Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[StarryStarryNight]

Thanks much. Found it—discussed in threads 87 and 88. Says Leazenby says he knows that voice on “The Delphi Murders: An HLN Investigation,” but I can’t find that online. When I search it, I just come up with the podcast. I’ll keep trying to find it though. Lots of catching up to do.

I wouldn’t discount an outlier for any one the reasons you name, although I can see how altogether they make you lean against. Plus, no shortage of other likely and non-outlier perps.

I would still like to know how they determined height range, whether video, witnesses, footprints, etc., and if they really rule out anyone above 5’10.

A funny...or is it?....story about the audio clip.
I was listening last week to the podcast “Scene of the Crime” while driving. They had a short interview with ISP’s Carter then began talking about the audio clip. Then they played the audio clip and I almost ran off the road. I have heard that audio hundreds of times but this time, to me, it sounded just like Carter! Well, I thought, that explains why Leazenby says he knows that voice. I even listened later and it still sounds like Carter to me. Should I turn him in? To himself? HaHa!
I might need a break!

 

[Charlot123]

Unfortunately, I think you two have both succumbed to wishful thinking. It is fairly evident that LE does not know who BG is.

@Ozoner, and it can happen in any investigation. But what is concerning (despite the obvious fact that a murderer is walking somewhere) is that all Delphi males are under the same suspicion, and people need to live and plan for the future.
.

 

[Charlot123]

Its understandable why we all question if there is DNA, with DNA phonotyping and the technology to produce a parabon snapshot.....why wouldn't they release a composite sketch if they could?

JMO They must have the killers DNA in some form. As @layer posted and quoted bbm, it is likely touch DNA.

@Charlot123 is our resident expert here on DNA and may be a good person to explain if touch DNA can be used to create a parabon snapshot (and correct me on my terminology as well!)

According to this article, 6 weeks in they had collected DNA from hundreds of people they had interviewed.

Six weeks later, information continues coming in to Delphi murder investigators

"Over six weeks, hundreds of investigators have checked more than 14,000 tips, interviewed more than 300 potential suspects and took DNA samples from almost all of them. "

IMO it would be a completely unnecessary waste of their time, resources and money for them to do that if they didn't have DNA they were sure belonged to the killer.

Evidence of DNA does not equal evidence of who the perp is, unless the DNA was found in a place where it could only be explained by a sexual assault or a defensive wound.

Maybe the DNA is there...just not in the 'right place' for the 'smoking gun'.

All JMO

Thank you, I am not an expert at all, but as you all, I am fascinated by the science.

It seems that the problem with touch DNA might be the same as with low copy number DNA - as the amount of material is so small, there is a high risk of contamination. And it could be contaminated by other DNA present at the object, as well as by the investigator’s DNA present during handling in the laboratory.

So Parabon snapshot might be a very expensive method in the case of touch DNA, and maybe a waste of money, as it will render several snapshots, and most of them won’t be BG. However, the LE are probably using the DNA to rule the suspects out,

 

[Charlot123]

A funny...or is it?....story about the audio clip.
I was listening last week to the podcast “Scene of the Crime” while driving. They had a short interview with ISP’s Carter then began talking about the audio clip. Then they played the audio clip and I almost ran off the road. I have heard that audio hundreds of times but this time, to me, it sounded just like Carter! Well, I thought, that explains why Leazenby says he knows that voice. I even listened later and it still sounds like Carter to me. Should I turn him in? To himself? HaHa!
I might need a break!

I think someone already did it, lol!
The voice resembles that of Carter but more so, the new cop warning that this case won’t be solved by armchair detectives. About the second guy I can’t say much, I don’t know him. As to Carter, logically speaking, it would be difficult for him to commit a murder in broad daylight. His position is high enough for Indiana, I assume, so he is probably accompanied by someone most of the time. So a mid-day walking on Monon High Bridge, in solitude, wearing a blue jacket and a deer kit, would have been next to impossible for him.

 

[Charlot123]

As far as determining height it is my understanding they took the measurements of the railroad ties and mathematically estimated the height along with witness statements.

I also think they could have used the relatives sizes of Abby and the BG and the distance between them could be figured out by the number of planks, too. There is a photo with BG and her sleeve, I wonder if there is another one, allowing to see her and BG, or at least her body up to the shoulder, and BG. That should have been handy.

