Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[I wonder]

You know why many think he is from the military? Army teaches people to be physically organized, to rapidly gather their stuff. Maybe what we view as mental IQ is his good physical organization.

I have a close ex military relative (UK) and he had the ability to react very quickly and effectively to whatever difficulties he faced, but he also didn't go into any situation unprepared. He also wouldn't have taken on more than he knew he could control, unless it was an emergency.

This would suggest BG planned for virtually every scenario. I don't believe many women went to the trail alone, so he was likely to face at least two or three women. He needed to know he could control everyone, which brings us back to the possibility he had a gun.

He then needed to move them down a steep bank and a fair distance. I believe he pre-prepared an area for either the kill, the bodies or both. He needed them to move as quickly and quietly as possible and he must have also been anxious as to whether other people were near or even at these prepared spots. He was under enormous pressure.

I'm not sure every single ex-military person would be able to cope with this. If he is ex-military, it suggests he was in for a fair time and he was specifically trained and skilled at being out in the field and responsible for himself and I suspect others.

The time period he had seems to have been tight, particularly if the girls did fight him, fell over etc. If he's ex-military, he'd have coped with that. But, would his control over himself remain when he's got the girls where he wants them?

We don't know if he did everything he wanted to, or if he ran out of time. How much of the elation (which I'm assuming he felt) was dissipated by the time constraints? He knew he wasn't safe until he was safely away. I think this is important as to whether he will kill again. His mission to hunt/kill without being caught was successful, but was the actual hurt/kill bit a success? Perhaps one or both girls were a specific target, so he doesn't need or want to do this again.It's quite possible he's got this out his system.

Alternatively he messed up, he didn't control the situation, he had very little time and he was seen, filmed and a tape recording of his voice was made. Plus, potentially the police/FBI have some form of DNA. He screwed up like an amateur. Maybe that's why he's ex-military. He was great at the planning and a failure at the engagement. He's a loser. Or maybe the nearest he's come to war is being in a queue to buy toilet roll during the last few months and camping in his parent's garden as a kid.

 

[stattlich1]

His victim or victims would fall right into the trap he'd imagined in his mind.

He saw them, and an hour or a little over an hour later they lay deceased or close to it in those woods.

JMO

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and what others have recently posted. Seriously not trying to be critical, just trying to further understand the reasoning.

BG is familiar with the bridge and it's surroundings?

BG had a plan to kill, but his potential victim would be random, he may go for two if the opportunity presented itself.

BG acted alone? He had no prior contact with the girls? He didn't know them?

Do you think he had been lying in wait, all geared up, at that bridge previously, maybe on various days, awaiting the opportunity?

As though he knew eventually someone would walk down that path, cross that bridge, and fall in to the trap? At a time nobody else would be around?

Or did this all come together for him on this day alone?

And then, on that day, Abby and Libby randomly walk that path, and it is by a total stroke of bad luck that they walk right in to his trap? All the pieces line up, and an hour or so later his deed is done?

The fact that school was out that day has nothing to do with it?

I'm posing the questions in sincerity.

 

[sunshineray]

That question will be answered when you download those files. And that answer will be a resounding yes, if it is who I think it is. Maybe not two, but any woman in general he would have targeted. We may not know the motive yet, but this person is brazen for a reason. He feels he won't be caught, which is why he did this in broad daylight.

I still wonder if it's killers, plural. And from what the Sheriff said, some LE may still be thinking the same.

 

[sunshineray]

Some, yes. Not adult Libby.

I'm sorry, I'm not understanding this Charlot.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

And then the majority of posters are decent people who are trying to make sense of the evil things that happen. I think it actually makes them feel better to deny the randomness. If the girls were talking to someone on social media who catfished them, or if it was a coach in a disguise, or if they were silenced for discovering a secret on the dark web, then this happened to them FOR A REASON. If it wasn't random, I can feel better because it can't happen to me or my loved ones.

I would like to know, there was a certain reason, at least known to the killer, and it wasn't a pure thrill-kill and wasting his intelligence and his countless possibilities in life on this seemingly senseless, tragic, evil double-murder.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I'm a bit confused by your post, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or not. I'd like to think that I'm a decent person, but I also tend to come up with some fairly off the wall scenarios at times. I don't do it to entertain myself, and I almost never suspect catfishing. If coming up with possible scenarios to help me figure out the type of person who might commit a specific crime is annoying or distracting to others, I can just keep them to myself. In case anyone really cares what I think (even I don't always...), I can give a few of the characteristics I've come up with from my "stories".

I believe:
1. He is self-confident, at least in his ability to commit the crime.
2. He is enough of a loner to be able to avoid people for several days without attracting attention or curiosity.
3. He is social enough to not be seen as a total oddball by his neighbors or family.
4. He is fairly well organized.
5. He is able to adapt his plan if circumstances require it.
6. He has spent much time at and/or near the bridge.
7. He knows, and may be related to, someone in the immediate area.
8. Almost everybody who knows him will be shocked if/when he is identified.
9. He may not have known he was going to kill someone that day, but he was prepared to do it if circumstances were right.
10. He may have chosen the woman who was on the bridge around 3 (I don't remember her name) if the girls hadn't been there.
Several other things, but I think I've wasted enough of people's time when I have nothing to back up my beliefs.
MOO

Great post! I want to add that I think he will be found to have been living a double life. One POI I have is fascinated by twins and features them mixed in with his FB photos. I don’t know if that means anything or not but I think the killer has a split personality and that when the evil side comes out even his eye color changes to darker than usual and he becomes physically stronger from the excitement and Adrenalin prior to the kill. I think he is a man over 50, has all the qualities you mentioned above, buys his clothes at Salvation Army Stores that’s why they look ill fitted in the BG photo on the bridge.

