Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

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In the recent WS YT Tricia/BP interview, BP says she rationalises the two sketches as possibly being due to one being based on an Older person's witness account and description and the other sketch being based on a Younger person's witness account and description.

Older person maybe would see everyone as younger, and vice versa.

** BP said this was her own opinion, not on what she had been told, but mainly based on her having seen an overlay of both sketches that resulted in her thinking that it could be the same person from diff aged perspectives.

* MOO....Having heard BP say this, it could make sense of DC's repeated statements about the actual perp being a cross between the two sketches

What do you guys think of the possibility?

Eta: clarify 'Perspectives'
That could for sure be possible. I just can't understand LE coming out with the wording in what I posted, two different men and to disregard the first sketch as someone they're not interested in anymore. That keeps it confusing to me because ISP top dog Carter seems to be the one contradicting his own.
 
Quite sometime back I felt he might live with his mother or grandmother, due to his jeans being creased, possibly ironed, or folded in a manner to create a crease . This is old school and a woman's way. Not many men adhere to this kind of thing. and jeans definitely do not come this way when you buy retail. ( with the exception of women's designer jeans with a retro flair) . mOO
Great catch minazoe...I never noticed that about his left pant leg when it comes into the sun. The right leg looks like a pole or stick, something like that, is visible but I never zoomed in on what really does look like a crease on the left leg.
 
Men who wear uniforms create creases - or get them creased. Some occupations that wear uniforms are required to have creases.
Yes but I don't think most men would do that on their jeans so much, unless they're ex-military man wanting them just so. I used to iron my son's jeans that way long ago. Dark jeans would keep the crease very well but the faded kind would only show that faint outline like BG's left leg does. JMO
 
One question I had is whether or not the families of the victims believe the police investigation is going in the right direction? How many people believe the police are correct that the killer is most likely from Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area?

I think that while he may have some connection to Delphi, Indiana whether that be work or past relationships, I do not think he currently lives in Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area. With the way police describe the killer's connection to Delphi, Indiana they basically are saying it could be anyone who either lives or lived in Delphi, works or worked in Delphi, or visits or visited Delphi maybe for family or some other reason. That basically covers everything since even I think a person would have to find out about the Monon High Bridge and know how to get there by having been to Delphi, Indiana before(for any reason that provides a connection to Delphi, Indiana).
I think someone(s) he's close to live in Delphi and he also did at some point, probably not anymore.
 
Yes but I don't think most men would do that on their jeans so much, unless they're ex-military man wanting them just so. I used to iron my son's jeans that way long ago. Dark jeans would keep the crease very well but the faded kind would only show that faint outline like BG's left leg does. JMO

Somewhat anecdotal, but for much of the Midwest and into the West, clean, pressed, creased blue jeans are to agriculture what khakis are to Business Casual. Plaid shirt, please, short sleeve in the Midwest; long sleeves in the West.

Undershirt, white or colored.

I do agree that if this is a younger man in creased jeans -- an older lady takes care of the laundry.

JMHO YMMV

images
 
Just a couple comments primarily about the location. We used to live near Delphi and I worked there at the Andersons for ten years back then. I hunt, fish, explore and do lots of outdoor things. I have taken my boys fishing, boating and been all over the area. Working at Andersons we dealt with trains and rail cars but never did the MHB ever come up. I knew all the farmers and neighbors close to MHB. I walked many fields looking for arrow heads, and never knew or heard people talk of it. I still have friends there. I have driven down some of the roads near MHB. I do not think someone stumbled on to MHB. You needed to know it was there. I doubt someone out for a joy ride found this place on their own. Someone either took BG there or he lives or lived near there.
Also BG's pocket looks to me like it has a pistol in it. I conceal carry and have for many years. I have carried pistols in holsters and pockets and he is carrying a pistol.
Gunshots are common in the midwest and most people would not pay attention or think anything about hearing a shot or multiple shots.
The area is very conservative and Delphi/Flora has a large Mennonite community, not a violent group.
This appears to me to be a random homicide. That is one reason clues are hard to come by. I think BG must still live near the area as well. He had some time or an afternoon to himself and that is where he chose to spend his time. I do not think he was some over the road guy just traveling through.
It's been long enough let's get this guy!
Michman015
I don't know the location and while I've been to IN several times, I've never been to Delphi. I don't believe he CURRENTLY lives there, however, I do believe he did at one time or another. Or was a frequent visitor to a relative or family friend in that area in the past. But currently or in the past this guy would seem to have first hand knowledge of this area prior to the murders. Your knowledge of the area confirms that part.
I also hunted, fished, hiked and explored in the mid-west (family relatives) and in the south growing up, so I totally agree with everything else. A near by gun shot could have likely been ignored or forgotten about in that setting. I tend to believe he killed at least one of the girls by strangling, blunt force or stabbing, but if he used a gun the shot could well have gone unnoticed. Especially a .22 or other smaller caliber.
 
