Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[JDough]

DBM- response somehow landed within the original quote.

 

[JDough]

Pay attention, in that early article, there are two more things mentioned a) DNA; b) the possibility of two murderers. "Cops are not saying if they think the man in the picture is definitely the one recorded talking and add that more than one killer may be involved.”

RSBM

Hi @Charlot123- based on statements made at the 2019 PC (please see below), do you believe LE has gone back to the original information released? I'll admit, the back-and-forth information is certainly confusing at times. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this- I truly enjoy reading your posts, and have learned a great deal from you!

[...] "We’re releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully". [...]

"The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge". [...]

[...] "The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls". [...]

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

 

[Ozoner]

RSBM

Hi @Charlot123- based on statements made at the 2019 PC (please see below), do you believe LE has gone back to the original information released? I'll admit, the back-and-forth information is certainly confusing at times. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this- I truly enjoy reading your posts, and have learned a great deal from you!

[...] "We’re releasing additional portions of the audio recording from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully". [...]

"The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge". [...]

[...] "The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls". [...]

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

Yes, n.b.: "THE person responsible." They didn't say, "one of the people responsible." While they haven't ruled anything out, it's fairly clear that their main theory is that there was a single perp.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm a stupid girl, I have to change some things I believe about BG attire and profession. Then, I'm going to sit on it.

BG should normally wear a suit and tie or other uniform -jeans for "casual day". I will believe he ditched his clothing. People who know BG wouldn't recogninze the bridge guy in the photo because "BG doesn't wear those types of clothes".

BG looks too perfect too new, he fits right in. When I have a bit of cash in travel, I dress really down, crap jeans, jacked shirt-leave me be. I'm going to apply this to BG, he doesn't wear "causal" clothes.

Everything else stands, including Kenny Rodgers.

The locations I want, esp Michigan City and include Lafayette. I also want to say a job (prof/maintence-doesn't require fingerprints on file like w/kids) with a (green plant, because IDK if I can say the name?) Community College Tech school.

BG isn't afraid to be recognized on the trail, if he was a local teacher someone would notice him, he doesn't wear those casual clothes or have facial hair, DOES WEAR GLASSES.

These are very good thoughts! The idea that BG’s attire is not his everyday wear is rather genius. We all just assumed it was his usual clothes. Maybe not!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I am still catching up here, but I see alot of discussion on whether or not the killer was 'local' and thought it would be helpful to add this info to this thread.

IMO, you don't need to be 'local' to become very familiar with a town, even if you only visit once a year.

Delphi has an annual celebration every August called the 'Old Settlers Celebration'. It takes place over several days and over the years, it has become a carnival with Vendors, rides, musical concerts and town tours. This will be the 165th year that this celebration takes place.

Some of the tours involve a community member 'driving tourists on the county’s replica of a traincar used on inter-urban rail routes that ran through Delphi many decades ago.'

Old Settlers festival marks its 157th year.

I would be shocked if the trail system and the Monon High Bridge wasn't mentioned during one of these tours and I would love to have been on one of these tours prior to February 2017 to see what info was given.

From personal experience, my husband and I take our children to an annual event like the Delphi one that takes place many, many miles from our home in a town that we are extremely familiar with but only visit once a year.

We would never be considered 'locals' at that event. Some of the Vendors that work at the event are not local as well, but they go every single year to work at the event.

Just some food for thought.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I am still catching up here, but I see alot of discussion on whether or not the killer was 'local' and thought it would be helpful to add this info to this thread.

IMO, you don't need to be 'local' to become very familiar with a town, even if you only visit once a year.

Delphi has an annual celebration every August called the 'Old Settlers Celebration'. It takes place over several days and over the years, it has become a carnival with Vendors, rides, musical concerts and town tours. This will be the 165th year that this celebration takes place.

Some of the tours involve a community member 'driving tourists on the county’s replica of a traincar used on inter-urban rail routes that ran through Delphi many decades ago.'

