Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[Charlot123]

You have to remember this may not even be a case of sexual homicide, though I think the overwhelming gut response is that it is , and I wouldn't be any different in that aspect .

Unless its released that they were sexually assaulted, all we know is that the 2 girls were killed, how, and why are left to the imagination.

If this was an abduction murder for sexual purposes (which it may be, and probably is) then the individual you are talking about above is a great example of the type of person usually responsible

Though he was ruled out as a suspect, for whatever reason, I can say with a very high level of confidence that though hes not responsible , the individual you are looking for would not be all that different than the man you speak of .


This is again all speculative because of what we don't know .

I don’t know the reason they were killed. It might be sexual, or purely “utilitarian”, for the lack of any usable term. If there were any sexual undertones, then, he is a sexual sadist. And I am 50/50 on it.

If the true reason was different (removing someone who knew too much, or whom he, for whatever reason, saw as a threat), then he is cold, devious, planning, but might be very different from any criminals mentioned here. And in this case, he is not mentally ill, merely suspicious, devoid of attachments and knows how to use people for his benefits. This person can never be caught because he is so “normal”. Deep inside, he might probably still hate the victims because in his eyes, they “deserved”. If he used anyone, or lives with someone who could guess, he manipulates these people into silence, and probably, uses logic (emotions are unreliable).
And it is here when he can use arguments that are very smart.


JMO. I am not making “psychological portraits” at all, merely trying to imagine different POIs, even historical figures, and thinking of how it would work. Type 1 could still be vulnerable and have weak links, some attachments, type 2, none, although he “needs” all of it, a GF, or family, or kids, to fit in.

ETA: type 1 was probably alone, type 2 could have used someone, maybe some type 1 loser.

 

[Charlot123]

Hey there, @Ozoner, @Charlot123 is a *polyglot* (and may very well be our own WS Delta Force or SEAL team member). Love that we have so many interesting, talented, insightful members here!

Not a polyglot, I forgot them, living here. Ten years ago, I read a book in French without a dictionary and was so proud of myself! (((

 

[Charlot123]

Hey there, @Ozoner, @Charlot123 is a *polyglot* (and may very well be our own WS Delta Force or SEAL team member). Love that we have so many interesting, talented, insightful members here!

Not a polyglot, I forgot them, living here. Ten years ago, I read a book in French without a dictionary and was so proud of myself! (((

 

[Charlot123]

I sometimes sit and consider that this killer really put a lot of planning into committing these murders and he is probably a very smart guy. Then I stop and think, if he was so smart then how did he let himself get caught on video and audio. Yeah, one day he is going to be sitting in a prison cell and his cell mate is going to say, "Yeah, you got caught on video...it happens to the smartest of us." To him I say, keep running you dumb coward, each day that passes is one day closer to your arrest.

I think because in Libby, the world could have lost a good match for him, a great analytical thinker, maybe one day she could become Attorney General of Indiana, or more. He had the time to prepare, she did not. Not her fault that he is not apprehended.

 

[Charlot123]

Hey there, @Ozoner, @Charlot123 is a *polyglot* (and may very well be our own WS Delta Force or SEAL team member). Love that we have so many interesting, talented, insightful members here!

And a nice group of friends

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Respectfully snipped for focus and response.
*THank you* Ozoner. LE has *not* said anything about glasses, nor do the sketches suggest this. Please, lets not confuse people. To do so unwittingly (although innocently), aids and abets the criminal(s).

Amateur opinion and speculation

No one said anything about the Delphi killer's wearing glasses; rather, at least one (maybe more) poster here gave a for example: i. e. -- id est = "that is", (as some might say in English, *as* they give an example, or ***examples*** in a given situation). Seems someone was alluding to the possibility that the killer *may* (<-- operative word) have **changed** his appearance, and, in making that suggestion, the WS poster gave a few *examples* of how an individual might alter their appearance. The WS poster was merely giving *examples*.

