Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

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heartgoesout said:
Whistler Woods - NICHES Land Trust
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Yes, Ive been looking too and that is where I ended up. It appears her son donated land and then at some point they must have named the "Mary I Gerard Nature Reserve" with some of that land or maybe other land they donated later.

"In honor of his mother, Mary I. Gerard, Charles Gerard donated 6 acres of quality bottomland woods in 2008."

"Charles Gerard, a noted local historian, avidly supported local organizations dedicated to historical preservation and natural area conservation."

Here is her obituary and it sounds like a wonderful family.

Mary Ilene Timmons Gerard (1919-2006) - Find A...

Whistler Woods - NICHES Land Trust
 
heartgoesout said:
Whistler Woods - NICHES Land Trust
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Interesting. Seems to be the same Charles Gerard, but he died of Lou Gehrig’s disease in 2005. A big local donor, it seems. His mom’s maiden name drew my attention. The same Mary? So who would be staring at her name? I understand there were no direct relatives left.

Charles Gerard (Deceased), Delphi, IN Indiana

ETA: the same Mary I (Timmons) Gerard, the same Charles Gerard. But how could he donate the land in 2008 if he died in 2005?
 
Here is about the bench. Someone asked about what happened at the trailheads. Nothing, I think. But it is probably the bench dedicated to Charles Gerard that overlooks his mom’s plate. What do you think?

Trail benches can be dedicated to loved ones | Carroll County Comet

(Charles was a major donor. He donated to Delphi opera house, too).
 
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TTF14 said:
Agree. I think when Carter has said "you want to know what we know...." they may have heard from BG in some way, and they were even "instructed" to divulge something from the crime scene in last year's PC.
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After watching the presser from last April a few times, I had an off the wall thought. Between the overall demeanor of the press conference and what sounded like anger, I initially thought that there was a sense of betrayal in the overall scheme of things. But, after listening a few times to the way he stated "you want to know what we know....", it made me wonder if perhaps LE found out that someone working the case had their office bugged. Or that someone’s case files had been stolen.
I think if LE discovered that someone tied to the case was being “investigated” by the perp, it would explain a lot about the oddities of the presser in general.
Just a thought...
 
What if... said:
After watching the presser from last April a few times, I had an off the wall thought. Between the overall demeanor of the press conference and what sounded like anger, I initially thought that there was a sense of betrayal in the overall scheme of things. But, after listening a few times to the way he stated "you want to know what we know....", it made me wonder if perhaps LE found out that someone working the case had their office bugged. Or that someone’s case files had been stolen.
I think if LE discovered that someone tied to the case was being “investigated” by the perp, it would explain a lot about the oddities of the presser in general.
Just a thought...
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I don’t know if DC was just talking in general terms that the perp must be paranoid about what they know and what evidence they have on him. I still have the impression that they could have got him early on but there was some mess up by a witness or something that prevented that (causing the two sketch situation) and DC is incensed about it. Maybe I’m totally wrong but it was a very strange press conference. I will not forget it and hope we get answers to our questions about what happened to cause the two sketch situation one day.
 
gregjrichards said:
I don’t know if DC was just talking in general terms that the perp must be paranoid about what they know and what evidence they have on him. I still have the impression that they could have got him early on but there was some mess up by a witness or something that prevented that (causing the two sketch situation) and DC is incensed about it. Maybe I’m totally wrong but it was a very strange press conference. I will not forget it and hope we get answers to our questions about what happened to cause the two sketch situation one day.
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Or maybe, some conflict between officials. They (the LE) were right, but some information they received sent them on a different way. And now they are coming back to square one. I think DC was angry, and it was personal.
 
Hatfield said:
Great Post.

I especially agree with this part:

"I think BG parked at old CPS building because it was ALL that was left of where he was used to parking."

Ive always felt he knew the area well because of how he directed the girls to go down toward the river and away from the bridge and to a spot where nobody on the bridge area could really see them. Im also pretty sure he would be heading in the direction of however he planned to escape from the area too. Its not like he would head back to the bridge area after killing the girls, so I suspect his escape route was in that same general direction.

Im not convinced yet he had a vehicle but if he did, then it makes sense what you are saying about where he parked. Ive seriously entertained that he may have had a motorcycle parked near there and made his getaway by motorcycle. Mainly because they move very quickly and usually are faster than cars in a flat out race. Plus the added benefit of going through some rough ground if he had it parked somewhat in the woods.

