Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[Strangeworld]

I agree so much with your thoughts! This is a jacket that "yes" may not be distinctive but IS a jacket that someone would recognize someone they know wearing if you combine it with the video, the gait, the words! There are people out there that know and probably suspect this person! They just need to provide the lead to bring that justice to these families! IMO

I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't really remember what I personally wear day to day, let alone remembering what others wear. It's a pretty standard looking jacket to me. And chances are he never wore it again (at least in public) so it wouldn't be a trigger for others. I really think most people are nowhere near as attentive as some give them credit for. Life is busy, work is busy, unless he regularly wore a clown suit, I don't think his clothing would prompt any sort of recognition in others who know him.

 

[TristanP]

I agree so much with your thoughts! This is a jacket that "yes" may not be distinctive but IS a jacket that someone would recognize someone they know wearing if you combine it with the video, the gait, the words! There are people out there that know and probably suspect this person! They just need to provide the lead to bring that justice to these families! IMO

It’s always interesting to me how people see things differently. To me, literally nothing about this guy is unique. He was wearing average everyday clothes that you see on any midwestern guy in those temperatures, his voice just sounds like any guy’s voice, you can’t tell anything about the gait of a person walking on a rickety old bridge with large spaces between railroad ties. He doesn’t sound authoritative, he said the word guys which is said all over the country by tons of people, when referencing both boys and girls and men and women, and of course they’d do what he said when he said “down the hill” because by that point he had threatened them in some way and they knew they had to cooperate or be harmed.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that my opinion is obviously quite different than that of others. We all see and hear things differently based on our own life experiences, and when there’s almost nothing to use for clues here, we just have to speculate endlessly.

I’m just glad that the “puppy under the jacket” theory seems to have mostly gone away lol.

 

[Charlot123]

You know how I interpret this? One sketch was given by a witness, and that witness has been deemed non-credible.

Bingo!

 

[Charlot123]

It’s always interesting to me how people see things differently. To me, literally nothing about this guy is unique. He was wearing average everyday clothes that you see on any midwestern guy in those temperatures, his voice just sounds like any guy’s voice, you can’t tell anything about the gait of a person walking on a rickety old bridge with large spaces between railroad ties. He doesn’t sound authoritative, he said the word guys which is said all over the country by tons of people, when referencing both boys and girls and men and women, and of course they’d do what he said when he said “down the hill” because by that point he had threatened them in some way and they knew they had to cooperate or be harmed.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that my opinion is obviously quite different than that of others. We all see and hear things differently based on our own life experiences, and when there’s almost nothing to use for clues here, we just have to speculate endlessly.

I’m just glad that the “puppy under the jacket” theory seems to have mostly gone away lol.

I am starting to think the opposite. It is very easy to turn from a thin man walking a puppy into an overweight guy with a belly if you put a puppy inside your jacket, and the puppy is quiet.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Ok I just watched the In Pursit episode and I can't help but be again, so totally upset by ISP Carter's statements about the killer being a combination of sketch 1 and 2.

"Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say"
"The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.
Now, that's no longer the case."...

..."While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."...

"The Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22," the release said."

I just don't understand the conflicting statements that ISP Carter has made. It truly baffles me as to why it continues without it being specifically explained, by him, as being a mistake was made and this is the correction. Isn't that what the whole releasing the second sketch was all about, righting a wrong? Apparently not in Carter's mind...why?
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say

In the recent WS YT Tricia/BP interview, BP says she rationalises the two sketches as possibly being due to one being based on an Older person's witness account and description and the other sketch being based on a Younger person's witness account and description.

Older person maybe would see everyone as younger, and vice versa.

** BP said this was her own opinion, not on what she had been told, but mainly based on her having seen an overlay of both sketches that resulted in her thinking that it could be the same person from diff aged perspectives.

* MOO....Having heard BP say this, it could make sense of DC's repeated statements about the actual perp being a cross between the two sketches

What do you guys think of the possibility?