 

[Mike Britton]

I think we will never again see a further release of info, do you know why? I’m pretty certain LE knows who it is.... and probably has for over a year.

I believe this, too. Lazenby said he's heard the voice before; why would he say that unless they had a prime suspect? That wasn't just a passing statement.

It sounds like wishful thinking, but there have been a few slips that gave it away. One officer said that "when the public learns the identity, it's going to shock this community." To me, this suggested they knew the identity and it was someone who was very young at the time of the murders.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think someone already did it, lol!
The voice resembles that of Carter but more so, the new cop warning that this case won’t be solved by armchair detectives. About the second guy I can’t say much, I don’t know him. As to Carter, logically speaking, it would be difficult for him to commit a murder in broad daylight. His position is high enough for Indiana, I assume, so he is probably accompanied by someone most of the time. So a mid-day walking on Monon High Bridge, in solitude, wearing a blue jacket and a deer kit, would have been next to impossible for him.

The voice might sound like him because people from the same area tend to sound similar.

I met a person awhile ago who asked me if I was from (insert town name), and I was flabbergasted. It was a town near where I grew up, half a continent away from where I live now. He said he placed my accent because I sound like someone who was in the news - and who happened to grow up about 5 miles from where I grew up. The person in the news and I don't know each other, but her family background is very similar to mine, and there are traces in both of our speech patterns, accents, and even mannerisms and attitude, that place us in a very specific location. We do sound and act alike!

We can't sleuth Carter on WS as he's not a POI.....I'm just suggesting why the audio might sound like him. Someone with good ear for regional accents in that area probably can pinpoint a hometown for BG, especially if there is more audio than what we've heard.

jmo

 

[FinePrint]

Doxpop
Welcome to Doxpop

Yes. That is it! I knew you would know..Thanks Tippy

 

[tresir2012]

Question: wasnt there two girls (partners)who went camping & also were murdered with no resolved case? This seems similar to me.

Was it part of the Colonial parkway murders? I do seem to remember that. I'll see if there is a websleuths link.

Here's a wiki link.

Colonial Parkway murders - Wikipedia

And a WS link.

VA - VA - The Colonial Parkway Murders, 1986-89

 

[tresir2012]

What do you mean photos of the victims?

jmo

I took it to mean cell phones of the victims.

 

[JnRyan]

Was it part of the Colonial parkway murders? I do seem to remember that. I'll see if there is a websleuths link.

Lollie Winans and Julie Williams. VA - VA - Lollie Winans, 26, & Julie Williams, 24, found murdered, Shenandoah National Park, 1 June 1996

Lollie and Julie were never tied to the Colonial Parkway Murders by LE. However, many others, including some on here discussing the Colonial Parkway Murders, suspect a connection. The person that LE arrested and failed to convict would have been 18 when the first Parkway victims (Thomas/Dowski) were murdered. I believe LE had DNA from Lollie and Julie's murders and it ruled out that suspect. We talk about whether or not LE has DNA here. In the case of the first two victims, Cathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski, it is known that one of the victims fought back and had hair in their hand. That murder was over 30 years ago and Cathy's brother, Bill, still has not been able to determine if the FBI got DNA from those hairs.

 

[JnRyan]

Unfortunately, I think you two have both succumbed to wishful thinking. It is fairly evident that LE does not know who BG is.

I tend to believe LE doesn't know either. However, since LE doesn't usually reveal all they know there is no way for us to know for certain. Look the facts in the disappearance of Teresa Butler from Risco MO. It was over a decade before LE made a recent arrest and it was revealed that LE knew within 48 hours who their suspect was. They just didn't have enough evidence. And for over a dozen years we didn't know this.

 

[tresir2012]

The voice has a shake to it, like some I’ve heard before. I know it could be sound quality and phone pick up, but it sounds to me like the voice itself. Calm (my dad’s voice used to only shake when he was angry) so I feel like it’s a voice that normally has a less than smooth vibration. When does Lazenby say he’s heard it before?

I’ve tried to be a good case newby and read old threads but there are a few topics I can’t find. I’m sure they’ve been discussed like crazy but will ask anyway—Thanks!

Does anyone hear any type of accent, local or otherwise? (I don’t but not good at hearing nuances other than where my family members are from).

There must be lots of footwear evidence on the land. Any info on that, or discussion of shoes from video? I can’t make out shoes at all.

