Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[somequestions]

Im not a fan personally, but initially what else do they have ?

They have to get something out, composites are extremely unreliable but it helps to key the public eye on someone who may resemble the sketch

the hope is someone will recognize it and come forward

i think Delphi is doing its best with it , the video is really bad

My opinion is that it was ok to release sketches if the goal was to try to further eliminate individuals that were out on the trails that day as being involved in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. If it had been presented that way I think it would have been a lot better.

I do not know what others feelings are towards the second press conference with the current sketch of the young guy. Putting the second sketch on the same poster as a still of the video is going to give people impressions about the investigation. It gave me the impression that LE had basically figured out who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German based on an eyewitness who saw this person and their car parked near the trail. Therefore even though there was a video, it had been deemed as being not useful and no matter that it is hard to identify a subject in that video, as long as they were sure the man in the sketch was their guy, eventually a tip would come in that would confirm their suspicions eventually. It has not happened yet, but maybe it will in the future. But I think most people who listen to what the police have to say about this investigation are going to be looking for a man who looks like the second sketch and who is in the age range of 18-40 and is from Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding local area.

It is kind of interesting how people view locations psychologically. It made me wonder how police would view the same case if it happened in Grand Canyon National Park?

 

[Michigan]

I didn't take that as saying she didn't feel fear. I took it to mean that she was going to stand up to him and not let what she might feel stop her.

I also wondered if the person she suspected was known to be in jail at that time and therefore (paraphrasing) ‘if it is who I think it is I’m not afraid.’ But I could be remembering her quote incorrectly. MOO

 

[Ozoner]

I do not know what others feelings are towards the second press conference with the current sketch of the young guy. Putting the second sketch on the same poster as a still of the video is going to give people impressions about the investigation. It gave me the impression that LE had basically figured out who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German based on an eyewitness who saw this person and their car parked near the trail. Therefore even though there was a video, it had been deemed as being not useful and no matter that it is hard to identify a subject in that video, as long as they were sure the man in the sketch was their guy, eventually a tip would come in that would confirm their suspicions eventually. It has not happened yet, but maybe it will in the future. But I think most people who listen to what the police have to say about this investigation are going to be looking for a man who looks like the second sketch and who is in the age range of 18-40 and is from Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding local area.

Why would putting the sketch and video still together on a poster suggest that LE had identified BG? I don't follow that logic at all. If LE had identified BG, they wouldn't have needed to release another sketch. The second sketch being paired with the video means that LE has a credible eyewitness and that LE believes that the person seen by the eyewitness was actually BG (perhaps based on the witnesses's description of the clothing).

 

[Kell1]

My opinion is that it was ok to release sketches if the goal was to try to further eliminate individuals that were out on the trails that day as being involved in the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. If it had been presented that way I think it would have been a lot better.

I do not know what others feelings are towards the second press conference with the current sketch of the young guy. Putting the second sketch on the same poster as a still of the video is going to give people impressions about the investigation. It gave me the impression that LE had basically figured out who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German based on an eyewitness who saw this person and their car parked near the trail. Therefore even though there was a video, it had been deemed as being not useful and no matter that it is hard to identify a subject in that video, as long as they were sure the man in the sketch was their guy, eventually a tip would come in that would confirm their suspicions eventually. It has not happened yet, but maybe it will in the future. But I think most people who listen to what the police have to say about this investigation are going to be looking for a man who looks like the second sketch and who is in the age range of 18-40 and is from Delphi, Indiana or the surrounding local area.

It is kind of interesting how people view locations psychologically. It made me wonder how police would view the same case if it happened in Grand Canyon National Park?

Sketches are more like a BOLO type thing, its another tool to help solve a crime, or identify a potential suspect.

In this case, we have video of "Someone" who may or may not be involved in the girls murder. but other than what hes possibly wearing on his body , his face is totally skewed.

The initial sketch and the secondary sketch look nothing alike , I think in this case, it hurts the investigation because, which one are we looking for ?

IMO they released, info WAY too slowly, they took too long to let info out there, they shouldve released that video as son as they had it, audio the same, they should reveal the manner of death as well that may spark someones memory as to what may have happpened

Small things can be kept out of the public light , but all we know is this

2 girls went into the woods, both were murdered, a video and audio recording of a man were on Libbys phone

Thats IT!

I will say this again, SOMEONE out there knows who did this they are just refusing to say anythig or theyre not putting 2 and 2 together because so little is known about the murders.

If they released lets say manner of death that may helpsomeone remember something "oh yeah I saw my neighbor with blood on his clothes but he said he hit a deer" kinda thing

I know you have to weed stuff out but the more you give the public to think about the more helpful it is

 

[Kell1]

Post offense youd see a guy who was overly interested in the case, way beyond the norm, he may volunteer to help look for the girls while they were still listed as "missing"

They may keep clippings, or download news clips about the case.