Old Settlers festival marks its 157th year.

I would be shocked if the trail system and the Monon High Bridge wasn't mentioned during one of these tours and I would love to have been on one of these tours prior to February 2017 to see what info was given.

From personal experience, my husband and I take our children to an annual event like the Delphi one that takes place many, many miles from our home in a town that we are extremely familiar with but only visit once a year.

We would never be considered 'locals' at that event. Some of the Vendors that work at the event are not local as well, but they go every single year to work at the event.

Just some food for thought.

JMO

JMO, the definition of "local" for the purposes of this type of crime/criminal refers to the general region, not just the town in which it happened. The perp is probably within a 60 mile radius or so, JMO. For this particular spot, he was probably already familiar with the trail, the bridge and the area below and around it.

Sure, its possible that some crazed stranger from many states distant drove through the area, got off the interstate, wandered around until he found this remote small town and the hiking trail with the bridge, all on a day when the kids were out of school and the weather warm. But that's a very remote possibility.

If you mean some traveling carnival worker or food vendor was the killer, its possible, but those people aren't usually that familiar with a remote area like the hills and trails along the creek under the bridge in an area that's off limits to the public. It also wasn't the season for carnivals and festivals, it was the middle of February in the midwest. Sure, some carny worker or festival visitor might have seen the Delphi bridge the previous summer and thought it a great place to trap victims, but he would have needed to travel there from someplace nearby. It seems pretty unlikely he would travel, say, hundreds of miles from some big city to scope out the Delphi bridge and trap victims in the middle of winter.

JMO

 

[Ozoner]

These are very good thoughts! The idea that BG’s attire is not his everyday wear is rather genius. We all just assumed it was his usual clothes. Maybe not!

We've talked about the possibility that BG may have acquired inexpensive, throw-away clothing from a donation bin or resale shop and may have burned or discarded that clothing immediately after the crime. As we discussed several threads back, he may have purposefully acquired an over-sized jacket so that he could fit his kill kit inside of it.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

JMO, the definition of "local" for the purposes of this type of crime/criminal refers to the general region, not just the town in which it happened. The perp is probably within a 60 mile radius or so, JMO. For this particular spot, he was probably already familiar with the trail, the bridge and the area below and around it.

Sure, its possible that some crazed stranger from many states distant drove through the area, got off the interstate, wandered around until he found this remote small town and the hiking trail with the bridge, all on a day when the kids were out of school and the weather warm. But that's a very remote possibility.

If you mean some traveling carnival worker or food vendor was the killer, its possible, but those people aren't usually that familiar with a remote area like the hills and trails along the creek under the bridge in an area that's off limits to the public. It also wasn't the season for carnivals and festivals, it was the middle of February in the midwest. Sure, some carny worker or festival visitor might have seen the Delphi bridge the previous summer and thought it a great place to trap victims, but he would have needed to travel there from someplace nearby. It seems pretty unlikely he would travel, say, hundreds of miles from some big city to scope out the Delphi bridge and trap victims in the middle of winter.

JMO

Thank you for this perspective on my post. I hadn't mean to communicate that I thought a carnival worker committed this crime in his off season, although anything is possible.

My intention was to convey that it may only take an annual visit to familiarize ones self with all areas of a small town, either as a visitor, or as someone who works there.

In addition, I had bolded what I thought was important regarding the community tour on the traincar replica. I had wondered what info, if any, about the MHB was provided during those tours.

In a small town like that with one of the top-10 most endangered landmarks, I was speculating that the Monon High Bridge may have been mentioned during the tour.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We've talked about the possibility that BG may have acquired inexpensive, throw-away clothing from a donation bin or resale shop and may have burned or discarded that clothing immediately after the crime. As we discussed several threads back, he may have purposefully acquired an over-sized jacket so that he could fit his kill kit inside of it.

You are right!
I just thought it was interesting for the idea that BG may be so proper and have a very professional job and that folks would never imagine him dressed like this...ever. It seemed very contrary to a lot of the discussion that usually ends with “he’s dressed like every other guy in the Midwest”.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'd give 10 to 1 odds that LE has a suspect that was identified from the original bridge photo.