As far as I recall (and I could be wrong; I'm wrong every day of my life at least several times, so -- it's very possible ), people were simply *hypothesizing* about "ways that the Delphi killer *could have* changed/tweaked his appearance" (my own paraphrase).

--
As a side note, in well over three years since February 13, 2017, never *once* have I ever actually *thought* about the Delphi killer's **possibly** being a glasses/contacts wearer -- not until I saw @rosesfromangels' post a short time ago... So now, I'm wondering: *Does* the killer wear glasses IRL? *Did* the Delphi killer wear contacts the day he took the lives of Abby and Libby? (Of course, if LE actually had the *killer's* DNA, then...they would likely **already know** whether or not the Delphi killer needed corrective lenses as of Feb. 13, 2017...)

(If the killer *were* a glasses/contacts wearer, having that information would, I suppose, narrow the field of potential suspects, so...in that sense, perhaps this *is* an interesting hypothetical... Anything to narrow down the number of genuine, likely suspects is a good thing.)

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Thanks to Ozoner for getting me thinking about things in a new way.

One thing that came to mind is that the girls may have communicated with someone by CB. Sure, it's old-fashioned. But CBs are still used by truckers, I believe. And people in rural areas may still use them. I wonder if they had access to one at home or in a family member's or friend's vehicle.

You know, @CluelessWonder, that's a really good thought, since TONS of people can be listening in on CB, and...***nooo one*** else knows for sure *who* is listening, nor **how many** other people are listening in. Thanks for adding this possibility to the "mix" here. All it takes to solve this is one clue -- even a relatively simple one.

 

[rosesfromangels]

All great posts - I'm happy to see everyone leaning in to see if we can't shake lose a tidbit or detail that might help wrap this case up. The passion to bring this case to Justice is inspiring....just like the two children.

Let's not forget that one of them would have been "sweet sixteen" this year and gone to their junior prom; the following year graduation, then college. All of this taken from them, and the world lost two beautiful girls with so much promise.

But for the murderer, a loser, a nothing, all he can do is destroy. Because he has nothing to contribute to our world, and we can hardly wait to securely close the jail door to be rid of him.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[CluelessWonder]

Are most people in agreement that a gun was used to get the girls to follow orders?

 

[Falling Down]

I think they zig-zagged from the SE corner of the bridge to the CS so the distance was not a straight line. Plus the distance of the hill itself.

I drew the general path they took.

Straight-line the distance is approximately 650 feet.

By all means, if you have anything to add to the conversation...

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

A death certificate can be issued without the cause or manner of death listed. A death certificate does one thing: prove that a person is no longer living. The reason a person is no longer living (MOD/COD) can be listed as undetermined, pending, deferred, etc. It does not have to state a specific reason.

For example; my daughter's cause of death is listed as "deferred", and the manner of death is listed as "homicide". This may happen when the autopsy report is sealed, and/or an investigation is pending. These terms are a legally accepted cause or manner of death. The information can be amended at a later date by the medical examiner's office.

Thank you for the insight.

 

[Falling Down]

You bring up a point I really hadn't thought on.

"BG had to of had his spot preplanned, across the river, if there were dogs?"

3 retired FBI had mentioned in a podcast that they thought BG had a "lair" set up to bring his victims. RL's property abuts the trail system land. If BG picked this spot ahead of time, he must have known if RL had dogs that roamed property or were kept close to the house.

Anyone know if RL had any dogs? I've heard horses but they don't really spook much if they're by their shelter.

RL's land is more than a 1/4 mile from the main trail to the bridge.

 

[sunshineray]

RL's land is more than a 1/4 mile from the main trail to the bridge.

Do you know if RL had bigger dogs roaming his land? In VT our dogs used to have free run of our acres there. I'm just wondering if the killer knew the adjacent properties well enough to know he wouldn't run into anyone's dogs while trespassing.

