Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[bradfordsleuth]

I don’t have social media so I don’t think I’ve seen it there, unless someone here was talking about it. But I remember reading about it somewhere. But lots of stuff that was on MSM have been edited, changed completely, or just gone. I wonder if certain things that were/are crucial to the investigation were removed from MSM for reasons to protect the investigation. I’ve seen it done in a few cases. It gets frustrating tho when looking for past stuff that’s for sure.

Jmo

Quoted bbm
I think your bang-on with this !

Probably a good topic to avoid discussing here if this could be the case.

 

[TL4S]

This doesn't answer your question, but it includes info that I don't recall that D.C. has ever come outright and said before.

I thought I would put it here as I know that not everybody is listening to these podcasts.

In the link below from the podcast, SCENE OF THE CRIME – A NEW DIRECTION at around the 41 minute mark, this direct quote by Doug Carter from the April 22nd presser is mentioned. "The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls."

At the 42 minute mark, Kelsi discusses the decision to switch to the new sketch with Doug Carter.

Delphi: A New Direction from Scene of the Crime: Delphi

DC: Remember a sketch is just a visual, it’s not a photograph. It’s a visual of what somebody might have seen. So that’s all I’ll say about the sketch.

KG: In 2019 a new composite sketch of the suspect was created that looks a lot different to many people than the original sketch. How and why was the new sketch created and why might it appear much different?

DC: Yeah, well…I can’t talk about that in detail, but I will simply say that the investigation has evolved….and there are things we know that we can’t explain. And I know there was a lot of anxiety about that, and even there was even some confusion and some blame and some criticism of us. Uh…that criticism needs to come to me and not to anybody else because I absolutely supported that change.

All JMO - But I now have two scenarios in mind:

1-two different people were there that day that were dressed very similarly and both were seen by different witnesses. LE has decided that one person/sketch has now become a 'secondary' because they know that the other person is the one who committed the actual crime. The person in the 'secondary' sketch may even be the witness mentioned in the April 22nd press release; We have a witness. You made mistakes."
ISP release new information on Delphi murder suspect

2-the same person was seen by multiple people but he disguised himself by hiding his face (with a scarf or even a mask?) and is, in fact, both sketches. He was seen pre-disguise and post-disguise. Thus, DC saying that he "May end up looking like both sketches."

What if the witness for the NBG sketch was a child, or a junkie, or an otherwise less credible source? Could it be enough for LE to set that sketch on the back burner while putting together a composite from multiple, more "reliable" witnesses?

 

[margarita25]

Has anyone considered the date this crime was committed? What about the history of the surrounding land and ownership? Think outside the box. Could this have been a set up? Why were bodies found in the same area previously searched the night before? Why wait until 10am to resume search? If properties have been searched and nothing has been found (at least to our knowledge) then where were the girls all night? Where were they taken to? Why were they still warm? Anyone find it odd the cellphone was left? Doesn't it seem suspicious that the killer can cover their tracks well enough to not get caught but then leaves a cell phone in plain site? Can you think of any other mysterious cases where cell phones were conveniently left at the scene of the crime? There is one element to this case that I recently discovered and it appears no one has even considered it. Once you do, it will take you down a rabbit hole you can't find your way out of.

Welcome. We don’t know that the cell was left in plain sight.

 

[nunyabiz750]

Quoted bbm

If there is something you have found that hasn't been discussed in the last 120 threads, it would likely be interesting for all of us to learn about without us having to dig our 10,000th rabbit hole.
JMO

Care to expand on this without breaking any rules?

Well, I started down this rabbit hole once I learned that Indiana Beach was closing and went from there. It's so convoluted that I can't even tell you how I ended up here. All I know is that it eventually led me to consider the date this crime was committed and then started to see if there was a relationship to other cases locally and across the US. I noticed a pattern and my head has been spinning ever since.

 

[nunyabiz750]

Welcome. We don’t know that the cell was left in plain site. Moo.

Good point.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

What if the witness for the NBG sketch was a child, or a junkie, or an otherwise less credible source? Could it be enough for LE to set that sketch on the back burner while putting together a composite from multiple, more "reliable" witnesses?

Very true and a very likely possibility.

I have often wondered about the call-out by LE looking for a hitch hiker early on...and if it could have been a minor they were looking for....as well as that person being the source for sketch #2.

I tend to wonder about things too much.

JMO

 

[Eclipsed]

Has anyone considered the date this crime was committed? What about the history of the surrounding land and ownership? Think outside the box. Could this have been a set up? Why were bodies found in the same area previously searched the night before? Why wait until 10am to resume search? If properties have been searched and nothing has been found (at least to our knowledge) then where were the girls all night? Where were they taken to? Why were they still warm? Anyone find it odd the cellphone was left? Doesn't it seem suspicious that the killer can cover their tracks well enough to not get caught but then leaves a cell phone in plain site? Can you think of any other mysterious cases where cell phones were conveniently left at the scene of the crime? There is one element to this case that I recently discovered and it appears no one has even considered it. Once you do, it will take you down a rabbit hole you can't find your way out of.