In the inttial days following the murders he would most likely seem anxious which would be most obvious after the girls were found .

There could be an increase in the use of intoxicants, or tobacco, there is usually shedding of clothing items, which should raise suspicion particularly if its done in strange ways like burning or burying them. You will see this too with items such as vehicles they may sell or all the sudden destroy.

They may also become MORE religious or seek out psychiatric help all the sudden.

They may fall suddenly ill or need hospitalization.

They usually can account for their time, but with some embellishment, that's overlooked by those around them.

He may remark things that turn out to be true about the crime "I bet they're looking in the wrong place " and where they say the bodies turn up

He may suddenly move to another location

They may alter their appearance especially if a composite or a photo or video captures something , shaving , cutting, or coloring hair, weight loss and gain, are all common. and EXTREME measures arent out of the realm of possibility either , I remember one killer when it was rumored they had bite impression evidence pulled out all his own teeth with pliers and got rid of them !

He may even confide in someone who he knows wont turn him in .

They usually return to the body recovery site at least once, usually before the victim(s) are found but in this case, they were found relatively quickly so with such a large presence in the area during the search , I wouldnt put it past him that he most likely did after.

 

[JnRyan]

This is crazy. I wonder how many came from IN, and how many were from remote places, and based on the second sketch (revealed in 2019) only.

Yes, I'm following the Suzanne Morphew missing person case. After almost a month WS is on thread #13, but I heard one newscast say they have 150 tips. The Suzanne Morphew case is blowing up here on WS, but I believe 150 tips is about 1/10th of what LE received by the first week of March 2017 on Abigail and Liberty.

 

[mimimarge]

Yes! I saved a link to the video, specifically because of the caller (Dennis). Despite the fact I have listened numerous times, I can't find the conversation at the moment. Here's the link:

1:59 they talk about touch dna on the shoulder of the sweatshirt

 

[Heaven Leigh]

You would think having the voice and the physical appearance from pic on Bridge or even his gait would be enough. Its like a needle in a haystack really.
But it should be plain as day to a person that knows BG. That to me is the missing piece is someone coming forward that knows this guy.
Either those around him are unaware of this crime and has seen zero coverage or just wont come forward out of loyalty or fear.
Its mind boggling.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm leaning in this direction.

At the PC Doug Carter alluded to "new information", I believe he used the word "intel", and he may have said something that sounded like LE had gotten their information from some kind of what I would describe as 'chatter'.

New information...means what, exactly? They didn't specify and still have not done so.

I did not know anything about the Tinsley case here in Fort Wayne until after moving here in late '15. Miller (the perp) taunted LE for years, apparently. I do not to what extent LE let the public know about the taunting, I do know he stopped doing it in 2004 and by then LE had informed the public some taunting had happened. So between roughly 1988 when April was murdered, and 2004, taunting happened.

I'm of the opinion the Delphi killer has perhaps taunted or maybe teased LE, maybe even contacted them directly, but we won't know until that information or some of it is released.

I keep going back to the PC from April of last year, I think it was purely done as a message to the killer, besides the release of the video and audio. As weird as this may sound, maybe LE have a screen grab of the killer's face, albeit blurred or what have you, from some dark web type deal.

Why would they be so convinced it's a younger perp, than they did previously?

JMO

bbm
I believe, they know him now since last PC in 2019. Maybe, it was his doppelganger on the bridge (seriously meant, but I won't explain) in the first sketch. If you put sketch #1 and sketch #2 one on top of the other, you will see: they are not very different except the (longer) chin and a beard and the hairstyle. Witnesses saw perhaps both men; LE decided, which should be the right man on the bridge and decided it to be the slightly older looking man, which fits with the blurring video.

IMO, it was very misleading, to say by LE in 2019, he is "between the age range of 18 to 40, but maybe looking younger". "Younger" than what age exactly?? If he was ie. 29 yo in Febr. 2017, then he would maybe have looked only 26,5 yo or what? And when was he "maybe" looking younger: after PC in 2019, before PC in 2019 backwards to 2017, in the future ((2020), in comparison to the first sketch in 2017? MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Good question. I kind of feel like maybe for whatever reason she's not on LE's radar, or only peripherally involved. Maybe they talked to her briefly but in a perfunctory way.

I think the person is probably an abused wife or girlfriend, but could be adult child or maybe sibling. Possibly his mother.

I don't think, LE talked to anybody, that had a close bond. MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

He is a narcissist and had the opportunity.

Idk, if he is narcissist, but he had more opportunity than everybody else, I believe.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thank you for posting this. I had no idea that Kelsi German was so frightened about BG coming back to harm her. Poor kid.