Do you have any evidence for that possibility? Do you have any evidence that Abby and Libby had the expertise to erase their digital footprints well enough to fool the FBI?

The actual police, huh? Really? When did they do that? Did they say that emphatically in a recent interview (i.e., as opposed to during the first weeks of the investigation)?

BBM
Now that's a bad straw man argument. I didn't claim that all acquaintances always address one another by name. In this particular situation, if BG had set up some kind of meeting with the girls, addressing them by name would have made it much easier to gain their compliance. Like it or not, his not using their names is evidence that he didn't know them. (What you do with people you know well is irrelevant.)
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There's also audio of Abby and Libby, and they made no reference to meeting anyone; we know that they chatted about ordinary girl stuff. That's also evidence that no meeting was planned (like it or not).
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Finally, they didn't seem to be very particular about what time they wanted to visit the Monon High Bridge. That's another argument against any sort of meeting (like it or not).
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You also have professional profilers stating that the victims were opportune. No one is claiming that profilers can't be wrong, but their analyses need to be considered.
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In short, you have no evidence whatsoever for any kind of meeting, and you have substantial evidence against that scenario.
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I would suggest that the idea of a meeting is being driven by wishful thinking; you wish to believe that Abby and Libby couldn't merely have been random victims of a sadistic serial killer. Because if they could be victims, anyone could be a victimincluding you, including your loved ones. Believing that Abby and Libby participated in their own victimization, even in such a small way as setting up a mystery meeting, makes you a little more comfortable. From a psychological perspective, victim blaming is at the root of your theory, whether you realize it or not.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Therefore, just because there is no evidence of a prior arranged meeting does not prove there was no arranged meeting. We have not heard all the tape. We do not know all the details of the abduction/meeting/assault and murders or the times and number of witnesses to BG before and after the murders. This is not victim blaming because he could even have just been stalking their SM or their friends SM without their knowledge. He could be a friend of a friend or relative. There are many ways he could have known their plans as they were up most of the night posting music videos on SM. Why did LE say "know what your children are up to". There are so many gaps in this case that any possibility could fit here IMO.
 
In the recent WS YT Tricia/BP interview, BP says she rationalises the two sketches as possibly being due to one being based on an Older person's witness account and description and the other sketch being based on a Younger person's witness account and description.

Older person maybe would see everyone as younger, and vice versa.

** BP said this was her own opinion, not on what she had been told, but mainly based on her having seen an overlay of both sketches that resulted in her thinking that it could be the same person from diff aged perspectives.


* MOO....Having heard BP say this, it could make sense of DC's repeated statements about the actual perp being a cross between the two sketches

What do you guys think of the possibility?

Eta: clarify 'Perspectives'

I think BP could have nailed it. We do know there were young and old at the trails that day someone close to the girls age could describe someone as looking older while an older witness (FSG?) could describe him as younger. In reality the age could be somewhere between the two sketches so 25-30
 
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That could for sure be possible. I just can't understand LE coming out with the wording in what I posted, two different men and to disregard the first sketch as someone they're not interested in anymore. That keeps it confusing to me because ISP top dog Carter seems to be the one contradicting his own.

