Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[sunshineray]

Where is that information coming from?

The witness information has been discussed in GH videos and some podcasts, just in the general terms I've stated of locale and description. One young girl and the arguing couple have all been discussed, then the person who saw someone right near their home (I'm pretty sure GH did a whole episode on that in a video).

 

[sunshineray]

When the BG sketch was discussed in earlier times, some mentioned seeing earbuds in his ears, some, that he was self-dialoguing, some wondered if there was something sticking out of his mouth. (It is all seen on the video, not on the photo, very vaguely, and the validity of any observation about the video is questionable).
However: one wonders if there indeed were two participants in the murders, with different roles, one being somewhat of a scout, maybe, and if they were in communication. This could explain two BG, looking different, and seen at different times by different people. Strange story.

Yes Charlot I'm one who sees, what I'll categorize as, BG talking to himself or possibly singing. I've wondered if that behavior added to the fact that he was trailing them was why Abby was so nervous wanting to continue away from the bridge and why Libby trained her camera on BG.

 

[sunshineray]

This has been said before, but perhaps the NBG sketch is of someone who is either a son to or a person who can put pressure on real BG to confess. Sort of like, "If you don't confess, do you want this kid to have to take the fall for you?" Or, "If the person you know did it doesn't confess or you don't turn him in, do you want us to put the pressure on you?"
We had a drunk driver leave the scene of a death where I live years ago. She never would have come forward as the driver after it was discovered that the car belonged to the family except that the rumors were that it was her step-daughter. That step-daughter got really sick of it and made her confess or else she would have turned her in.

During an investigation LE can certainly put pressure on certain members of the public in many different ways to find out facts. I could see your senario happening. What gives me pause there is the language used by LE about the NBG sketch being a better representation of the face of the girl's killer. But then ANY supporting help another would give to taking these young lives makes them just as culpable as the one who murdered. Your take is very interesting.

 

[sunshineray]

hey everyone...i haven't posted here in so long but am reading everything!
i love ur ideas sunshineray...and here's what i think about this...remember when an LE said something about there being a 'twist'? what exactly is the twist and what do they know? i think MOO the twist is two people. in the beginning and for a long time i thought for sure one guy, because that is all we see in the video....but just because we cant see more of the video i shouldn't assume its just one guy. this case is driving me nuts :/

I'd forgotten about the "twist". Was that Sheriff Leazenby or was it one of the ISP that said that? I agree that there's really nothing definitive to latch onto and it's making me nuts at times also.

 

[Jealoushe]

I'd forgotten about the "twist". Was that Sheriff Leazenby or was it one of the ISP that said that? I agree that there's really nothing definitive to latch onto and it's making me nuts at times also.

my guess based on the podcast is the twist is the perp has done this before and they have seen the signature before.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'd forgotten about the "twist". Was that Sheriff Leazenby or was it one of the ISP that said that? I agree that there's really nothing definitive to latch onto and it's making me nuts at times also.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #23
In and around post #891 very early began discussion of what “the twist” implied including Leazenby’s actual words. Was it something unique or simply the fact Leazenby had never been involved in a double murder of two teens, one of the victims capturing images and audio of the killer?

Although it appears the video is no longer available, he was quoted as saying this -
“Sheriff Leazenby: “This ones ’got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30 year veteran have never seen.””

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I personally have wondered if he has NOT killed again, why not? Don't get me wrong...I pray he never does but if he is a SK, I can't imagine he would likely wait that long. I have considered that the girls were targeted. One reason that stands out to me would be to silence them because of something they knew or had recently become aware of. Could they have become aware that BG was molesting a friend? Had a friend confided in them? Was BG in position of authority over them [or even a position of authority over a large group of kids] and he made a move on one of them in the days before their murders and they thwarted him by rebuffing his advances? Did they tell him no... and get away from him? Was he threatening to hurt their parents if the girl spoke up and outed him? Kids don't understand what adults do. They believe the person will kill their family if the victim speaks up. I keep going back to Doug Carter at the press conference when he commented about what would people think of him [BG] when they found out who he was [not Doug's exact words but the basic theme of what he said]. That comment made me think they had a suspect in mind but nothing definitive that they could pin on him. I thought that was an odd comment to make considering some killers are truly on the fringe of society and people are not shocked that they would do such a thing because they act dangerous, look dangerous, look seedy, etc. His comment made me think that BG is a guy who is respected, perhaps well educated, perhaps in a position of authority in the community...someone that would shock people senseless once his identity is revealed. Just my thoughts and all IMO.

I have thought of those things too.
The SK vs local is just one of many contradictory aspects to this case to me. I think...he can’t be local because no one has recognized him, BUT he can’t be a SK because he hasn’t killed again three years out(and I believe we would know that).
The targeted theories are kinda the same way(unless you want to talk about a hired killing which I personally don’t believe). If they were targeted he would probably be local and known to the girls’ or someone in Delphi but no one claims to recognize him. The families have said they don’t recognize him either. None of these pieces fit together for me.
So anyone could reasonably argue that 1) the killer is not a SK, 2) he’s not local, 3) the killer did not target the girls. But you could also argue the opposite of each one of those things. Which we do here on WS, and have done for 3 years. I just hope we aren’t hashing over the same ole things for 3 more years. Praying for an arrest soon.

 

[sunshineray]

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #23
In and around post #891 very early began discussion of what “the twist” implied including Leazenby’s actual words. Was it something unique or simply the fact Leazenby had never been involved in a double murder of two teens, one of the victims capturing images and audio of the killer?

