Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[layer]

Has the undercurrent about a POI from Illinois made it to msm yet? If not, can someone point me to the unsolved case from 2012 in Waterloo, Iowa of something similar to our Abby and Libby..

I don't know anything about a POI from Illinois, but the 2012 Waterloo Iowa case was the unsolved murder and abduction of cousins Lyric & Lizzy, from Evansdale Iowa.
Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins

 

[Jax49]

Per the petition to seal the autopsy results the girls both died on the 13th.

"The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. 2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. 3) No charges have been filed with connection to the killings."

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

 

[Jax49]

To the best of my recollection neither was the definitive date of death; it was never released to the public. Someone please correct me if I am wrong?

The petition to seal the autopsy shows both girls expired on the 13th.

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

Case Number 08C01-1703-MC-000094

 

[Barbieshell]

I think they should have DNA tested every adult male in the Delphi area (aged 18+ including LE) IMHO. Was it ever addressed that a cop and a relative look just like the picture ? (no offence or aspersions being cast, just an observation) I haven't had the time to look through 3 years worth of threads and like others I'm relatively new to this case.

 

[jhny]

I don't think that this info ever made it to msm.

I believe that it was put out on social media and then brought here as part of the discussion when the person registered here as a poster. Posts were deleted from what I recall as it was considered unverified info.

Hard to recall from three years ago what made it to msm. Your right! A lot of the older stuff in msm has either disappeared all together, or been heavily edited.

JMO

Yes & the guy was acting in a way that she felt she needed to contact LE. imo she is the source of the younger sketch.

 

[layer]

The petition to seal the autopsy shows both girls expired on the 13th.

Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

Case Number 08C01-1703-MC-000094

Thanks!
Interesting that such a significant detail of the autopsy was made public in the very course of sealing the autopsy. I wonder if revealing the dates of death was required in order to file the petition or if it was just done inadvertently.

 

[Jax49]

Thanks!
Interesting that such a significant detail of the autopsy was made public in the very course of sealing the autopsy. I wonder if revealing the dates of death was required in order to file the petition or if it was just done inadvertently.

There's a second indication that LE believes the girls died quickly (within minutes). From the Indiana State Police. bbm

"This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered."

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

 

[Cryptic]

Not to mention he was walking on those railroad ties. I doubt if I would recognize someone's gait on that bridge. As far as how swung his arms or moved his upper body is also affected by that plus his hands appear to be his pockets.

I agree, natural gaity would be hard to determine for somebody walking on railroad ties. But.... I think the totality of the situation might hint at his natural gait:

BG is walking railroad ties, has his hands in his pockets and appears to be rapidly overtaking the victims. This is occurring on a very high trestle. The totality could suggest that BG is naturally athletic as his apparent nonchalance seems more than just being familiar with the bridge.

As for an athletic gait, I can identify it better than I can describe it. Even still, natural athletes have a physically confident walk (does not mean a strut), lightness of step, and a good sense of balance that projects their superior eye / hand / foot coordination.

If BG is naturally athletic, I could him having been an active participant in youth / school sports. A coach as many coaches are former players, an adult sports league participant, military officer or NCO- especially combat arms, perhaps even a college level athlete for a smaller school or junior college (he does not seem to have Division I, or Division II body size for many sports).

 

[Cj707]

I think they should have DNA tested every adult male in the Delphi area (aged 18+ including LE) IMHO. Was it ever addressed that a cop and a relative look just like the picture ? (no offence or aspersions being cast, just an observation) I haven't had the time to look through 3 years worth of threads and like others I'm relatively new to this case.

I was wondering about the possibility that the killer was law enforcement also. I have nothing to base it on as I am not well versed on the ins and outs of this case at all. More like a gut feeling, which could totally be off. Without violating any rules here, do you believe that there is family or LE that looks similar to the sketch? At this point idk if this is a popular theory or not. MOO

 

[TristanP]

I think they should have DNA tested every adult male in the Delphi area (aged 18+ including LE) IMHO. Was it ever addressed that a cop and a relative look just like the picture ? (no offence or aspersions being cast, just an observation) I haven't had the time to look through 3 years worth of threads and like others I'm relatively new to this case.

There have been literally hundreds of comparisons of “men who look like the sketch”, both old and new sketches. Cops, school teachers, coaches, clergy, relatives...on and on. As someone new to the case, avoid all those...they’ll just add confusion and honestly they’ve caused problems in people’s lives due to the insanity on social media.