Yes, Doug Carter is hedging and contradicting. The April 2019 presser was designed to introduce the new sketch with Carter saying, "We have a witness. You made mistakes..." That quote is all over the internet from sources that used the official press release, the one that was released simultaneous to the beginning of the presser.

There is no question that the "witness" was in reference to the younger sketch. For whatever reason Carter clearly hesitated during the presser at the moment he was supposed to deliver the lines. Then he veered elsewhere.

The department had no idea that Carter was rejecting the planned approach. That's why you still had others matter of factly saying to disregard the older sketch. Then once they realized Carter was applying his own slant they buckled and went along with it. Now the older sketch is not rejected but viewed as secondary, with others parroting the Carter theme that it will be a combination of the two sketches.

Carter knows he will be remembered for this case, just like Lance Ito is remembered for the Simpson case. I don't think Carter has full confidence in the younger sketch. I think he's been stung by some of the criticism. It's unusual for a police spokesman to make several references to that type of thing. Carter doesn't want to risk elevated criticism if the case goes long unsolved, and then turns out to be he older version. That's why he's aligning with some combination of all of the above.
 
We can find out anything on the internet. Type any sentence, any question, and it's amazing that someone already posted that information.

Yet somehow with Monon High Bridge Trail we can only know about if if we're a local and physically bumped into it.

That notion will forever amaze me.

I guarantee criminals love it
 
One question I had is whether or not the families of the victims believe the police investigation is going in the right direction? How many people believe the police are correct that the killer is most likely from Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area?

I think that while he may have some connection to Delphi, Indiana whether that be work or past relationships, I do not think he currently lives in Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding area. With the way police describe the killer's connection to Delphi, Indiana they basically are saying it could be anyone who either lives or lived in Delphi, works or worked in Delphi, or visits or visited Delphi maybe for family or some other reason. That basically covers everything since even I think a person would have to find out about the Monon High Bridge and know how to get there by having been to Delphi, Indiana before(for any reason that provides a connection to Delphi, Indiana).
I actually do not believe this person lives in that area. I tend to believe that this is a trucker who frequents this area but does not live there. A person who frequents the area enough to know of the bridge and the roads around there but that doesn't actually live there now. He may have lived in the area in his past. He has a connection to the area but I really don't think he lives there .
 
I have always wondered about the couple too. This is just MOO and I have always wondered about GK and the girlfriend AG. It appears he hung out around RL's place with the horses. They sure don’t appear to be honourable people with getting arrested for another murder.

What if she hung under the bridge and he herded them down there. It doesn’t seem either one of them would hesitate to murder someone. If she were there, the girls probably wouldn’t be scared to go.

Then after they could have hidden in the outbuildings or haystacks at RL's place and RL would never know that they were there. LE sure were looking for something there.

I have never heard it said that he didn’t do it but I have also not heard that he did do it. I just think he is capable of murder and I think he will be found guilty when he goes to trial. Maybe the girls were the first.

Following is just my opinion . . .

I've been wondering just why RL is still incarcerated. He has projected release dates in 2018.

Firstly, RL is not a POI. I believe he was cleared by LE.

I thought maybe he's there for his personal protection.

Just a hunch.

Here's the link: Indiana Offender Database Search
 
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Therefore, just because there is no evidence of a prior arranged meeting does not prove there was no arranged meeting. We have not heard all the tape. We do not know all the details of the abduction/meeting/assault and murders or the times and number of witnesses to BG before and after the murders. This is not victim blaming because he could even have just been stalking their SM or their friends SM without their knowledge. He could be a friend of a friend or relative. There are many ways he could have known their plans as they were up most of the night posting music videos on SM. Why did LE say "know what your children are up to". There are so many gaps in this case that any possibility could fit here IMO.

I wouldn’t put much stock in anything LE said early on. You can file that “know what your kids are doing” remark in the HeadScratcher drawer along with “we’re calling off the search. We don’t think they’re in danger”(on a mid-Feb night in Indiana), “the community is in no danger”(after finding two brutally murdered girls and hadn’t investigated yet), etc. In summary, LE did not know what they were talking about then...literally. It was too early. Unfortunately their mindless words have caused a lot of misunderstanding. Just my opinion.
 
