murder investigation
FEBRUARY 23, 2017


FBI takes over for Delphi call center in double murder investigation
FEBRUARY 23, 2017


FBI launches digital billboard campaign in search for killer of Delphi teens
FEBRUARY 23, 2017


Carroll County sheriff discusses Delphi murder investigation, says DNA evidence ‘fast-tracked’
FEBRUARY 23, 2017


Investigators receive 3,900 tips in murder of Delphi teens; reward increases to $50,000
FEBRUARY 23, 2017


FBI searches Peru home regarding Delphi homicides, nothing found
FEBRUARY 25, 2017


EXCLUSIVE: State Police Superintendent: “Frustration high, professionalism even higher”
FEBRUARY 26, 2017


Donations from Pat McAfee, Jim Irsay bring Delphi reward to $200,000
MARCH 1, 2017


Grandparents of murdered Delphi teen leave emotional note at police headquarters
MARCH 1, 2017


Residents can pick up orange light bulbs to ‘light up Delphi’ as tribute to murder victims
MARCH 2, 2017


Delphi investigators grateful for community outreach
MARCH 2, 2017


Grandfather of slain Delphi teen: ‘It’s the small things that seem to hurt the most’
MARCH 9, 2017


Police continue investigation of several ‘people of interest’ a month into Delphi murder investigation
MARCH 13, 2017


Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe
MARCH 14, 2017


Authorities serve search warrant in connection with Delphi murder case
MARCH 17, 2017


Family member of murdered Delphi teen, Abby Williams, speaks out for first time
MARCH 22, 2017


Authorities begin ‘normalization’ process in Delphi double homicide investigation
MARCH 24, 2017


Abby Williams’ mom: ‘These girls were the most precious gifts we had’
MARCH 25, 2017


Owner of Delphi murder site admits to driving to county dump on day of teens’ killings
APRIL 3, 2017


Families of Delphi murder victims unveil plans for honorary softball fields, fundraiser
APRIL 27, 2017


Facebook / APRIL 27, 2017:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155371878129575

Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams
JULY 17, 2017


Facebook / JULY 17, 2017

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155664169649575

Sketch of Delphi teens’ suspected killer draws surge of tips
JULY 19, 2017


Tip in Delphi double homicide leads to arrest in decade-old cold case
AUGUST 4, 2017


Delphi tip line leads to dozens of unrelated arrests
AUGUST 4, 2017


FBI sketch spurs 6,000 tips in slayings of 2 Indiana girls
AUGUST 13, 2017


Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence
AUGUST 14, 2017


Delphi double murder unsolved, six months later
AUGUST 14, 2017


Time stands still for families of Delphi victims 6 months after murders
AUGUST 14, 2017


Person of interest in Delphi murders was living homeless in Indiana the same week girls’ bodies were found, police say
SEPTEMBER 29, 2017


Family says sketch of Delphi suspect resembles new ‘person of interest’
OCTOBER 3, 2017


Wife of person of interest in Delphi murders says Daniel Nations watched news coverage
OCTOBER 11, 2017



2018

Base of operations for Delphi homicide investigation moves back to City Hall
JANUARY 8, 2018


Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens
FEBRUARY 13, 2018


Murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi remain unsolved 1 year later, but case far from ‘cold’
FEBRUARY 13, 2018


Trail improvements planned and funded, 1 year after Delphi double murder
FEBRUARY 14, 2018


Libby German’s mother holds ‘Light the Night for Libby’ vigil
FEBRUARY 15, 2018



2019

Answers remain elusive 2 years after murders of Abby Williams and Libby German in Delphi
FEBRUARY 13, 2019


Investigation ongoing 2 years after Abby Williams, Libby German killed in Delphi
FEBRUARY 13, 2019


Anna Williams discusses loss of daughter on Delphi 2-year anniversary
FEBRUARY 13, 2019


Delphi community trying to heal 2 years after murders of Abby Williams and Libby German
FEBRUARY 13, 2019


Vigil honors Libby German and Abby Williams 2 years after Delphi murders
FEBRUARY 14, 2019


Anna Williams’ birthday wish is to raise funds for Abby and Libby Memorial Park in Delphi
MARCH 6, 2019


Construction slow on memorial park for slain Delphi teens
MARCH 29, 2019


‘Significant news’ to be announced in Delphi murders as investigation moves in ‘new direction’
APRIL 19, 2019


Mother of murdered Delphi teen ‘cautiously hopeful’ ahead of Monday’s news conference
APRIL 21, 2019


‘We also believe this person is from Delphi’: Police release new sketch, additional information in Delphi murder investigation
APRIL 22, 2019


Facebook / APRIL 22, 2019
FOX59 News


Former FBI, IMPD investigators explain how new sketch in Delphi murders could help solve case
APRIL 22, 2019


Crime Stoppers tip expert discusses what to look for when analyzing Delphi sketch, audio
APRIL 23, 2019


Police sort through more than 1,000 tips after releasing new information in Delphi murders
APRIL 23, 2019


Newly released sketch of Delphi murder suspect was drawn in 2017, source says
APRIL 23, 2019


Delphi community could be experiencing psychological impacts: ‘Grief is multi-dimensional’
APRIL 23, 2019


Indiana State Police clarify why they released new sketch in Delphi investigation
APRIL 24, 2019


Libby German’s sister forms friendship with sister of Golden State Killer victim
APRIL 29, 2019


Police remind public not to post side-by-side suspect sketch comparisons
APRIL 30, 2019


Police have received more than 42,000 tips in investigation into murders of Delphi teens
MAY 6, 2019


Family of Delphi murder victims speak out for first time since release of new evidence
JUNE 20, 2019


Sister of Delphi murder victim takes to YouTube to dispel rumors, defend family
JULY 10, 2019


Fundraising goal met for memorial park honoring Delphi teens
JULY 16, 2019


6 months after new sketch released on Delphi murder suspect
OCTOBER 24, 2019

Thank you so much for your dedication and hard work in your posts @margarita25 Please know how much it is appreciated by us all.