They need more info in order to arrest them.. not near enough evidence to prosecute... but that they need the public's help is ALSO identifying him there or elsewhere.

Just my opinion.

I’m not so sure the suspect has been identified by LE from the photo because if the release of sketch #1 and sketch #2 are considered, his age range is somewhere between 18 and 50 years old. That’s close to the age gap between a grandfather and a grandson - yet the same image.

However the photo does serve to eliminate suspects as long as only one perpetrator was involved.

 

[Ozoner]

You are right!
I just thought it was interesting for the idea that BG may be so proper and have a very professional job and that folks would never imagine him dressed like this...ever. It seemed very contrary to a lot of the discussion that usually ends with “he’s dressed like every other guy in the Midwest”.

Could be. For instance, he may normally appear in public wearing a surplice.

 

[Falling Down]

I recently watched a video from back when the Evansdale, Iowa case of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins first happened in July 2012. In it, they stated that out of all the child abductions that take place in the United States in a given year, only about 100 are committed by strangers. The rest are abducted by people they know.

I thought that statistic was interesting because what are the chances in a small town like Delphi, Indiana of two children being abducted at the same time?

Stranger abductions certainly are rare. Abducting two random juveniles at the same time is rare, it's happened maybe 15 times since 1974, according to records I've come across. Now out of those 30 juveniles abducted I don't know how many were killed.

The Delphi case is extremely rare, and the circumstances of it are unique, as in where and how it went down.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I hope law enforcement didn't devote one minute to checking other cases of two murdered teenagers, or waste one minute by evaluating this case as an example of two murdered teenagers.

Bridge Guy inherited what he found. There is no chance he could risk exposure by being picky toward his ideal victims. This is a semi-remote and low traveled trail. It is ideal for this type of crime because the perpetrator can be incredibly confident that if he finds a victim there won't be anyone else to follow in close proximity, either location or time.

But if you are stubborn toward type of victim or number of victims then all of your situational advantages are steadily thrown away, and your jeopardy soars. Very few trail visitors cross that bridge in the first place. On any given day, and especially a given window within that day, it might be 3% likely that you'll show up and there will be an exact party of two crossing that bridge. Narrow it to two females and the odds plummet further. Narrow it to two teenage girls and the odds basically do not register at all.

That is the type of thing that apparently never occurs to law enforcement. They put on tunnel vision and write it down as two murdered teenage girls. The press conferences emotionally rant about two teenage girls and why Delphi.

Killers can be picky if they are mobile and within dependably populated areas. That's why there are so many cases of young girls kidnapped and murdered after being snatched from sidewalks, etc. The victim was random. The way it would happen was long planned. Given enough patience there was guaranteed to be a convergence of the perpetrator prowling and a young victim in a vulnerable spot. Matter of time. Those cases can be evaluated and categorized based on type of victim. Delphi cannot. Or should not.

John Kelly had to correct focus. I mentioned it here a month or two ago. He had a recent Delphi video in which he correctly emphasized that of all the theories about Bridge Guy, the one absolute, the one thing we know for sure, is that he is a trail killer.

Absolutely. That is where the spotlight should be.

Some additional thoughts on my end.

I've mentioned time of year, which was important in this case. Clearer lines-of-sight for our perp and no real vegetation to block walking in those woods. I've seen YT videos of the woods, it's jungle-like in the warmer months and the area where the girls were found borders on impassible. I'd imagine there would be more trail users in the warmer months, too.

Which brings me to...

The one property owner on the south side of the creek, and the clear line-of-sight from the house to where the girls and BG crossed the creek. BG had to have known the property owner was not home, perhaps he knew they live in the Sun Belt during the cold months. Which makes me wonder what BG knows about the properties along there, and how much research he did before the murders.