Following is just my opinion . . .

I've been wondering just why RL is still incarcerated. He has projected release dates in 2018.

Firstly, RL is not a POI. I believe he was cleared by LE.

I thought maybe he's there for his personal protection.

Just a hunch.

Here's the link: Indiana Offender Database Search
I'm pretty sure he was released and serving the rest of his sentence on home detention. Round about Jan 2018 Jmo
 
Following is just my opinion . . .

I've been wondering just why RL is still incarcerated. He has projected release dates in 2018.

Firstly, RL is not a POI. I believe he was cleared by LE.

I thought maybe he's there for his personal protection.

Just a hunch.

Here's the link: Indiana Offender Database Search

He was released to home detention in January 2018.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention

ETA: Indiana Supreme Court public access case search - MyCase
 
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And then there are some sketches like the one of Jesse Matthews who killed Hannah Graham and Morgan Harrington, that was a dead ringer of him - so much so that people had made offhand comments to him before he was arrested about how much he looked like the sketch.

That is why I can't dismiss a sketch. There have been others, too, that were incredible likenesses of the perpetrator, but you are right - most of them don't resemble the sketches at all.

It's honestly too bad they released either of the sketches, considering that they have him on video. IMO, the release of the sketches just created doubt in people's minds.

I agree; sometimes sketches closely resemble perpetrators. And other times, not so much.

I do remember that shortly after the sketch was released, there were screen shots of a gentlemen's social media page on one of the many FB groups. There were numerous posts teasing this man on his page that he was a "dead ringer" of the sketch (and he was). His only response was several laughing faces and an "LOL". I remember sleuthing him a little, but never found a tie to the girls or frequenting MHB.

It is interesting that (as another poster mentioned), there are so many men in the area that resemble one or both sketches. I am confident that someone has or will recognize BG. Still hopeful that person will have the courage to come forward.
 
We can find out anything on the internet. Type any sentence, any question, and it's amazing that someone already posted that information.

Yet somehow with Monon High Bridge Trail we can only know about if if we're a local and physically bumped into it.

That notion will forever amaze me.

I guarantee criminals love it

Yes, this is very true.

If I hear on the news that something has happened, I will take a trip there on the map. On cases we have had, we automatically go to the maps to look at the various locations.

On this case, back at the beginning after the girls were found, I went to the maps and found the bridge. Then, I found the small lane that goes under the bridge and followed it back to a main road. It was an eye opener. Then, I went back up the lane and past the bridge, looking for a place to cross Deer Creek. The view on Google showed it at a low "tide" and I was able to visually see where they probably crossed without even getting wet. I posted all this info back then and am still amazed even now about people saying it was too deep.
 
I just stumbled across a YouTube video where someone took the new sketch and used some fancy (and impressive) Photoshop skills to make the sketch look real. Happy to post the link to the video if that's allowed.
 
Yes, Doug Carter is hedging and contradicting. The April 2019 presser was designed to introduce the new sketch with Carter saying, "We have a witness. You made mistakes..." That quote is all over the internet from sources that used the official press release, the one that was released simultaneous to the beginning of the presser.

There is no question that the "witness" was in reference to the younger sketch. For whatever reason Carter clearly hesitated during the presser at the moment he was supposed to deliver the lines. Then he veered elsewhere.

The department had no idea that Carter was rejecting the planned approach. That's why you still had others matter of factly saying to disregard the older sketch. Then once they realized Carter was applying his own slant they buckled and went along with it. Now the older sketch is not rejected but viewed as secondary, with others parroting the Carter theme that it will be a combination of the two sketches.

Carter knows he will be remembered for this case, just like Lance Ito is remembered for the Simpson case. I don't think Carter has full confidence in the younger sketch. I think he's been stung by some of the criticism. It's unusual for a police spokesman to make several references to that type of thing. Carter doesn't want to risk elevated criticism if the case goes long unsolved, and then turns out to be he older version. That's why he's aligning with some combination of all of the above.
Do you know if that April 19th press release is published online? I thought ISP Carter did say those words in that press conference.
 
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