But why did she say the contrary first? I did never understand that and found her statement like challenging the perp. I thought, it would be stupid to do that. He is on the loose and he is unscrupulous, so one would have to fear him as a big sister to one of his victims. MOO

 

[mimimarge]

That Flora fire press conference, at the end questions and answers part where the reporter asked if all the family members in the Delphi case had been cleared, ISP Carter's answer was, "The vast majority have been". I took that to mean including both families and in a wide and general sense. He was not being specific at all. I actually felt bad for him because he looked like a deer in the headlights at that question, out of the blue and really off topic.

I believe Flora has significance in that it might be closer to the relatives of the BG

 

[rosesfromangels]

I believe Flora has significance in that it might be closer to the relatives of the BG

Why do you think that?

 

[JDough]

Im most cases the the suspects name is known within the first week

In your professional opinion, why do you believe LE has released two sketches? Is it possible their original suspect was cleared in some way? Also, why would LE disregard (or not use) the original sketch where the description was given shortly after the crime took place? If they had their suspect within the first week, why did they wait several months to release the first sketch depicting an older POI/Suspect?

The release of two sketches (years apart), has caused such confusion because of the vast differences in appearance. IMO, this has caused many (including Libby's mother) to loose faith in LE's ability to solve the crime. There has to be a reason LE "changed directions"- the question is why?

 

[ReadySet]

Did I miss the discussion on this? It seems very specific to include.

“If you weren’t from the area, you wouldn’t know (the trails) were here,” German says, turning away from the trail. “It’s hard for me to imagine that someone I’ve grown up with, someone who grew up in the same place I’ve grown up in, could do something like that.”

Kelsi remembers seeing a dark SUV, its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance where she dropped off the girls. She didn’t pay attention to whether any people were around, something she regrets daily.

A new path

 

[Charlot123]

Sketches are more like a BOLO type thing, its another tool to help solve a crime, or identify a potential suspect.

In this case, we have video of "Someone" who may or may not be involved in the girls murder. but other than what hes possibly wearing on his body , his face is totally skewed.

The initial sketch and the secondary sketch look nothing alike , I think in this case, it hurts the investigation because, which one are we looking for ?

IMO they released, info WAY too slowly, they took too long to let info out there, they shouldve released that video as son as they had it, audio the same, they should reveal the manner of death as well that may spark someones memory as to what may have happpened

Small things can be kept out of the public light , but all we know is this

2 girls went into the woods, both were murdered, a video and audio recording of a man were on Libbys phone

Thats IT!

I will say this again, SOMEONE out there knows who did this they are just refusing to say anythig or theyre not putting 2 and 2 together because so little is known about the murders.

If they released lets say manner of death that may helpsomeone remember something "oh yeah I saw my neighbor with blood on his clothes but he said he hit a deer" kinda thing

I know you have to weed stuff out but the more you give the public to think about the more helpful it is

Not putting two and two together.

 

[Boxer]

In your professional opinion, why do you believe LE has released two sketches? Is it possible their original suspect was cleared in some way? Also, why would LE disregard (or not use) the original sketch where the description was given shortly after the crime took place? If they had their suspect within the first week, why did they wait several months to release the first sketch depicting an older POI/Suspect?

The release of two sketches (years apart), has caused such confusion because of the vast differences in appearance. IMO, this has caused many (including Libby's mother) to loose faith in LE's ability to solve the crime. There has to be a reason LE "changed directions"- the question is why?

MOO. ISP called in GBI to help and GBI resurfaced that 2/17/17 sketch from early days in the investigation.

What about a dark SUV with decals?
MOO
That SUV would have been found or been reported as a neighbor having one very quickly.

 

[sunshineray]

Why would putting the sketch and video still together on a poster suggest that LE had identified BG? I don't follow that logic at all. If LE had identified BG, they wouldn't have needed to release another sketch. The second sketch being paired with the video means that LE has a credible eyewitness and that LE believes that the person seen by the eyewitness was actually BG (perhaps based on the witnesses's description of the clothing).

I've come to the conclusion that the senario that works best in my mind is LE had two options early on, to believe two "witnesses" or a much larger group of "witnesses" description of who they saw. That LE discounted the earliest description in favor of the larger pool of people contributing to a description turned out to be a mistake.

LE cannot now say the first sketch released is bogus because they would then have to explain why to the public. They don't want to release that information and will only remark that the killer never thought they'd change "strategy", they had right information early on and surprising the killer with new sketch was " very very important"(per ISP Carter).

LE was mislead into believing something they now know to be false. Eyewitness? Alibi? Circumstances of "evidence"? All of the above? This is AJMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Did I miss the discussion on this? It seems very specific to include.

“If you weren’t from the area, you wouldn’t know (the trails) were here,” German says, turning away from the trail. “It’s hard for me to imagine that someone I’ve grown up with, someone who grew up in the same place I’ve grown up in, could do something like that.”

Kelsi remembers seeing a dark SUV, its rear windshield covered in decals, parked near the entrance where she dropped off the girls. She didn’t pay attention to whether any people were around, something she regrets daily.

A new path

I thought so too. I bet it has spooked a few people in Delphi.