Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[Maplesyrup]

I'm starting to think like you, advances in technology to clean up Libby's video may be the thing that gives someone(s) enough of a clear picture to identify BG enough to matter.

It's obvious that anyone very close to him, who may have recognized him from video or stop action shots, are not coming forward. One other possibility is someone like that has come forward but have been lost in the massive shuffle of tips.

As hard as this is to imagine, there are plenty of people who won't speak up because they don't want to get involved or fear retaliation. I grew up in eastern Ohio in a rural area in a county where most crimes go unsolved. I know people who absolutely would shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, I'm staying out of it." Too many people in those areas take care of their own, mind their own business and just "let live" those around them. They are not crime-minded, don't care about online groups who trouble-shoot crimes, and in fact are more interested in "muddin' [mudding] [which is driving their big pick up trucks or four wheelers through fields and spinning in circles, racing each other, etc]. They chew tobacco, spit it out and drink beer at bonfires. Again, I fully believe they would not make a peep if they suspected someone. I imagine there are similar areas in every state in this country [USA]. Personally I would jump at a large reward...but these people aren't like most of us. They do their thing, gossip about other people but will NOT talk to law enforcement [usually because their own record is shady and they don't want retaliation if they speak up and turn someone in].

 

[Maplesyrup]

I've had another thought. Perhaps LE HAS indeed received a good [anonymous] tip with a name and circumstances that indeed looks to be the suspect but the tipster chose to remain anonymous and LE needs more information from the tipster to make this stick. If they have a tipster with good knowledge, a name, etc...if they choose to remain anonymous [for whatever personal reason]...if LE needs their testimony on record or needs additional information and the tipster refuses to contact LE again...what is LE to do? Try to beg at news conferences hoping to play on the tipster's conscience and maybe they will call back? LE may indeed have a good idea who BG is but without critical information, cannot make a case stick and cannot risk arresting their suspect and messing the case up. All IMO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

As hard as this is to imagine, there are plenty of people who won't speak up because they don't want to get involved or fear retaliation. I grew up in eastern Ohio in a rural area in a county where most crimes go unsolved. I know people who absolutely would shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, I'm staying out of it." Too many people in those areas take care of their own, mind their own business and just "let live" those around them. They are not crime-minded, don't care about online groups who trouble-shoot crimes, and in fact are more interested in "muddin' [mudding] [which is driving their big pick up trucks or four wheelers through fields and spinning in circles, racing each other, etc]. They chew tobacco, spit it out and drink beer at bonfires. Again, I fully believe they would not make a peep if they suspected someone. I imagine there are similar areas in every state in this country [USA]. Personally I would jump at a large reward...but these people aren't like most of us. They do their thing, gossip about other people but will NOT talk to law enforcement [usually because their own record is shady and they don't want retaliation if they speak up and turn someone in].

I know there are alot of people who fit in to the category you describe. However, this does not appear to be the case with the good people of Delphi, IN. Police received so many tips I'm sure they are still sorting through them. The people of Delphi are deeply grieved and appear to be deeply investigated in justice for the two girls. They have had multiple fundraisers and dedications, and are a community that has stepped up and stood together. I think they are inspiring, and a great example to all.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Falling Down]

I don’t see head gear. I see sandy colored hair. Dang, we really need to get this image sharpened up.

some of you have been pondering plastic surgery to alter his appearance. I don’t see that as a big possibility as a change in facial hair and even hair dye and fake glasses could dramatically change his appearance.

amateur opinion and speculation

I think the video and screen shots LE released are the best we're gonna get in this case.

IMO they should have released the video early on.

The video is a section of the video Libby recorded on her phone, BG was probably less than 10% of the screen size of what was recorded, maybe less than 5% of the screen size. He was around 70 feet away from Libby. The phone's camera was not focused on him or maybe anything at all when the 1.5 seconds of BG was recorded.

There's only so much that can be squeezed out of those pixels to analyze.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think the video and screen shots LE released are the best we're gonna get in this case.

IMO they should have released the video early on.

The video is a section of the video Libby recorded on her phone, BG was probably less than 10% of the screen size of what was recorded, maybe less than 5% of the screen size. He was around 70 feet away from Libby. The phone's camera was not focused on him or maybe anything at all when the 1.5 seconds of BG was recorded.

There's only so much that can be squeezed out of those pixels to analyze.

JMO

Yes, today you are correct.
However, technology is leaping along and I'm hopeful that machine learning and AI will be able to produce a much crisper image over time. There is a lot that would go in to that....a lot....but it could be applied to so many other cases. In other words, a worthwhile undertaking.

Ive been reaching out to various acquaintances who have expertise in this type of image technology, and they've been educating me on the current process, and what it will take to move the technology forward.
There are a bushel full of technology hurdles, and just as many legal hurdles as well. None the less, I remain hopeful.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

Wouldn't you think then that LE knows who BG is, there is no doubt.

