Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[JDough]

I agree with the first point: he didn't plan to cross the creek by himself, IMO. Maybe, he was forced to do it to follow the girls and if he was, he didn't care at all at that moment. MOO

I agree with this ^^^
I think BG went to MHB that day determined to do what he did, whatever the reason.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

double post deleted

 

[Deleted member 102539]

NBA’s $50K grant for Abby & Libby park resonates on several levels in Delphi

Money for the softball park.

"Not just on the $50,000 coming to the Delphi nonprofit and its $1 million dream of a sports complex and community park, built to honor the memory of Abby Williams and Libby German. The friends were Delphi Community Middle School eighth-graders in 2017 when they were killed while hiking a popular trail near the Carroll County town.

But the timing of the All-Star Legacy Grant – along with the $2,100 scholarship that will go to a student in Delphi Community High School’s class of 2021 – struck Erskin.

“He said that year, and it really hit me,” Erskin, Abby Williams’ grandfather, said.

“It was very emotional,” he said. “I mentioned to him, ‘You know, that’s Abby’s and Libby’s class.’ There was this silence on the other end. I was quiet, too.”

To top it off: The NBA All-Star Game will be played at Bankers Life Fieldhouse on Feb. 14, 2021. That will be the fourth anniversary of the day search parties found the girls in a wooded area, about a half-mile away from the Monon High Bridge Trail.

“That whole thing,” Erskin said, “man, it just resonated.” "

Imagine, the killer has ties to a business, which is participating in the construction of the new memory ball park.

 

[Dotrat]

Just listened.

The host asks DC, “With so many people looking for them that first night, why weren’t they found?”

DC replies after a pause, “Um...I think I’ll leave that question unanswered.”

Uh...

I think not answering is, itself, the answer.

MOO a couple of reasons are 1. that BG or accomplice searched that evening and somehow managed to steer searchers away from there, either by saying already looked or just lead group in wrong direction. Or 2. DC knows the police made the wrong call with ending the search that evening and he really has no good answer. Again, just my opinion

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Just curious what you think the reason is?

I don’t think we can know for sure without having more details. But JMO, he could have said he didn’t know or that they weren’t searching in that particular area or that the bodies were overlooked because it was dark. Instead he said he would leave it unanswered, which indicates to me there IS an answer to the question, but he isn’t going to reveal what it is. I think that is part of the “you want to know what we know.” If I were to take a guess, I’d say LE suspects BG was involved in the search. I think that’s part of the “we were onto something early on in the investigation.” My thinking is DC’s wording is meant to give an answer while still keeping details close to the vest. Based on other answers DC has given, I now think there is a possibility that BG has returned to the crime scene.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

I

MOO a couple of reasons are 1. that BG or accomplice searched that evening and somehow managed to steer searchers away from there, either by saying already looked or just lead group in wrong direction. Or 2. DC knows the police made the wrong call with ending the search that evening and he really has no good answer. Again, just my opinion

I agree with your theories.
I would also add there might be the possibility that they actually were found during the search, but LE was not alerted.

 

[JnRyan]

Just curious what you think the reason is?

I am also curious as to the reason. But tonight after I'm burned out on all my theories and scenarios, my curiosity runs in another direction: How do you muddle blueberries and can you use the result with white rum in a drink? After experimenting with my concept perhaps I can return with more enthusiasm tomorrow.

 

[Ozoner]

I was guessing from that remark, (probably incorrectly) that perhaps they felt that the searchers were somehow led away from the scene on purpose.

No. I can tell you exactly why they weren't found that night. They weren't found that night because A) they were in a location where it would have been all but impossible for amateurs to find them at night and B) because the LE professionals did what they usually do: they prejudged two teenage girls, and even though they opted to "check the box" by conducting a search, in the back of their minds they were all thinking that the girls had run off on some kind of caper.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I don’t think we can know for sure without having more details. But JMO, he could have said he didn’t know or that they weren’t searching in that particular area or that the bodies were overlooked because it was dark. Instead he said he would leave it unanswered, which indicates to me there IS an answer to the question, but he isn’t going to reveal what it is. I think that is part of the “you want to know what we know.” If I were to take a guess, I’d say LE suspects BG was involved in the search. I think that’s part of the “we were onto something early on in the investigation.” My thinking is DC’s wording is meant to give an answer while still keeping details close to the vest. Based on other answers DC has given, I now think there is a possibility that BG has returned to the crime scene.

