Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[sunshineray]

I wouldn’t put much stock in anything LE said early on. You can file that “know what your kids are doing” remark in the HeadScratcher drawer along with “we’re calling off the search. We don’t think they’re in danger”(on a mid-Feb night in Indiana), “the community is in no danger”(after finding two brutally murdered girls and hadn’t investigated yet), etc. In summary, LE did not know what they were talking about then...literally. It was too early. Unfortunately their mindless words have caused a lot of misunderstanding. Just my opinion.

And yet it was said by LE, at that April 2019 presser two years later, that they were starting over. That to me rules nothing out.

 

[crhedBngr]

I'm pretty sure he was released and serving the rest of his sentence on home detention. Round about Jan 2018 Jmo

Do you have a link for this? If so, I'd like to read it

TIA.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Am I the only one who thinks there are two killers,who adducting Abby,and Libby, kept them somewhere else, did horrible things to them, killed them, brought them back to that location to dump them. BG 1 led them down to BG 2. The composite is a mix of both gutys
MOO

 

[Inali]

Am I the only one who thinks there are two killers,who adducting Abby,and Libby, kept them somewhere else, did horrible things to them, killed them, brought them back to that location to dump them. BG 1 led them down to BG 2. The composite is a mix of both gutys
MOO

I think you're mostly right except I don't think the girls were taken offsite and brought back, too much risk of being spotted.

 

[minazoe]

I think you're mostly right except I don't think the girls were taken offsite and brought back, too much risk of being spotted.

I don't think so either, at least I don't think they were brought back and dumped. But I do believe the killer watched and maybe even spent the night in the woods.

after this , even if he left close proximity, he was parked on a barstool, restaurant counter or living room in front of the local news.

if there are two of these losers we only need one..one will rat out the other. guaranteed.

mOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I don't think so either, at least I don't think they were brought back and dumped. But I do believe the killer watched and maybe even spent the night in the woods.

after this , even if he left close proximity, he was parked on a barstool, restaurant counter or living room in front of the local news.

if there are two of these losers we only need one..one will rat out the other. guaranteed.

mOO

I don't know. They didn't find them till the next day. So could be they missed spotting them getting dumped. It hasn't been released yet the cause,or manner of death, or any of that. Not even sure if it has been stated specifically if the place they were found, was the place of death. MOO

 

[minazoe]

well its just that the LE says the murders happened almost immediately...if not they could have been brought back alive and killed at the site.

only LE knows the real truth. or maybe they don't? where's the FBI? hope we hear an update from John Walsh.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Am I the only one who thinks there are two killers,who adducting Abby,and Libby, kept them somewhere else, did horrible things to them, killed them, brought them back to that location to dump them. BG 1 led them down to BG 2. The composite is a mix of both gutys
MOO

A good many folks thought that was a possibility very early on and some still do. Over time though it has kinda faded. For me, I doubt they were moved. Together they would have weighed over 300 pounds. Moving them on steep difficult terrain and bringing them back on that same terrain in the dark with family members still searching through the night and not being seen, seems unlikely.

 

[TristanP]

Am I the only one who thinks there are two killers,who adducting Abby,and Libby, kept them somewhere else, did horrible things to them, killed them, brought them back to that location to dump them. BG 1 led them down to BG 2. The composite is a mix of both gutys
MOO

I doubt you’re the only one who thinks this, but it doesn’t make any logical sense. There’s far too much risk involved in returning them to where they were abducted.

Keep it simple.

 

[MistyWaters]

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
Indiana State Police sent this bulletin at 04/22/2019 12:30 PM EDT
“......This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

It would be a matter of procedural routine for medical examiners to determine the difference between bodies moved or bodies murdered at the location where they were found.

For some reason unknown to us, LE believes the murders occurred within minutes of Libby’s video. How that could be, I don’t know but a couple of possible ways I can think of - Libby’s cellphone continued to record audio after “down the hill”. Or a witness heard gunshots, thought nothing of it at the time but reported it to LE after the discovery of the bodies of the two girls the following day.

________________________
@sunshineray
Also from this same link -
“As Superintendent Carter said today, "We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

*****
But I’m not sure this means anything more than, as we know, sketch #2 was drawn by the assistance of a witness who “saw something they felt needed to be reported” (as opposed to an eye-witness who observed the murders occurring). This comment was a police verbal technique, a sort of “rattling of the chains” comment by Carter, IMO as the killer likely has no idea what this person actually saw.

 

[ab01]

I doubt you’re the only one who thinks this, but it doesn’t make any logical sense. There’s far too much risk involved in returning them to where they were abducted.

Keep it simple.

Yep if it happened that way it goes against everything I have ever seen. It would go against BG's goal of not being caught. Generally murderers want to distance themselves from the crime scene especially when it comes to being caught red handed with bodies.There would be too many unknowns for BG to take that risk, He would have known people would come looking etc and no way of knowing when everyone had completely cleared the area. Even if BG had a scanner or some inside Knowledge via LE scanner etc it would have been insanely risky to return to an active official or even unofficial search location. Perps returning to the search area to assist with a search is extraordinarily rare (although it has happened). But returning to the crime scene to place victims after he had already fled undetected would just be highly unlikely, If it did happen I would expect this case to have been solved very quickly. Its far more likely that BG marched them to the recovery site killed them and fled more or less undetected(at least undetected enough to not raise any immediate scrutiny). Alternate complex theories make for good discussion, but these murders were probably much quicker and less complicated then what many want to believe. Cases that have little solid directional evidence(like I believe this case does) are hard to solve because they aren't complex. The more complex abduction/murder is, the more evidence that can be uncovered. My prediction is that BG went, he stalked, he abducted/marched them to a specific location, killed them and fled. He was as much brazen as he was lucky, He wouldn't have been as lucky if he abducted them left with them and brought them back IMO. Its one thing to get lucky once and get away, but to return and get away a second time would be odds that can't even be calculated IMO bc they are so minuscule.