The area out the backside near the cemetary where the fields meet that back road that takes us away from the area had a few "trails" that a motorcycle could make easy use of.

Anyway, thanks for posting that great post and lets hope LE can finally solve this case soon. Its been way too long already.
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Whether or not the vehicle parked at the CPS lot was related to BG is pivotal, IMO.

No matter if he knew the area prior to the Hoosier Heartland Highway or not, if he knew the area at all, he'd have known about the cemetery. IMO, that's where he would have parked if he'd planned the whole thing out, including the specific location to kill them and the escape route. He could have made a big circle, walking to the north end of the bridge via the woods, crossed the bridge after them, crossed the creek to the final location, then walked back up the hill to the cemetery and been gone. It would have been less visible, less risky, quicker, and easier.

However, since there was a car in question parked at the CPS lot, I tend to believe it's related to BG, and considering what I said about the cemetery, I think parking at the CPS lot indicates the crime was not well planned out. JMO
 
TL4S said:
Whether or not the vehicle parked at the CPS lot was related to BG is pivotal, IMO.

No matter if he knew the area prior to the Hoosier Heartland Highway or not, if he knew the area at all, he'd have known about the cemetery. IMO, that's where he would have parked if he'd planned the whole thing out, including the specific location to kill them and the escape route. He could have made a big circle, walking to the north end of the bridge via the woods, crossed the bridge after them, crossed the creek to the final location, then walked back up the hill to the cemetery and been gone. It would have been less visible, less risky, quicker, and easier.

However, since there was a car in question parked at the CPS lot, I tend to believe it's related to BG, and considering what I said about the cemetery, I think parking at the CPS lot indicates the crime was not well planned out. JMO
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Could it have been a random occurrence? After all, it is a well-known, free, public parking spot. How often did people park there?
 
I think the video and audio are hurting this investigation more than helping. LE is relying too heavily on the “someone knows this person” move when they have a blurry video, old sketch new sketch this sketch that sketch and 4 words looped. Obviously someone knows this person because everybody knows somebody! The last frames of the video of him reminds me of someone who is a drug user, hardcore drug user, those weren’t his clothes bc they were too big or he can’t afford to buy new ones for his rapid weight loss, he’s not book smart but he’s a smart criminal and ballsy. And he’s probably far away by now and nobody would notice because he’s not from there. Idk. It’s 3:40 in the a.m. so I’ll probably feel different when I wake up again.
 
gregjrichards said:
I don’t know if DC was just talking in general terms that the perp must be paranoid about what they know and what evidence they have on him. I still have the impression that they could have got him early on but there was some mess up by a witness or something that prevented that (causing the two sketch situation) and DC is incensed about it. Maybe I’m totally wrong but it was a very strange press conference. I will not forget it and hope we get answers to our questions about what happened to cause the two sketch situation one day.
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I totally agree that something went awry early on. I’m not quite sure what exactly sent them down the wrong path in the investigation, but I can only imagine the level of frustration felt by LE (& the victims families), when they realized they had potentially been chasing all of the wrong leads for two years!

I wouldn’t say those two years were wasted by any means. They’ve followed and eliminated thousands of leads, I’m sure that every piece of evidence they could come up with has been analyzed, and I would think that, even if they don’t have a specific POI, their list of potential suspects is much shorter than when they started. However, at least on the surface, it appears they’ve spent two very crucial years chasing the wrong rabbit.
My own opinion here, but I think they’ve identified the person in the original sketch. I think that when they figured out who it was, OBG confessed to being there that day, but is claiming to have been there for other nefarious reasons and didn’t want it to be known. IF THAT’S THE CASE, then OBG may have provided information of what HE saw on the trails that day, and that information may have added additional weight to the witness statement provided by the witness that saw NBG doing “something suspicious”.
This would explain why the sketch of OBG is now “secondary”. Maybe LE still can’t rule him out completely in regards to participating in some manner, but they no longer need information from the public to identify him.
It’s just a guess on my part, but when I consider this possibility, listening to that presser makes a lot more sense to me.
MOO....
 
What if... said:
I totally agree that something went awry early on. I’m not quite sure what exactly sent them down the wrong path in the investigation, but I can only imagine the level of frustration felt by LE (& the victims families), when they realized they had potentially been chasing all of the wrong leads for two years!