I think LE “thinks he knows” who BG is. This could explain all comments about the community being not at risk, and Leazenby’s phrase that the crimes were “specific to the individuals”, or however he said it.

Personally, I think if LE knows who it is, he must have the DNA, and it is decent DNA. But it is JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t see head gear. I see sandy colored hair. Dang, we really need to get this image sharpened up.

some of you have been pondering plastic surgery to alter his appearance. I don’t see that as a big possibility as a change in facial hair and even hair dye and fake glasses could dramatically change his appearance.

amateur opinion and speculation

I didn’t think plastic surgery to alter appearance. I thought it was rejuvenating, and done before the crimes. It is one of the explanations for “may look younger”.

 

[Ozoner]

I think LE “thinks he knows” who BG is. This could explain all comments about the community being not at risk, and Leazenby’s phrase that the crimes were “specific to the individuals”, or however he said it.

Personally, I think if LE knows who it is, he must have the DNA, and it is decent DNA. But it is JMO.

Even if LE has a POI now, which I don't believe for a minute, the comments to which you're referring were made early on, before LE had even the faintest grasp of the crime.
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Here in the US, LE always says that the public isn't in any danger. It's a meaningless platitude.

 

[Marzipan]

After seeing the photo of BG, made from a frame of the video Libby took of him as he approached them, I believe I know what headwear he wore. On the FBI website, the headwear is identified as a hoodie, but I believe this is incorrect.

I think the headwear is a "ranger's hat with neckshade" . I see them in farm stores, and farmers use them to protect their necks from sunburn. See attached photos.

View attachment 251892 View attachment 251893

That's not what I see, but since you perhaps like searching for wearables, what jacket do you think he is wearing? I am pretty sure somewhere in these 123 threads somebody did some product searches, but I can't remember what was found. Generic navy blue jacket, but if you compare it to some, you can rule out many. I golfed this weekend with my dad and he had a navy blue golf jacket. FootJoy (FG logo). He's had it a long time but this was the first time I started looking at it closely. It's similar, but not it. I wonder if LE has identified the brand/model of that jacket. (I also briefly wondered...is BG a golfer?)

 

[Charlot123]

That's not what I see, but since you perhaps like searching for wearables, what jacket do you think he is wearing? I am pretty sure somewhere in these 123 threads somebody did some product searches, but I can't remember what was found. Generic navy blue jacket, but if you compare it to some, you can rule out many. I golfed this weekend with my dad and he had a navy blue golf jacket. FootJoy (FG logo). He's had it a long time but this was the first time I started looking at it closely. It's similar, but not it. I wonder if LE has identified the brand/model of that jacket. (I also briefly wondered...is BG a golfer?)

There are probably so many yard sales and estate sales that someone could buy and sell it and none the wiser.

 

[Trebor5591]

That's not what I see, but since you perhaps like searching for wearables, what jacket do you think he is wearing? I am pretty sure somewhere in these 123 threads somebody did some product searches, but I can't remember what was found. Generic navy blue jacket, but if you compare it to some, you can rule out many. I golfed this weekend with my dad and he had a navy blue golf jacket. FootJoy (FG logo). He's had it a long time but this was the first time I started looking at it closely. It's similar, but not it. I wonder if LE has identified the brand/model of that jacket. (I also briefly wondered...is BG a golfer?)

Sorry, I don't have a clue about the jacket. I know about the hat, because I have one like it myself.

 

[pearl]

Even if LE has a POI now, which I don't believe for a minute, the comments to which you're referring were made early on, before LE had even the faintest grasp of the crime.
-Here in the US, LE always says that the public isn't in any danger. It's a meaningless platitude.

In the area where I live, LE when necessary advises us of the danger of an individual or group of people. They tell us "armed and dangerous", "do not approach", etc. There is also an automated phone call system used.

 

[Ozoner]

In the area where I live, LE when necessary advises us of the danger of an individual or group of people. They tell us "armed and dangerous", "do not approach", etc. There is also an automated phone call system used.

Not in a situation like this.
-
What you're talking about is if they have an active shooter or a known fugitive.
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Most murder victims are not random, so LE's default position is that there is no threat to the community. (Clear evidence of a serial predator, like in the DC sniper case, would be an exception.)
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I've been following true crime cases since the 80s; I've lost count of how many times I've heard LE say that there is "no danger to the community."
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At any rate, LE has no named POI three years out, so to suggest that their statements about "no danger to the community" mere days or weeks into the investigation somehow mean that LE knows who BG is doesn't reflect sound logic.

 

[MistyWaters]

Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi
“The bodies of Libby and Abby were found on the back end of a private piece of property less than a mile from where they were dropped off the day before.

“I can’t say there’s not a threat to the community,” Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley told RTV6 at the time. "We have not caught the person yet. Is the person still in the community? We don’t know.”..”

 

[sunshineray]

I was yet again thinking on the two sketches. I can understand different witnesses having different perspectives on age, face shape, eye set, lip size or ear position etc...so ISP Carter's statement that killer could be a combination of both sketches while maddening is still understandable at that level.