I agree with all of this.

 

[mom2chloe]

I am also curious as to the reason. But tonight after I'm burned out on all my theories and scenarios, my curiosity runs in another direction: How do you muddle blueberries and can you use the result with white rum in a drink? After experimenting with my concept perhaps I can return with more enthusiasm tomorrow.

Cheers!

 

[Gumbeaux]

I have no reason to ever watch Dr. Oz, until now. Only once.

SAME. And this was just not informative, just twiddling thumbs.

 

[Cutiekitty]

No. I can tell you exactly why they weren't found that night. They weren't found that night because A) they were in a location where it would have been all but impossible for amateurs to find them at night and B) because the LE professionals did what they usually do: they prejudged two teenage girls, and even though they opted to "check the box" by conducting a search, in the back of their minds they were all thinking that the girls had run off on some kind of caper.

What time does it actually get dark in Indiana in February? Google says sunset for Delphi On February 13, 2017 would be around 6:20p. In my state it says 6:24p. It wasn’t/isn’t dark dark where I live until 6:45. I do live in a larger city with artificial light (unlike the trails) though. Genuinely curious about this.

I don’t fault LE for calling off searches of the trail area once it was dark. Its a safety issue. Based on interviews, podcasts, etc... it’s my understanding that searches did continue through the night and just the searches of the trail were called off.

 

[mom2chloe]

What time does it actually get dark in Indiana in February? Google says sunset for Delphi On February 13, 2017 would be around 6:20p. In my state it says 6:24p. It wasn’t/isn’t dark dark where I live until 6:45. I do live in a larger city with artificial light (unlike the trails) though. Genuinely curious about this.

I don’t fault LE for calling off searches of the trail area once it was dark. Its a safety issue. Based on interviews, podcasts, etc... it’s my understanding that searches did continue through the night and just the searches of the trail were called off.

Your estimate is approximately correct.

 

[BRRI]

serial killer on the loose , walking the streets, driving around, living, breathing...murderer of children.

this case needs fresh eyes.. mOO

I haven’t been here in awhile but just saw the link posted on another thread so thought I would come and read. This was exactly my thought after reading. They need to bring in a whole new team and let them look everything over, IMO. Let them independently analyze everything and then work together moving forward. It’s scary that we really don’t seem any closer than we were 3 years ago.

 

[BRRI]

Back when a serial killer was defined as someone who killed at least three people in three separate incidents over a long period of time, the FBI estimated that there were 50 serial killers active in the US at any one time. (I always thought that number was low.) Now that only two separate murders qualify a murderer as a serial killer, there must be many, many more. Many likely make their murders look like accidents or vary their MOs enough that no one ever suspects the hand of a serial killer at work.
-
BG is just one of many. Dozens like him have fried in electric chairs or choked in gas chambers.

While I agree, I think what makes this most bothersome is that we literally have pictures, video, and audio of him, and yet no arrest. It’s scary that the girls did everything right, yet we are still at this point.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

this is not a criticism, cases like this can freeze for years on end.
fresh eyes could work side by side with the on-going investigation.

fresh eyes.

I think our big chance is America's Most Wanted ..


I hope he can appeal to that someone who might remember someone who really disappeared, changed, lost it, fell apart, became obsessed etc...that one person who
has been in denial or afraid to come forward. I hope they can send the right message to reach that one person...that's all we need.

I am hoping that LE deliberately didn't release any additional info on the 3rd anniversary because they were saving it for the AMW airing.

It would be an ideal way for them to release a key piece of info they have held back until now...and then maybe stand back and see who scurries away in fright attempting to cover their tracks.

JMO

 

[TristanP]

I saw a discussion on Reddit today. A topic that has been brought up countless times. Someone said the way the murderer said “Guys” must mean he was known to them and was a teacher, coach, or other adult they would have obeyed.

Someone else said this is a ridiculous idea and there’s no way Libby wouldn’t have said the person’s name on her recording if she knew who it was. Why would she be recording someone she knew, and if she was smart enough to be recording the person because she was suspicious, surely she’d be smart enough to say the person’s name or identify him in some way. Like, oh, you’re the coach for the team we played against, or you teach math at the middle school, don’t you?

Reddit can be hard to follow so I thought I’d ask what people here think about this.

 

[TL4S]

I saw a discussion on Reddit today. A topic that has been brought up countless times. Someone said the way the murderer said “Guys” must mean he was known to them and was a teacher, coach, or other adult they would have obeyed.