The DNA thing - they couldn’t have forced men to provide samples, and there would have been considerable expense involved. And, most importantly, it’s not known if there is any useful DNA from the scene at all. Sure, they gathered lots of items with DNA on them, but nothing tested so far appears to have marched with any known criminals, and based on the fact that they haven’t come up with any Parabon photos or genetic genealogy possibilities, a likely deduction is that they don’t have any or don’t have much DNA, and what they do have they might not even be from the murderer.

My personal guess is that they may have enough DNA to match someone to the scene if a suspect is ever identified, but the sample they have is small enough they can’t utilize some of the more high tech DNA options at this point.

editing to add that also regarding the sketch: once they released the “second” sketch, and have said disregard the first one, but then said the person is probably a mix of both sketches...I really think the sketches are almost useless at this point!

 

[Barbieshell]

I was wondering about the possibility that the killer was law enforcement also. I have nothing to base it on as I am not well versed on the ins and outs of this case at all. More like a gut feeling, which could totally be off. Without violating any rules here, do you believe that there is family or LE that looks similar to the sketch? At this point idk if this is a popular theory or not. MOO

I'd watched a documentary about this case this morning and just noticed a couple of folks looked familiar (iykwim). It probably won't be family, as there would be some mention of the person in the audio but not sure about the other guy (LE dude).
I'm thinking the chances are it was probably a visitor to the area (but I'd noticed on another piece I watched that a dude said a stranger wouldn't know about the bridge or be able to find it).

 

[Hubberito]

I t

Yes, I'm inline with your thoughts. The car presents a problem because we don't know if it was even connected to BG. My mind consistently runs two scenarios: car is related, or car is not.

If BG parked at the CPS lot with no real plan in place, and the murders, creek crossing, etc. occurred impulsively, than maybe he found himself standing there thinking, "Crap, now what?"

Riley has said BG had to know where to cross the creek, but that doesn't definitively mean he purposefully led the girls across. Maybe he crossed elsewhere on his way out. skibaboo's map shows police road blocks from the days following the murder. W 300 N rd was blocked just north of the CPS lot, and the N 625 W (the road that runs south from the bridge) was blocked at the W 200 N intersection. That was likely due to the ongoing investigation, but maybe there's a reason they wanted to keep people out of that south end. Maybe they thought BG recrossed the creek and took the woods southeasterly, circling back north near the hwy to get back to his car? He'd be out of sight nearly the entire way. I don't know how likely that is, but I'm throwing it out there. They did ask about any hitchhikers early on.

Personally, I believe the car is connected to BG. DC might sound confused, but I don't think he is. I think BG parked at CPS lot and followed the girls on the trail starting at that 501 trail sign DC talks about, and LE knows it. I'm hopeful LE has a full picture.

I think BG was on a motorcycle. ???

 

[Cj707]

Do any here think along the lines that it may be someone in law enforcement that committed this crime? Either from Delphi or elsewhere?

 

[Blueberry2720]

Interesting article - producing dna sequence from protein when little or no dna is present.

New forensics method works 'backward' to DNA - Futurity

 

[Barbieshell]

Do any here think along the lines that it may be someone in law enforcement that committed this crime? Either from Delphi or elsewhere?

Not sure, I've seen a few pics of folks of late that have all resembled BG, some local, some not. It's a quandary, is there the obligatory "elephant in the room" or a random evil stranger from another place.
Someone that kills 2 girls at once is a ballsy *advertiser censored* so I'd think this wouldn't be their first murder venture tbf. Could be wrong, I just hope this is solved-predominantly to remove a very evil and dangerous person off the street, but also to give closure to the families and bring justice for the girls.
This is just my opinion, my words do not have any gravitas or bearing on proceedings.

 

[Falcon500]

Do any here think along the lines that it may be someone in law enforcement that committed this crime? Either from Delphi or elsewhere?

Why do you think it was someone in law enforcement? How about a firefighter? A priest? A clerk at the 7-11? Why single out a police officer?

 

[Barbieshell]

DBM system malfunction resulting in a double post.

 

[Barbieshell]

I t

I think BG was on a motorcycle. ???

They would have found tracks surely if that was the case? Car or truck / van thing parked up somewhere for me tbh.
Was surprised to see all the surrounding roads near where the girls were found, for some reason I'd thought it was rural and isolated.

 

[Cj707]

Dbm

 

[Cj707]

Why do you think it was someone in law enforcement? How about a firefighter? A priest? A clerk at the 7-11? Why single out a police officer?

I really have no idea. It's just where my mind went as a new comer to the case and wondered if anyone else thought along the same lines. It very well could have been any of those occupations you mentioned though.