Eta: clarify 'Perspectives'

 

[Charlot123]

i dont think, a killer is walking the trails/bridge in broad daylight, wearing his every day work clothes. if he was unprepared like that, why did he get away so well and fast? meanwhile for 3 long years. what is the mystery with him, that of the 50.000 tips at least 10.000 arent for his person?

Maybe it is me, but when I hang my coat next to my husband’s, I barely look at his jacket. Something blue. So one day it is dirty, or has spots, I won’t notice as long as it is at its usual spot. If he moves the jacket two hooks down, I shall look at it more carefully, but routine kills observation power.

However - no way would I miss my husband’s gait, or habits, if I see him on a video. The voice can be mistaken as audio somewhat distorts the sounds. It depends on the timbre of the voice, too, but in general, unless there is something very specific about the manner of speech, people might miss it. But not the video. I bet someone has recognized it.

 

[Charlot123]

In the recent WS YT Tricia/BP interview, BP says she rationalises the two sketches as possibly being due to one being based on an Older person's witness account and description and the other sketch being based on a Younger person's witness account and description.

Older person maybe would see everyone as younger, and vice versa.

** BP said this was her own opinion, not on what she had been told, but mainly based on her having seen an overlay of both sketches that resulted in her thinking that it could be the same person from diff perspectives.

* MOO....Having heard BP say this, it could make sense of DC's repeated statements about the actual perp being a cross between the two sketches

What do you guys think of the possibility?

I think the YBG is rather generic (the way someone described him), but his long chin is his own trait. The witness describing him might have said, “and he resembled such-and-such”, and then the chin became more prominent. So, I don’t think that both sketches are the same person.

 

[arielilane]

It’s always interesting to me how people see things differently. To me, literally nothing about this guy is unique. He was wearing average everyday clothes that you see on any midwestern guy in those temperatures, his voice just sounds like any guy’s voice, you can’t tell anything about the gait of a person walking on a rickety old bridge with large spaces between railroad ties. He doesn’t sound authoritative, he said the word guys which is said all over the country by tons of people, when referencing both boys and girls and men and women, and of course they’d do what he said when he said “down the hill” because by that point he had threatened them in some way and they knew they had to cooperate or be harmed.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that my opinion is obviously quite different than that of others. We all see and hear things differently based on our own life experiences, and when there’s almost nothing to use for clues here, we just have to speculate endlessly.

I’m just glad that the “puppy under the jacket” theory seems to have mostly gone away lol.

Thank you so much for the mindful post. Agreed, 100 %. I never took the time to articulate it.

 

[Cryptic]

9) Do you think he lives a transient lifestyle or is homeless?

I doubt he is a transient or is homeless.

The nature center does not seem to have a resident homeless population and is far enough from the inter state to make coming and going in-convenient for drifters. As a small town, Delphi may not be homeless friendly (fast enforcement of no camping, no soliciting type ordinances).

In addition, the photo seems to be of a man with a neat appearance, not a drifter type appearance. The clothes are clean and unstained. The jeans seem almost pressed and the over all choice of clothing seems vaguely uniform or coordinated- well, in a non stylish sort of way.

In contrast to being homeless, one member advanced the idea of a local "Wally":

Wally works low skill jobs in the area and is possibly slightly "slow", but not mentally retarded by medical definition. He lives with his elderly mother who dresses him by selecting, washing and laying out his clothes.

 

[Imvp2]

I have to respectfully disagree. I wouldn't really remember what I personally wear day to day, let alone remembering what others wear. It's a pretty standard looking jacket to me. And chances are he never wore it again (at least in public) so it wouldn't be a trigger for others. I really think most people are nowhere near as attentive as some give them credit for. Life is busy, work is busy, unless he regularly wore a clown suit, I don't think his clothing would prompt any sort of recognition in others who know him.

To me in my opinion, I don't think he wears the jacket in public anymore, but still keeps it as a "memory" . I think in the past he, or a relative wore the jacket extensively. My opinion, I see the gun outline on the pocket. He, or a relative, had a gun there many many times in that jacket.