How do they get the height estimate? From video, from footprints, or both? Or from sketch witnesses?

Hat...sorry, I know you would have discussed to death. Wish I’d been here. As I mentioned, I was staying away. I get too absorbed. Making sure this time I’m balancing with other interests. But really, that hat drives me nuts.What is it?

Most of us had numerous hat/hair/hoodie convos and never any consensus. What do you think? Welcome to WS.
I personally think it was a hat and it was left at scene so they got a hair from the hat and that is how they know he has reddish brown hair. But if no follicle on the hair then no full DNA but maybe mitochondrial only.
I also think he is in jail for another crime ATM. Several of my POIs are in jail in different states or counties.
JMO.

 

[JDough]

Some very interesting comments on the HLN FB page regarding "Down the Hill" podcasts.

Mike Galanos

(Reminder to self: these comments may not be discussed here, due to TOS).

 

[Rossymom]

May I share a story of a criminal arrested very recently in Ohio? I am not sure how to contact Tricia for review.
His arrests are causing me to go “hmmmmmm”.

 

[Inthedetails]

May I share a story of a criminal arrested very recently in Ohio? I am not sure how to contact Tricia for review.

Click the "Report" link at the bottom of your post. A box will pop up and you can type your question.

Generally it's not allowed to discuss random people that seem like likely suspects, so it's worth asking before posting.

jmo

 

[Charlot123]

There is a poster on twitter called "Dexter the Bounty Hunter" that keeps posting who he thinks did it I guess - has anyone else seen this?

He is not posting - he is just making the same statement, times and again.. No motive, no reason, no witnesses. I don’t know the people he accuses but I refuse to trust such “detective work”.

The voice might sound like him because people from the same area tend to sound similar.

I met a person awhile ago who asked me if I was from (insert town name), and I was flabbergasted. It was a town near where I grew up, half a continent away from where I live now. He said he placed my accent because I sound like someone who was in the news - and who happened to grow up about 5 miles from where I grew up. The person in the news and I don't know each other, but her family background is very similar to mine, and there are traces in both of our speech patterns, accents, and even mannerisms and attitude, that place us in a very specific location. We do sound and act alike!

We can't sleuth Carter on WS as he's not a POI.....I'm just suggesting why the audio might sound like him. Someone with good ear for regional accents in that area probably can pinpoint a hometown for BG, especially if there is more audio than what we've heard.

jmo

I am the last one to sleuth Carter, where did you even see it in my post?

When I saw the post of the “Carter is the BG” type elsewhere, I called it what it was - paranoia. But you have made a reasonable observation - that the voice is similar.

Now, I was trying to use logic to explain why it could not even be Carter, voice or no voice, for everyone who might suspect it is him (because the case is not solved, and some believe he is not interested in it being solved, so these rumors inevitably arise, of the “JFK did it” type).

Logically speaking, for a man of a high official level, it is hard to kill in broad daylight. He is always seen, or accompanied, by someone.
(This being said, any minor local policeman could be a suspect. But this is another story).

And I believe Carter very much wants to solve this case. It is simply - maybe it is unsolvable, maybe too much evidence was lost during the first days, or maybe, the whole case is above their heads.

Or maybe the person playing against them is darn smart. But not infallible.

 

[Rossymom]

Generally it's not allowed to discuss random people that seem like likely suspects, so it's worth asking before posting.

jmo

I know. They are very specific on their rules. I understand, but I sure would like help gathering more info on this person. Thank you. I will report myself.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am the last one to sleuth Carter, where did you even see it in my post?

Snipped.

It's a general reminder that we can't sleuth people unless named POI. It wasn't pointed at you directly, but to all of us. I myself was tempted to look into something regarding that topic, when I remembered it was against WS rules.

I'll remind myself to scroll and roll on this thread as well.

jmopinion

 

[efhds]

Thanks much. Found it—discussed in threads 87 and 88. Says Leazenby says he knows that voice on “The Delphi Murders: An HLN Investigation,” but I can’t find that online. When I search it, I just come up with the podcast. I’ll keep trying to find it though. Lots of catching up to do.

I wouldn’t discount an outlier for any one the reasons you name, although I can see how altogether they make you lean against. Plus, no shortage of other likely and non-outlier perps.

I would still like to know how they determined height range, whether video, witnesses, footprints, etc., and if they really rule out anyone above 5’10.

“ I know that voice “