I am convinced BG is a trail killer, and only a trail killer. It's his "wheelhouse", where he can feel more confident in a "kill" scenario. I picture him checking trails in Indiana and surrounding states for spots to put on a list of his. People in this region of the country need to be vigilant out on trails. I stay vigilant even on urban trails here in
Fort Wayne where there are "blind spots" and desolate stretches of trails.

Trail attackers and killers often times are not caught for years. There are other unsolved rural trail murders within a two hour drive of Delphi from the last 15 years or so, but they are rare in most parts of the U.S., anyway.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Snipped by me...BBM

"My unscientific generic profile of BG says that he gets off on the aftermath, attention, sensationalism, etc., of his deeds."

Do you think he actively became involved in the searching or he had to because it was expected of him?

This is a great question.

I often wonder what BG was 'counting on' regarding the aftermath.

I believe he paid close attention to the search efforts, either via the media out of Indianapolis and/or using scanners that scan LE and first responder channels. I believe he's close enough to Delphi and Deer Creek Twp. that he was able to keep tabs on the search efforts, or lives somewhere close enough to have Indy media outlets on his TV.

There was an Amber Alert that night out of Gary, so that took away some from the attention the search got from Indy channels. But I do know at least two channels out of Indy covered it that night on the 11PM news, and one covered it on their 10PM broadcast, in fact that was the clip which showed a reporter being shown the two SnapChat images Libby had uploaded, by a searcher who had them on his phone.

I think BG was watching all of this.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

I hope law enforcement didn't devote one minute to checking other cases of two murdered teenagers, or waste one minute by evaluating this case as an example of two murdered teenagers.

Bridge Guy inherited what he found. There is no chance he could risk exposure by being picky toward his ideal victims. This is a semi-remote and low traveled trail. It is ideal for this type of crime because the perpetrator can be incredibly confident that if he finds a victim there won't be anyone else to follow in close proximity, either location or time.

But if you are stubborn toward type of victim or number of victims then all of your situational advantages are steadily thrown away, and your jeopardy soars. Very few trail visitors cross that bridge in the first place. On any given day, and especially a given window within that day, it might be 3% likely that you'll show up and there will be an exact party of two crossing that bridge. Narrow it to two females and the odds plummet further. Narrow it to two teenage girls and the odds basically do not register at all.

That is the type of thing that apparently never occurs to law enforcement. They put on tunnel vision and write it down as two murdered teenage girls. The press conferences emotionally rant about two teenage girls and why Delphi.

Killers can be picky if they are mobile and within dependably populated areas. That's why there are so many cases of young girls kidnapped and murdered after being snatched from sidewalks, etc. The victim was random. The way it would happen was long planned. Given enough patience there was guaranteed to be a convergence of the perpetrator prowling and a young victim in a vulnerable spot. Matter of time. Those cases can be evaluated and categorized based on type of victim. Delphi cannot. Or should not.

John Kelly had to correct focus. I mentioned it here a month or two ago. He had a recent Delphi video in which he correctly emphasized that of all the theories about Bridge Guy, the one absolute, the one thing we know for sure, is that he is a trail killer.

Absolutely. That is where the spotlight should be.

If I were an investigator I would have checked out whether or not another case like the Evansdale, Iowa case of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook was related in some way to the Delphi, Indiana case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German even if it ended up being nothing and there was no way to tell conclusively if the cases are linked. There could be a unique piece of evidence or some other information that might either link both cases together or help solve the other case.

 

[TheVisual]

You are right!
I just thought it was interesting for the idea that BG may be so proper and have a very professional job and that folks would never imagine him dressed like this...ever. It seemed very contrary to a lot of the discussion that usually ends with “he’s dressed like every other guy in the Midwest”.

He wears this every day!

 

[TheVisual]

You are right!
I just thought it was interesting for the idea that BG may be so proper and have a very professional job and that folks would never imagine him dressed like this...ever. It seemed very contrary to a lot of the discussion that usually ends with “he’s dressed like every other guy in the Midwest”.

He wears this every day!