 

[ab01]

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
Indiana State Police sent this bulletin at 04/22/2019 12:30 PM EDT
“......This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

It would be a matter of procedural routine for medical examiners to determine the difference between bodies moved or bodies murdered at the location where they were found.

For some reason unknown to us, LE believes the murders occurred within minutes of Libby’s video. How that could be, I don’t know but a couple of possible ways I can think of - Libby’s cellphone continued to record audio after “down the hill”. Or a witness heard gunshots, thought nothing of it at the time but reported it to LE after the discovery of the bodies of the two girls the following day.

________________________
@sunshineray
Also from this same link -
“As Superintendent Carter said today, "We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

*****
But I’m not sure this means anything more than, as we know, sketch #2 was drawn by the assistance of a witness who “saw something they felt needed to be reported” (as opposed to an eye-witness who observed the murders occurring). This comment was a police verbal technique, a sort of “rattling of the chains” comment by Carter, IMO as the killer likely has no idea what this person actually saw.

Yah it was a pressure tactic to try to rattle BG and make him think that they have more solid evidence than what they do. So far it seems that it didn't work. JMO

 

[Jax49]

Following is just my opinion . . .

I've been wondering just why RL is still incarcerated. He has projected release dates in 2018.

Firstly, RL is not a POI. I believe he was cleared by LE.

I thought maybe he's there for his personal protection.

Just a hunch.

Here's the link: Indiana Offender Database Search

Please see my post #1037 for links to RL's release.

He was released to home detention in January 2018.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention

ETA: Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase

 

[JnRyan]

Yah it was a pressure tactic to try to rattle BG and make him think that they have more solid evidence than what they do. So far it seems that it didn't work. JMO

He was probably watching at home. Sitting in his beanbag chair in his underwear, eating Cheetos and grinning.

 

[TheVisual]

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
Indiana State Police sent this bulletin at 04/22/2019 12:30 PM EDT
“......This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

It would be a matter of procedural routine for medical examiners to determine the difference between bodies moved or bodies murdered at the location where they were found.

For some reason unknown to us, LE believes the murders occurred within minutes of Libby’s video. How that could be, I don’t know but a couple of possible ways I can think of - Libby’s cellphone continued to record audio after “down the hill”. Or a witness heard gunshots, thought nothing of it at the time but reported it to LE after the discovery of the bodies of the two girls the following day.

________________________
@sunshineray
Also from this same link -
“As Superintendent Carter said today, "We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

*****
But I’m not sure this means anything more than, as we know, sketch #2 was drawn by the assistance of a witness who “saw something they felt needed to be reported” (as opposed to an eye-witness who observed the murders occurring). This comment was a police verbal technique, a sort of “rattling of the chains” comment by Carter, IMO as the killer likely has no idea what this person actually saw.

When Carter said "We have a witness" could it have meant Abby herself? If the rumors were true, could she have somehow told them who it was or something she said as the "witness" ? This has never been explored on here to my knowledge. JMO

 

[minazoe]

oh make no mistake, this human garbage loves watching himself on tv and following himself on the internet...he probably puts himself up there with Bundy because he did two little girls at once.

even Ted was ashamed of his child murder and wouldn't acknowledge it or discuss it, even hypothetically.

even Ted who said he didn't give F--! about any of his victims or what he did, had some distaste or maybe even shame.

maybe he's really less like Ted and more like the filthy and disgusting BTK who rolled around like a pig in slop over all his evil doings , live and in a court of law.

don't flatter yourself, loser. we will get you and trust me you won't be a celebrity killer in Indiana.

mOO

 

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip: quoted post removed due to rumor> the petition and subsequent Court sealing of the autopsy report indicates the death of both girls occurred on Feb 13th.

See post #7 BBM
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #47
Petition to Seal Autopsy Reports filed

Filed By:
State of Indiana


File Stamp:
03/28/2017

Order Issued

On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana....”

 

[MistyWaters]

When Carter said "We have a witness" could it have meant Abby herself? If the rumors were true, could she have somehow told them who it was or something she said as the "witness" ? This has never been explored on here to my knowledge. JMO

Abby is a victim who was murdered on Feb 13th. It serves no useful purpose to disregard the few facts which have been released IMO.

The rumor that Abby died a day later iirc began because the 14th was published in her memorial. That was the date she was found so her family took the liberty of referring to that date which apparently is a common practise as well. This contradiction has been discussed at great lengths on these threads in the past. But the 14th was never referred to as the date of death by any other MSM source that I can recall.

 

[ab01]

Abby is a victim who was murdered on Feb 13th. It serves no useful purpose to disregard the few facts which have been released IMO.

The rumor that Abby died a day later iirc began because the 14th was published in her memorial. That was the date she was found so her family took the liberty of referring to that date which apparently is a common practise as well. This contradiction has been discussed at great lengths on these threads in the past. But the 14th was never referred to as the date of death by any other MSM source that I can recall.

Yep any reference to such is mere fabrication imo. We have even had locals here say that it was in fact a bunch of hogwash, but unfortunately once a rumor gets started its impossible to squash IMO

 

[TheVisual]

Abby is a victim who was murdered on Feb 13th. It serves no useful purpose to disregard the few facts which have been released IMO.

The rumor that Abby died a day later iirc began because the 14th was published in her memorial. That was the date she was found so her family took the liberty of referring to that date which apparently is a common practise as well. This contradiction has been discussed at great lengths on these threads in the past. But the 14th was never referred to as the date of death by any other MSM source that I can recall.

I didn't infer that she died a day later. It could have been minutes or hours. JMO