Facts did NOT show bodies were warm on feb 14th.

Fact...autopsy showed they died on 13th

Trying to get us shut down?

 

[Fizzle]

Welcome nunyabiz750 -- we always like to hear new ideas.

I saw above that someone addressed your phone question. In addition to it potentially being dropped or lost somewhere along the way, it is also possible that he made a conscious decision to leave the phone. It appears that he did not have his own phone and he may know a lot about technology and how phones can be tracked.

Re the bodies being still warm when discovered, that is a rumor and the official statement is that both girls passed away on 2/13.

You can also read up on the search quite a bit on here and MSM... why it was called off that night, why it started when it did on the 14th, etc.

 

[Cj707]

Has anyone considered the date this crime was committed? What about the history of the surrounding land and ownership? Think outside the box. Could this have been a set up? Why were bodies found in the same area previously searched the night before? Why wait until 10am to resume search? If properties have been searched and nothing has been found (at least to our knowledge) then where were the girls all night? Where were they taken to? Why were they still warm? Anyone find it odd the cellphone was left? Doesn't it seem suspicious that the killer can cover their tracks well enough to not get caught but then leaves a cell phone in plain site? Can you think of any other mysterious cases where cell phones were conveniently left at the scene of the crime? There is one element to this case that I recently discovered and it appears no one has even considered it. Once you do, it will take you down a rabbit hole you can't find your way out of.

Where the girls bodies still warm when they were found? I heard about this horrible crime when it happened but just started following this thread a few days ago. I have a lot of catch up to do!

Thanks!

 

[Fizzle]

Well, I started down this rabbit hole once I learned that Indiana Beach was closing and went from there. It's so convoluted that I can't even tell you how I ended up here. All I know is that it eventually led me to consider the date this crime was committed and then started to see if there was a relationship to other cases locally and across the US. I noticed a pattern and my head has been spinning ever since.

I had to google Indiana Beach since I'm not local... so you believe the shut down of an amusement park could be somehow related?

 

[nunyabiz750]

Well, I started down this rabbit hole once I learned that Indiana Beach was closing and went from there. It's so convoluted that I can't even tell you how I ended up here. All I know is that it eventually led me to consider the date this crime was committed and then started to see if there was a relationship to other cases locally and across the US. I noticed a pattern and my head has been spinning ever since.

I had to google Indiana Beach since I'm not local... so you believe the shut down of an amusement park could be somehow related?

wledge.

Facts did NOT show bodies were warm on feb 14th.

Fact...autopsy showed they died on 13th

Trying to get us shut down?

Nope. Just asking questions. Just a fellow armchair sleuth trying to put the pieces together like everyone else. I personally believe, in my amateur opinion, there is more to the case than meets the eye.

 

[Fizzle]

Has anyone here heard the Israel Keyes tapes or researched him much? Obviously he did not kill the girls, but the tape where he describes committing a double murder is incredibly disturbing and gives a glimpse of the type of person BG could be. The calm and matter-of-fact way that he describes his actions, laughs, etc. made my skin crawl.

I believe BG is this type of murderer -- a sociopath with no feelings of guilt or remorse. It explains his calm voice when he says "down the hill." Whether he is a serial killer or rapist, who knows, but he certainly could be. Did/does this sociopath happen to live nearby? Maybe. But he also could have just been hunting the way Israel did -- random killings all over the country were his MO because he was less likely to get caught. He also liked to target parks and hiking trails. And admits to taking steps to try to leave no DNA (such as wearing gloves, masks, etc., and pouring drano on his victims).

We don't know the specifics of the crime scene, but my guess is that LE instantly thought it could be a serial killer. Or maybe just someone who studies serial killers such as Keyes. Either way, I don't think we should spend much time hoping for a confession or trying to analyze this guy or his motivations. I think it was probably just pure thrill of the kill. And even more thrill b/c it was 2.

One of Keyes' victims was a young woman who had some things going on in her life... restraining order, poor lifestyle choices, sex offenders who lived in the small town, etc. Because of this, there were suspects right away when she disappeared. But it turned out to be totally random -- a guy she didn't know abducted her from her job selling coffee. I feel like this could be true with the Delphi case as well... so many suspicious characters, but still could have just been a random psycho.

 

[Kittybunny]

Regarding the sketches... I have a funny feeling that the BG#1 sketch was basically an artist's rendering of the BG photos/video, while the BG#2 sketch came from an actual eyewitness, and was initially rejected by LE because it bears little resemblance to the BG photos/video.

Obviously MOO

This is really the only explanation regarding the two sketches that makes any sense to me whatsoever. The question is which is the one closest to the real appearance of BG?