 

[MistyWaters]

If I were an investigator I would have checked out whether or not another case like the Evansdale, Iowa case of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook was related in some way to the Delphi, Indiana case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German even if it ended up being nothing and there was no way to tell conclusively if the cases are linked. There could be a unique piece of evidence or some other information that might either link both cases together or help solve the other case.

The possible connection was mentioned as coincidental very early on but I’ve noticed no further mention since then.

Evansdale, Indiana double-homicide links 'coincidental,' Indiana State Police say
“Indiana State Police say similarities between the double-slaying of two teenage girls three weeks ago and the unsolved 2012 murder of two Evansdale, Iowa, girls are "coincidental" at this point, but investigators are "not closed" to the idea of a connection...

......Sgt. John Perrine, a spokesman for Indiana State Police, said the similarities amount to the fact that in both cases two young girls were killed in a rural area, on a trail, on what happened to be the 13th day of the month.

"We don’t have any evidence that leads us to believe these two cases are connected," Perrine said. "A lot of people would hope we can solve both of them."...”

 

[zencompass]

I am still catching up here, but I see alot of discussion on whether or not the killer was 'local' and thought it would be helpful to add this info to this thread.

IMO, you don't need to be 'local' to become very familiar with a town, even if you only visit once a year.

Delphi has an annual celebration every August called the 'Old Settlers Celebration'. It takes place over several days and over the years, it has become a carnival with Vendors, rides, musical concerts and town tours. This will be the 165th year that this celebration takes place.

Some of the tours involve a community member 'driving tourists on the county’s replica of a traincar used on inter-urban rail routes that ran through Delphi many decades ago.'

Old Settlers festival marks its 157th year.

I would be shocked if the trail system and the Monon High Bridge wasn't mentioned during one of these tours and I would love to have been on one of these tours prior to February 2017 to see what info was given.

From personal experience, my husband and I take our children to an annual event like the Delphi one that takes place many, many miles from our home in a town that we are extremely familiar with but only visit once a year.

We would never be considered 'locals' at that event. Some of the Vendors that work at the event are not local as well, but they go every single year to work at the event.

Just some food for thought.

JMO

Dear @bradfordsleuth,

Thank you for this information about the annual "Old Settlers Celebration" held in Delphi.

There is always information to be found about an area, especially if you know what questions to ask.

Interesting about the tour on the "replica of the train car " which likely offered information about the High Monon Bridge and its history.

Newspaper articles in the year or two before 2017 asked for businesses to partner with to restore the bridge. There could have been an information booth for this as well. In addition, they were promoting their beautiful trails and the one around the Monon High Bridge is particularly beautiful.

Your post is helpful as it's another way to consider whether the perpetrator was "local" or not. As you say, "IMO, you don't need to be 'local' to become very familiar with a town, even if you only visit once a year."

This is great "food for thought". Someone familiar with the Monon Trail Bridge yet not a resident of Delphi.

 

[JDough]

Do you or anyone reading this follow this case on Facebook and Reddit? Did you see the disturbing Facebook post by J Kyle Keener about dead babies grave sites in the Logansport, Indiana cemetery and the blame he places on the mothers of those babies? Also posted is what looks like an older deceased female child posed under a sheer sheet. Keener was the photographer who took pictures at the Delphi Murder site, posted them online and then was forced to remove them by the newspaper he worked for. He was fired shortly after. The Facebook photos are disturbing to anyone who has lost a child. I don’t know if it is a cry for help or just a weird post by someone who considers themself an artist. I recognized his name from the Delphi case. The photos are discussed on Reddit also under r/LibbyandAbby

Unfortunately, information we may (or may not) read on Reddit or Facebook can't be discussed.

I can say that early on, the photos taken by the journalist you mentioned above were discussed in great detail (from the MSM article where he published the photos and story). The Gentleman is certainly an interesting character. It also leaves one to ponder why either the newspaper or LE themselves wanted the article (and all evidence of it), to be removed from the public eye?