What really doesn't jive in the whole could be a combination talk is the fact that one sketch is clean shaven while the other has what looks like a very well looked after goatee. I don't think BG paused to shave or apply facial hair while on the trail system. Some might say it's possible he had a disguise on and stripped it down but I believe the NBG (clean shaven) witness was the first to see BG, so after that, while on the trails, he would of had to put the facial hair on. Can't believe I'm even saying that for it sounds so artificial and ridiculous.

That leaves me with a pretty firm stance of there's no way OBG and NBG sketches are of the same man. Clean shaven or sporting coiffed facial hair are two very easy, and no pun intended, in-your-face things for witnesses to notice at a glance. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

As hard as this is to imagine, there are plenty of people who won't speak up because they don't want to get involved or fear retaliation. I grew up in eastern Ohio in a rural area in a county where most crimes go unsolved. I know people who absolutely would shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, I'm staying out of it." Too many people in those areas take care of their own, mind their own business and just "let live" those around them. They are not crime-minded, don't care about online groups who trouble-shoot crimes, and in fact are more interested in "muddin' [mudding] [which is driving their big pick up trucks or four wheelers through fields and spinning in circles, racing each other, etc]. They chew tobacco, spit it out and drink beer at bonfires. Again, I fully believe they would not make a peep if they suspected someone. I imagine there are similar areas in every state in this country [USA]. Personally I would jump at a large reward...but these people aren't like most of us. They do their thing, gossip about other people but will NOT talk to law enforcement [usually because their own record is shady and they don't want retaliation if they speak up and turn someone in].

IMO and no disrespect to you at all...anyone who would have an "oh well" attitude about two local young girls being murdered in their town, I would just think that person is a horrible human being.

 

[rosesfromangels]

IMO and no disrespect to you at all...anyone who would have an "oh well" attitude about two local young girls being murdered in their town, I would just think that person is a horrible human being.

I doubt they do. If anything, I’d say fear but not apathy. Jmo.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

There is something at that crime scene...that crime scene that the Carroll County prosecutor said was “odd” and had a lot of evidence...that I believe will register with somebody and break this case. It might be some small little thing but somebody is going to recognize it and tie it to someone. Maybe whatever is “odd” about the crime scene is not so odd to somebody out there. After three years it makes no sense to withhold everything from the public while at the same time you’re begging for the public’s help.
LE has said repeatedly that they just need one more piece of the puzzle. I think there is someone out there with suspicions that also is looking for one last piece of the puzzle. Something about the crime that cements to them that their suspicions are correct and compels them to pick up the phone and call it in. This crime will never be solved unless LE releases more information and they are running out of time to do that. People will start to forget things. Just my thoughts.

 

[Yemelyan]

There is something at that crime scene...that crime scene that the Carroll County prosecutor said was “odd” and had a lot of evidence...that I believe will register with somebody and break this case. It might be some small little thing but somebody is going to recognize it and tie it to someone. Maybe whatever is “odd” about the crime scene is not so odd to somebody out there. After three years it makes no sense to withhold everything from the public while at the same time you’re begging for the public’s help.
LE has said repeatedly that they just need one more piece of the puzzle. I think there is someone out there with suspicions that also is looking for one last piece of the puzzle. Something about the crime that cements to them that their suspicions are correct and compels them to pick up the phone and call it in. This crime will never be solved unless LE releases more information and they are running out of time to do that. People will start to forget things. Just my thoughts.

I'd guess it all depends on what was "odd."

If it was an oddity like the Amy Mihaljevic case where her body was found with a very distinctive, possibly homemade curtain, then yes....that's the type of info someone out there may recognize and put together with info on someone they personally know.

If it was "odd" as in, the perpetrator defecated at the scene, then.....I'm not sure there's anybody who would be able to say "that sounds just like my friend X!"

If it was "odd" because of what the offender removed from the scene, which I think could be a possibility, then I think it's risky for LE to say what it was. Yes, someone who knows him might recognize it but BG might get rid of it too. I think this info would have more power, not for the public to know it, but to be used against a suspect in interrogation. "If we search your house right now are we going to find clothes that belonged to Abby or Libby?" Just MOO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'd guess it all depends on what was "odd."

If it was an oddity like the Amy Mihaljevic case where her body was found with a very distinctive, possibly homemade curtain, then yes....that's the type of info someone out there may recognize and put together with info on someone they personally know.

If it was "odd" as in, the perpetrator defecated at the scene, then.....I'm not sure there's anybody who would be able to say "that sounds just like my friend X!"

If it was "odd" because of what the offender removed from the scene, which I think could be a possibility, then I think it's risky for LE to say what it was. Yes, someone who knows him might recognize it but BG might get rid of it too. I think this info would have more power, not for the public to know it, but to be used against a suspect in interrogation. "If we search your house right now are we going to find clothes that belonged to Abby or Libby?" Just MOO.

I agree LE needs to keep some info to themselves.