Although it appears the video is no longer available, he was quoted as saying this -
“Sheriff Leazenby: “This ones ’got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30 year veteran have never seen.””

Yes he wording could mean the "twist" is just the fact that the victim recorded audio and video of her killer. Seems odd that video of the Sheriff was taken down and makes me to think that Libby's video would not be the reason for that since LE released both to the public.

 

[Justice101]

Yes he wording could mean the "twist" is just the fact that the victim recorded audio and video of her killer. Seems odd that video of the Sheriff was taken down and makes me to think that Libby's video would not be the reason for that since LE released both to the public.

Did the "twist" comment COME BEFORE it was officially released that they had a photo or video?

 

[ReadySet]

Are there any other cases where a victim recorded and filmed their own murderer? Wouldn't that be a huge "twist?"

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #23
In and around post #891 very early began discussion of what “the twist” implied including Leazenby’s actual words. Was it something unique or simply the fact Leazenby had never been involved in a double murder of two teens, one of the victims capturing images and audio of the killer?

Although it appears the video is no longer available, he was quoted as saying this -
“Sheriff Leazenby: “This ones ’got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30 year veteran have never seen.””

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes he wording could mean the "twist" is just the fact that the victim recorded audio and video of her killer. Seems odd that video of the Sheriff was taken down and makes me to think that Libby's video would not be the reason for that since LE released both to the public.

There’s a lot of youtube videos of the early LE press conferences and interviews still to be found but it does take a bit of searching. IIRC when discussion of “the twist” first began it was based on the assumption an arrest was impending and information forthcoming would be quirky, surprising, shocking even.

But the dictionary definitions of “twist” is “a change in the way something happens” so in the context Leazenby stated it within his 30 years of policing, that seems to me synonymous to “different”, which the audio and video of the actual killer would’ve been. So while usage of the word was certainly attention-grabbing, I don’t think it was a clue to anything specific, as horrific of the unknown details of the murders may be. JMO

TWIST | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

[MistyWaters]

Did the "twist" comment COME BEFORE it was officially released that they had a photo or video?

Who is this Stroup guy? If he’s not a MSM reporter and as his telephone recorded interview via youtube video has been taken down, as Subshineray wrote that leads to other questions as well.

post #910
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #23

 

[sunshineray]

Did the "twist" comment COME BEFORE it was officially released that they had a photo or video?

I think it was after the release of the photo, not sure about the audio.

 

[Andreee]

I'd like to ask what others think. I've been reading and thinking about BG's photographic images and the witnesses who contributed to the OBG and NBG sketches.

Two witnesses (maybe more?) produced the originally released OBG sketch, one young girl and a man from the "arguing couple". The girl described to LE the photographically captured BG before LE released his picture publicly. The man after seeing that picture called in to say that's who he saw. Both saw BG down the Freedom Bridge way.

The NBG sketch was a witness who saw a younger man walking near their home...and in an area not near the Freedom Bridge.

Consider the young girl's description was the same as in the photo before it released to the pubic, BG's location when she saw him and then two years later the conflicting LE words on whether to regard or disregard OBG sketch. Now think about LE releasing NBG sketch that looks (and description was officially changed...ie height, weight and age) nothing like OBG sketch and NBG is seen by a witness in a totally different area.

It could be said these things could point to there being two people involved in these killings. The difference of the local he was seen at and then also of the physicality of the subject seen are so different, as the sketches reflect, to be the same person. They're overwhelmingly unlike eachother yet LE was unwilling to let the OBG go in favor of the NBG. Why? Because he was described before any photo was released? LE tried to disregard OBG, right after the April 2019 press conference, but then brought him back into the killer image mix later on.

What's everyone think? Maybe some LE really do think there are two killers but some don't? Is this maybe what the new strategy is about?

I used to think LE had identified OBG right before Christmas 2018, sent his DNA to Quantico to be tested and found out in January 2019 the man who very much favors the OBG sketch does not have the killer's DNA. Then LE changed direction that April on the witness's sketches. Now I wonder if all that is totally wrong and there are two killers to catch?

 

[Andreee]

I'm totally confused and it seems by reading comments here and on other sites that I am by far not the only one who is! I strongly feel that LE should come forth with more information and more evidence release, be it audio, video if any and just clarification re. the sketches and BG description. At this point, IMO they need to do that, if for no other reason than to CLARIFY! Several of the witnesses had seen BG with a scarf over lower part of his face I believe, so how was a full facial description given and by whom?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes Charlot I'm one who sees, what I'll categorize as, BG talking to himself or possibly singing. I've wondered if that behavior added to the fact that he was trailing them was why Abby was so nervous wanting to continue away from the bridge and why Libby trained her camera on BG.

I don't know who you have determined he was talking to himself or singing, but taking that at face value, he could have been responding to the "voices in his head" giving him "instructions". Suggesting of course, that he is mentally ill. HE could have been bipolar off his meds in a scenario like that.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[CCJD]

Several of the witnesses had seen BG with a scarf over lower part of his face I believe, so how was a full facial description given and by whom?

rs&bbm

I don't recall ever seeing that. Do you have a link?

 

[Andreee]

rs&bbm

DBM

 

[Marzipan]

I don't know who you have determined he was talking to himself or singing, but taking that at face value, he could have been responding to the "voices in his head" giving him "instructions". Suggesting of course, that he is mentally ill. HE could have been bipolar off his meds in a scenario like that.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Or, on some meds that he wasn’t used to.

 

[Andreee]

Or, on some meds that he wasn’t used to.

If that is the case, I would hope that this possibility of the medical angle has been investigated fully by LE.