 

[layer]

Fact...autopsy showed they died on 13th

OK, how did I miss that? When were autopsy findings released?

 

[What if...]

This doesn't answer your question, but it includes info that I don't recall that D.C. has ever come outright and said before.

I thought I would put it here as I know that not everybody is listening to these podcasts.

In the link below from the podcast, SCENE OF THE CRIME – A NEW DIRECTION at around the 41 minute mark, this direct quote by Doug Carter from the April 22nd presser is mentioned. "The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls."

At the 42 minute mark, Kelsi discusses the decision to switch to the new sketch with Doug Carter.

Delphi: A New Direction from Scene of the Crime: Delphi

DC: Remember a sketch is just a visual, it’s not a photograph. It’s a visual of what somebody might have seen. So that’s all I’ll say about the sketch.

KG: In 2019 a new composite sketch of the suspect was created that looks a lot different to many people than the original sketch. How and why was the new sketch created and why might it appear much different?

DC: Yeah, well…I can’t talk about that in detail, but I will simply say that the investigation has evolved….and there are things we know that we can’t explain. And I know there was a lot of anxiety about that, and even there was even some confusion and some blame and some criticism of us. Uh…that criticism needs to come to me and not to anybody else because I absolutely supported that change.

All JMO - But I now have two scenarios in mind:

1-two different people were there that day that were dressed very similarly and both were seen by different witnesses. LE has decided that one person/sketch has now become a 'secondary' because they know that the other person is the one who committed the actual crime. The person in the 'secondary' sketch may even be the witness mentioned in the April 22nd press release; We have a witness. You made mistakes."
ISP release new information on Delphi murder suspect

2-the same person was seen by multiple people but he disguised himself by hiding his face (with a scarf or even a mask?) and is, in fact, both sketches. He was seen pre-disguise and post-disguise. Thus, DC saying that he "May end up looking like both sketches."

I’m leaning towards your first scenario, but I can’t rule out the possibility of scenario #2.
The number of “oddities” in this case are insane!

 

[Eclipsed]

OK, how did I miss that? When were autopsy findings released?

Thought it was back when two different headstone dates were discussed; you could choose date of death or date when found.

 

[Eclipsed]

This doesn't answer your question, but it includes info that I don't recall that D.C. has ever come outright and said before.

I thought I would put it here as I know that not everybody is listening to these podcasts.

In the link below from the podcast, SCENE OF THE CRIME – A NEW DIRECTION at around the 41 minute mark, this direct quote by Doug Carter from the April 22nd presser is mentioned. "The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls."

At the 42 minute mark, Kelsi discusses the decision to switch to the new sketch with Doug Carter.

Delphi: A New Direction from Scene of the Crime: Delphi

DC: Remember a sketch is just a visual, it’s not a photograph. It’s a visual of what somebody might have seen. So that’s all I’ll say about the sketch.

KG: In 2019 a new composite sketch of the suspect was created that looks a lot different to many people than the original sketch. How and why was the new sketch created and why might it appear much different?

DC: Yeah, well…I can’t talk about that in detail, but I will simply say that the investigation has evolved….and there are things we know that we can’t explain. And I know there was a lot of anxiety about that, and even there was even some confusion and some blame and some criticism of us. Uh…that criticism needs to come to me and not to anybody else because I absolutely supported that change.

All JMO - But I now have two scenarios in mind:

1-two different people were there that day that were dressed very similarly and both were seen by different witnesses. LE has decided that one person/sketch has now become a 'secondary' because they know that the other person is the one who committed the actual crime. The person in the 'secondary' sketch may even be the witness mentioned in the April 22nd press release; We have a witness. You made mistakes."
ISP release new information on Delphi murder suspect

2-the same person was seen by multiple people but he disguised himself by hiding his face (with a scarf or even a mask?) and is, in fact, both sketches. He was seen pre-disguise and post-disguise. Thus, DC saying that he "May end up looking like both sketches."

I watched both podcasts but I thought sketch of NBG was from 2017 right after the murders & not shown to us?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I watched both podcasts but I thought sketch of NBG was from 2017 right after the murders & not shown to us?

Correct.

NBG sketch was done Feb 17, 2017 and released April 22, 2019.

Police: Sketch of suspect in 2 girls’ killings more accurate

ETA that in April 2019, LE referred to OBG (sketch #1) as 'secondary' which is why I used that lingo in my earlier post.

It was the first sketch released back in July 2017, but the second sketch drawn.

 

[Mountain Misst]

Has the undercurrent about a POI from Illinois made it to msm yet?

If not, can someone point me to the unsolved case from 2012 in Waterloo, Iowa of something similar to our Abby and Libby..

 

[layer]

Thought it was back when two different headstone dates were discussed; you could choose date of death or date when found.

To the best of my recollection neither was the definitive date of death; it was never released to the public. Someone please correct me if I am wrong?