I wouldn’t say those two years were wasted by any means. They’ve followed and eliminated thousands of leads, I’m sure that every piece of evidence they could come up with has been analyzed, and I would think that, even if they don’t have a specific POI, their list of potential suspects is much shorter than when they started. However, at least on the surface, it appears they’ve spent two very crucial years chasing the wrong rabbit.
My own opinion here, but I think they’ve identified the person in the original sketch. I think that when they figured out who it was, OBG confessed to being there that day, but is claiming to have been there for other nefarious reasons and didn’t want it to be known. IF THAT’S THE CASE, then OBG may have provided information of what HE saw on the trails that day, and that information may have added additional weight to the witness statement provided by the witness that saw NBG doing “something suspicious”.
This would explain why the sketch of OBG is now “secondary”. Maybe LE still can’t rule him out completely in regards to participating in some manner, but they no longer need information from the public to identify him.
It’s just a guess on my part, but when I consider this possibility, listening to that presser makes a lot more sense to me.
MOO....
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What you say may be true. However, I think the explanation is simpler. I think LE saw the video from Libby's phone and decided that they were looking for a middle-aged man. For that reason, they ignored the sketch of the younger person (whom we've been calling NBG). After more careful review of the video in conjunction with the FBI profile of the perp, they realized that they had screwed the pooch by ignoring the younger unknown suspect. I think Carter is angry at himself and his people for the blunder, which helped the real perp go undetected for two years.
 
Brazenkane said:
He may not of wanted his vehicle near the scene of the crime, hence parking further away
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That's fair, but I still feel that if a creek crossing was part of the plan, he'd want to park somewhere he could get out quickly and unseen. Wet, muddy pants and shoes would be both noticeable and uncomfortable.

And if he didn't want his car connected to the crime scene, parking at trail parking, visible from Hoosier Heartland hwy and 300 rd (and maybe the security camera at the storage facility) wouldn't make sense, necessarily.

Of course, killing two girls doesn't make sense, either.
 
It's hard to imagine that after this amount of time the killer would not be exposed if he were actually a Delphi resident. In the April 2019 news conference, Carter said, "We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here." To me it would seem more reasonable, after 3 years, that BG is not from Delphi but instead had familiarity with the area. Perhaps he drove through there regularly, perhaps found a nice little out of the way place to rest, eat a sandwich, have a wee, and maybe, just maybe, stalk people. Being from out of town could also explain why he hasn't been turned in - maybe those around him just aren't up to speed on the case.
 
TL4S said:
That's fair, but I still feel that if a creek crossing was part of the plan, he'd want to park somewhere he could get out quickly and unseen. Wet, muddy pants and shoes would be both noticeable and uncomfortable.

And if he didn't want his car connected to the crime scene, parking at trail parking, visible from Hoosier Heartland hwy and 300 rd (and maybe the security camera at the storage facility) wouldn't make sense, necessarily.

Of course, killing two girls doesn't make sense, either.
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I totally agree with you. Your thoughts are just another reason about six months ago I decided there was no way BG’s plan was to lead the girls across the creek. It would be crazy to plan to cross a large creek in February in Indiana for what he probably was planning to do to the girls. I think he was leading them somewhere on the side of the bridge where they were accosted...that small deer shack, an empty house, some other spot in the woods...and the girl’s tried to run and they ran across the creek. He caught them and killed them in a rage which is why it was all over so quickly.
My scenario presents problems too though.
1) Even if BG did not plan to cross the creek and parked at the CPS building, the fact is he DID cross the creek, so, like you said, he had to walk back to his car with muddy, wet clothes but no one seemed to notice that. (Though I guess it’s possible somebody did notice but that’s just something else LE is not talking about)
2) If BG did plan to take them across the creek, then I think he was probably parked at the cemetery. It’s closer, more hidden. In fact if he was parked at the cemetery maybe his original plan was to take them across the creek and up to his car but the girl’s resisted at some point and he killed them.
I think it’s possible LE doesn’t know for sure which one of these are correct. They aren’t sure still where the killer parked though they seem to be leaning toward the old CPS building.
I wish I thought LE had a clearer picture of things but frankly I think they are as confused as we are.
As always, just my thoughts.
 
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