Someone else said this is a ridiculous idea and there’s no way Libby wouldn’t have said the person’s name on her recording if she knew who it was. Why would she be recording someone she knew, and if she was smart enough to be recording the person because she was suspicious, surely she’d be smart enough to say the person’s name or identify him in some way. Like, oh, you’re the coach for the team we played against, or you teach math at the middle school, don’t you?

Reddit can be hard to follow so I thought I’d ask what people here think about this.

The family has said the girls mentioned the guy behind them in one of the recordings (whether they actually said "creepy guy" is rumor, at this point, as it's GH and Facebook sourced). And in the last "Down the Hill" podcast, Ives basically called this a "stranger" killing, as opposed to most the murders around the area having been crimes of passion by someone known to the victim.

I, personally, don't think they knew him.

 

[TL4S]

Just listened.

The host asks DC, “With so many people looking for them that first night, why weren’t they found?”

DC replies after a pause, “Um...I think I’ll leave that question unanswered.”

Uh...

I think not answering is, itself, the answer.

There may be no hidden meaning at all. DC knows how touchy the subject is in the public's opinion. No matter how he answers search-related questions, LE is continually faced with criticism. That distrust could actually hinder the person with that "one tip," who's possibly afraid, from feeling LE will protect them. JMO

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I assume you did this with hands out for balance. Not in your pockets like this killer appeared to be doing. I'm curious. Based on your crossing how long would it have taken for you to cross the bridge had you not stopped to take photos but were determined to cross it quickly? Did your crossing the bridge convince that this killer has likely crossed it before - in the past, if not earlier that same day?

I had my hands out in case they were needed during a slippage or fall or anything sudden. I certainly didn't want to be freefalling while looking through the lens of a camera. I had noticed moss on the bridge. I was not expecting that. The mossy sections were slick. I think the video I took from the end of the bridge looking backward shows some green areas of moss.

I would estimate I could have crossed in maybe 6-7 minutes if doing it hurriedly and without fear. Then shave at least a minute off that for someone younger and with prior experience on the bridge.

I definitely think Bridge Guy had crossed many times. But I don't think that aligns with local necessity. I see no reason why he couldn't have looked for an ideal location -- online or in person -- found that one, and then visited 2-3 times while putting together a plan. If it happened that way I think he would have already been bored on the third day of reconnaissance.

My overall belief is that he had several locations picked out as possibles and toured between them until ideal conditions clicked. Trails are remote by definition. Moyer Gould Woods and Trailhead Park had trails that felt more isolated and spooky than Monon High. I'm actually surprised there have not been more high profile murders on trails. Also at campgrounds.

The end of the bridge is not comparable to the totality or especially the beginning. Not remotely similar. I'm frustrated when that is not fully recognized. But I can understand it because the doomsday views are invariably above or below that initial section. It leaves the impression that the bridge remains that way throughout. That is ridiculous.

I easily could have walked with my hands in my pockets over the final section of the bridge. I could have walked hands in pockets and very rapidly. The gaps are so narrow you don't worry about them anyone. It feels like cupcakes. You are no longer over water. Now there are thin trees on both sides. It feels like a funnel. It is no longer scenic since you can't see the creek. It feels like there is no reason to go slow when the footing is fine and you aren't seeing anything particularly noteworthy anyway.

Over that final 100 feet or so the bridge feels like planks that are attached to the ground. It may not actually be that way if viewed from underneath, but it certainly feels that way.

Abby and Libby would not have been alarmed at Bridge Guy's pace. They would recognize speeding up as perfectly normal at the end of the bridge. The strange aspect would have been someone else on the bridge period. I guarantee that doesn't happen 2% of the time. It would be common courtesy and logical safety to remain off the bridge until another party had completely finished, even if that meant waiting for them to walk all the way back.

If they had seen Bridge Guy previously they could have been thinking this guy is weird and stupid enough to venture out onto the bridge while we're still up here.

Also, this is seldom mentioned but I absolutely guarantee Bridge Guy turned around and checked behind him for at least the first half of the crossing and probably more like 2/3. He can't afford for anyone else to see him out onto the bridge. I think he waited beforehand near the foot of the bridge and timed his entrance to catch Abby and Libby as they finished, and was perfectly willing to abort if either someone showed up behind him, or if Abby and Libby had dashed off into the private yards beyond the bridge.