 

[sunshineray]

I sometimes sit and consider that this killer really put a lot of planning into committing these murders and he is probably a very smart guy. Then I stop and think, if he was so smart then how did he let himself get caught on video and audio. Yeah, one day he is going to be sitting in a prison cell and his cell mate is going to say, "Yeah, you got caught on video...it happens to the smartest of us." To him I say, keep running you dumb coward, each day that passes is one day closer to your arrest.

He had to have known, unless he'd been living under a rock for years, that everyone has a cell phone and utilizes having a camera/video recorder with them at all times. He had to of noticed Libby taking Abby's picture or scenery shots that day if he was following them along the trail.

Do you think he was not attuned to how the data game all works? Maybe he thought he destroyed Libby's phone not knowing most phone's are set to back up data to the cloud automatically?

I still wonder why and how LE found her phone at all.

 

[rosesfromangels]

He had to have known, unless he'd been living under a rock for years, that everyone has a cell phone and utilizes having a camera/video recorder with them at all times. He had to of noticed Libby taking Abby's picture or scenery shots that day if he was following them along the trail.

Do you think he was not attuned to how the data game all works? Maybe he thought he destroyed Libby's phone not knowing most phone's are set to back up data to the cloud automatically?

I still wonder why and how LE found her phone at all.

I am always surprised at how many people (regardless of age) don't understand the how the data in their phone is stored in the cloud.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Falling Down]

Do you know if RL had bigger dogs roaming his land? In VT our dogs used to have free run of our acres there. I'm just wondering if the killer knew the adjacent properties well enough to know he wouldn't run into anyone's dogs while trespassing.

IMO, BG had at least some knowledge of the 'activity' on those private properties along the creek.

The one neighbor, the only one who would have had a clear line-of-sight from their house/property to where the girls and BG would have crossed the creek, was out-of-town that day and normally lives out-of-state during that time of year.

Any dogs he had up by his house, which is close to C.R. 300, would not be aware of activity down in the gorge. I do believe BG took this into consideration, making sure pets and horses would not be down in the gorge.

I understand people do take horses down there, periodically. Plus RL boards horses for people, anyway, so it stands to reason most of his 40 acres are used for horseback riding.

JMO

 

[JDough]

Sees the girls, follows, sees opportunity, they get creeped out, start recording/documenting, but not enough to dial 911, they didn't think this kind of danger, is this the time in photo.

RSBM
Some great ideas, @ogls!
I know we have discussed the Girls not dialing 911 early on in the thread(s). But I can't remember if it was speculated the cell reception was poor? Can anyone who visited the area remind me? Please?

IF they were able to call, perhaps he just reached them, immediately took control, and never gave the opportunity. (Especially if Libby attempted to hide her phone).

 

[JDough]

if he was so smart then how did he let himself get caught on video and audio. Keep running you dumb coward, each day that passes is one day closer to your arrest.

RSBM, cause I love the bolded part ^^
YESSSSS-keep running your mouth you spineless evil monster.

If the GH reenactment is accurate, BG was 60-70 feet away when the video was recorded (thus the reason the video cannot be improved any more than it is). While he may have witnessed the Girls using the phone for pictures earlier- do you think he was close enough to realize the camera was pointed at him? Do you think he knew he was recorded prior to the release of audio and video?

 

[BNA]

ETA: I don't *doubt* that some criminals do take a day/week/month to do a "personal makeover" (i. e., perhaps changing hair color/style, switching between contacts/glasses, etc.).
…….
Arrogant?

Unbelievably so.

Or, in this case, years. The guy I am thinking of has been building up muscle weight with daily, self-prepared cocktails of various appropriate supplements. He makes no secret of it. It is very public on his social media. He carries much more muscle bulk today than he would have had at the time of the murders.

My bet is that he is also "juicing" as part of his program...probably has been for a long time....which would likely cause periods of rage.

Nuff said.

 

[TedMac]

Are most people in agreement that a gun was used to get the girls to follow orders?

Yes, I think they were threatened with a weapon-either a gun or perhaps a knife as soon as he approached them. Otherwise, I don't think they would have followed his "Down the Hill" order.