 

[TheVisual]

It’s always interesting to me how people see things differently. To me, literally nothing about this guy is unique. He was wearing average everyday clothes that you see on any midwestern guy in those temperatures, his voice just sounds like any guy’s voice, you can’t tell anything about the gait of a person walking on a rickety old bridge with large spaces between railroad ties. He doesn’t sound authoritative, he said the word guys which is said all over the country by tons of people, when referencing both boys and girls and men and women, and of course they’d do what he said when he said “down the hill” because by that point he had threatened them in some way and they knew they had to cooperate or be harmed.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that my opinion is obviously quite different than that of others. We all see and hear things differently based on our own life experiences, and when there’s almost nothing to use for clues here, we just have to speculate endlessly.

I’m just glad that the “puppy under the jacket” theory seems to have mostly gone away lol.

No, it hasn't!

 

[TheVisual]

I am starting to think the opposite. It is very easy to turn from a thin man walking a puppy into an overweight guy with a belly if you put a puppy inside your jacket, and the puppy is quiet.

Agreed!

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I doubt he is a transient or is homeless.

The nature center does not seem to have a resident homeless population and is far enough from the inter state to make coming and going in-convenient for drifters. As a small town, Delphi may not be homeless friendly (fast enforcement of no camping, no soliciting type ordinances).

In addition, the photo seems to be of a man with a neat appearance, not a drifter type appearance. The clothes are clean and unstained. The jeans seem almost pressed and the over all choice of clothing seems vaguely uniform or coordinated- well, in a non stylish sort of way.

In contrast to being homeless, one member advanced the idea of a local "Wally":

Wally works low skill jobs in the area and is possibly slightly "slow", but not mentally retarded by medical definition. He lives with his elderly mother who dresses him by selecting, washing and laying out his clothes.

You could be right. In the murder of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents in Alberta, the murderer was in his fifties and lived down the basement of his elderly parents. He even watched the news about the murder with them.

They didn’t have a clue that the deceased bodies were laying out behind a shed. They were also clueless when he burned the bodies in a fire pit. The neighbours noticed the smoke but they didn’t.

So BG very well could be undetected in a home with parents. All they have to do is lie to them.

 

[Cryptic]

You could be right. In the murder of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents in Alberta, the murderer was in his fifties and lived down the basement of his elderly parents.

If the hypothetical individual is slow- but responsible for his actions, he may have an employer who employs the individual and tolerates lapses / limited performance as a means of giving back to the community.

Maybe canvass the local businesses to see if they employ a reclusive "Wally". Perhaps the assistant custodian, extra grocery stocker / bagger, or helper to the groundskeeper whose position is largely a form of community assistance.

The business owners may have noticed a change in routine or behavior that the elderly parents may not have noticed- or chose not to notice.

 

[MistyWaters]

You could be right. In the murder of Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents in Alberta, the murderer was in his fifties and lived down the basement of his elderly parents. He even watched the news about the murder with them.

They didn’t have a clue that the deceased bodies were laying out behind a shed. They were also clueless when he burned the bodies in a fire pit. The neighbours noticed the smoke but they didn’t.

So BG very well could be undetected in a home with parents. All they have to do is lie to them.

The perpetrator was also undergoing weekly psychiatric sessions at the time as well. Obviously he was able to hide his murderous inclinations extremely well from absolutely everyone, including professionals. Had it not been for CCTV from a home under construction down the street that revealed a distinctive old green 1/2 ton truck circling around during the middle of the night, he may never have been caught.

 

[MichMan015]

Just a couple comments primarily about the location. We used to live near Delphi and I worked there at the Andersons for ten years back then. I hunt, fish, explore and do lots of outdoor things. I have taken my boys fishing, boating and been all over the area. Working at Andersons we dealt with trains and rail cars but never did the MHB ever come up. I knew all the farmers and neighbors close to MHB. I walked many fields looking for arrow heads, and never knew or heard people talk of it. I still have friends there. I have driven down some of the roads near MHB. I do not think someone stumbled on to MHB. You needed to know it was there. I doubt someone out for a joy ride found this place on their own. Someone either took BG there or he lives or lived near there.
Also BG's pocket looks to me like it has a pistol in it. I conceal carry and have for many years. I have carried pistols in holsters and pockets and he is carrying a pistol.
Gunshots are common in the midwest and most people would not pay attention or think anything about hearing a shot or multiple shots.
The area is very conservative and Delphi/Flora has a large Mennonite community, not a violent group.
This appears to me to be a random homicide. That is one reason clues are hard to come by. I think BG must still live near the area as well. He had some time or an afternoon to himself and that is where he chose to spend his time. I do not think he was some over the road guy just traveling through.
It's been long enough let's get this guy!
Michman015

 

[minazoe]

Quite sometime back I felt he might live with his mother or grandmother, due to his jeans being creased, possibly ironed, or folded in a manner to create a crease . This is old school and a woman's way. Not many men adhere to this kind of thing. and jeans definitely do not come this way when you buy retail. ( with the exception of women's designer jeans with a retro flair) . mOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Like many of you, I read and watch various bits of information about this case from various profilers. One such profiler, John Kelly, recently made a couple points I think are really critical to this case. Many of you have already emphasized these points, but I think they are worth reinforcing.

First, this guy is a trail killer. We have other examples of trail killers and their MO's. Why trails? Well for the obvious fact they are great for lurking and provide camouflage. Another important point is that they *don't have cameras* like most streets these days, and they know this. Trail killer. *Like Elizabeth Collins, and Lyric Cook in Evansdale, Iowa.*

We can also look at, and learn a lot from a case where the Perp was captured. This was another two girl capture; hands were zip tied. That is the Dayton, OH murder of Kathlynn Shepard,15, and her friend D.H. (12), who got away. The Perp was Michael Klunder who took the girls to a hog confinement *where he worked*. D.H. was able to escape when Klunder took Kathlynn Shepard to another part of the property. Kathlynn's body was found in the Des Moines river.

Profiler Kelly has made, what I think is a very important point about the intellectual profile of the Perp in Libby and Abby's case. While it seems he must be somewhat intelligent to have evaded capture thus far, Kelly points out *he didn't leave the girls in the creek where DNA would have been washed way*. And of course, there is the phone. Sharp little Libby left behind some incredible evidence. I think it's safe to say this guy isn't the sharpest tool in the shed; he's just been lucky *so far*....but his time is running out.

So how are we going to catch this guy? Three key ways, IMO.
First, study every aspect of Michael Klunder's life (arrested for Shepard murder). There are so many parallels it seems; what can we learn? We know what he did for a living, but what was his social profile? Was he a hunter, gamer, sought prostitutes, etc. We might be able to learn something from Klunder's worthless life that might apply to Libby and Abby's perp - a new angle.

Work with MSM to do a massive media blitz that exposes the image and voice of the Perp. It seems once you get out of the very immediate area of Delphi, not much is known about this case. Media, media, media; especially within a 250 miles radius.

Finally, it will be DNA that convicts this guy. Steps one and two will help identify him.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Quite sometime back I felt he might live with his mother or grandmother, due to his jeans being creased, possibly ironed, or folded in a manner to create a crease . This is old school and a woman's way. Not many men adhere to this kind of thing. and jeans definitely do not come this way when you buy retail. ( with the exception of women's designer jeans with a retro flair) . mOO

Men who wear uniforms create creases - or get them creased. Some occupations that wear uniforms are required to have creases.

 

[somequestions]

One question I had is whether or not the families of the victims believe the police investigation is going in the right direction? How many people believe the police are correct that the killer is most likely from Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area?

I think that while he may have some connection to Delphi, Indiana whether that be work or past relationships, I do not think he currently lives in Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area. With the way police describe the killer's connection to Delphi, Indiana they basically are saying it could be anyone who either lives or lived in Delphi, works or worked in Delphi, or visits or visited Delphi maybe for family or some other reason. That basically covers everything since even I think a person would have to find out about the Monon High Bridge and know how to get there by having been to Delphi, Indiana before(for any reason that provides a connection to Delphi, Indiana).