 

[303gmf]

Snipped and BBM
In my gut, I still think these two girls were targeted for some reason. I just can't wrap my head around this being a drifting murderer just passing through. Or even a person familiar with the area, but just seeking to murder someone, anyone.

In the same interview that the Sheriff mentions about knowing BG's voice he also said when asked about why he said there was no danger to the public, he "...had a feeling then and still does now that this incident was isolated to the victims..." and there was "...no ongoing threat to public".

Kind of sounds like what you're saying doesn't it. How the chief LE officer in the county can say that is a mystery to me. I get not wanting to have panic in the community and so on BUT telling that community they need not worry about the remaining women folk being in danger after two young girls were brutally murdered and that killer is at large!?

That and calling the professional search off overnight, I will never understand.

Infrequent checking in this thread and not from the beginning but so agree with all of your post !
Calling off the search so early makes absolutely no sense to me as well but prepare for rebuttal as last time I stated such as MOO, met with defense of, odd!

 

[St. Anthony2017]

No, not disciplined.

Physically organized.

Like...the word has escaped me - landmine specialist? Where fast, precise movements are important.

But there are many other professions where promptness and precision play the role.

A surgeon comes to mind. And while my grandpa was a surgeon and a smart man, my once close friend barely got Cs at high school and yet made an amazing surgeon.

One could think of many other specialties where physical organization is important.

Or maybe BG is naturally gifted with hands, "a man in the house", can fix anything without a problem.

Horrible to write it, but he probably was like it. And he could be a military man, or he could be naturally like this.

No, not disciplined.

Physically organized.

Like...the word has escaped me - landmine specialist? Where fast, precise movements are important.

But there are many other professions where promptness and precision play the role.

A surgeon comes to mind. And while my grandpa was a surgeon and a smart man, my once close friend barely got Cs at high school and yet made an amazing surgeon.

One could think of many other specialties where physical organization is important.

Or maybe BG is naturally gifted with hands, "a man in the house", can fix anything without a problem.

Horrible to write it, but he probably was like it. And he could be a military man, or he could be naturally like this.

A nature photographer or any media reporter photographer would have to be quick to get the critical shot or photo too.

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm a bit confused by your post, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be offended or not. I'd like to think that I'm a decent person, but I also tend to come up with some fairly off the wall scenarios at times. I don't do it to entertain myself, and I almost never suspect catfishing. If coming up with possible scenarios to help me figure out the type of person who might commit a specific crime is annoying or distracting to others, I can just keep them to myself. In case anyone really cares what I think (even I don't always...), I can give a few of the characteristics I've come up with from my "stories".

I believe:
1. He is self-confident, at least in his ability to commit the crime.
2. He is enough of a loner to be able to avoid people for several days without attracting attention or curiosity.
3. He is social enough to not be seen as a total oddball by his neighbors or family.
4. He is fairly well organized.
5. He is able to adapt his plan if circumstances require it.
6. He has spent much time at and/or near the bridge.
7. He knows, and may be related to, someone in the immediate area.
8. Almost everybody who knows him will be shocked if/when he is identified.
9. He may not have known he was going to kill someone that day, but he was prepared to do it if circumstances were right.
10. He may have chosen the woman who was on the bridge around 3 (I don't remember her name) if the girls hadn't been there.
Several other things, but I think I've wasted enough of people's time when I have nothing to back up my beliefs.
MOO

My intention wasn't to offend anyone. But if you saw yourself in what I wrote about decent people....I was trying to say that it's normal to try to "normalize" these acts of extreme evil. You may be one of the people who are thinking, if I can figure out the "why Abby, why Libby" then I can protect myself/my loved ones from this type of horrible scenario.

Let's say they were killed because they investigated and were about to expose a sex ring in Carroll County. To me this is absolutely preposterous but to some, it's a "better" answer than the alternative, which is that there is a really evil person out there who killed only to appease his own desires and used two other basically randomly chosen humans in the most depraved of ways.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I would like to know, there was a certain reason, at least known to the killer, and it wasn't a pure thrill-kill and wasting his intelligence and his countless possibilities in life on this seemingly senseless, tragic, evil double-murder.

I think his anger and hatred of little girls or females in general is apparent. Also I think he thinks he is special by targeting 2 victims at one time. Maybe that is his signature and applies to the Iowa girls murders also. I think he is a SK and will kill again if not caught soon. These cases show that you are not always safe having a friend with you especially if you are a young female.

 

[Yemelyan]

I would like to know, there was a certain reason, at least known to the killer, and it wasn't a pure thrill-kill and wasting his intelligence and his countless possibilities in life on this seemingly senseless, tragic, evil double-murder.

So what do you think when you read about, say The Golden State Killer? Seems like he defines what you wrote about wasting his possibilities in life for the most senseless reasons. IMO he is not unique among these types of offenders. They are all selfish and evil and thinking only of their own thrills.

 

[Angleterre]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and what others have recently posted. Seriously not trying to be critical, just trying to further understand the reasoning.

BG is familiar with the bridge and it's surroundings?

BG had a plan to kill, but his potential victim would be random, he may go for two if the opportunity presented itself.

BG acted alone? He had no prior contact with the girls? He didn't know them?

Do you think he had been lying in wait, all geared up, at that bridge previously, maybe on various days, awaiting the opportunity?

As though he knew eventually someone would walk down that path, cross that bridge, and fall in to the trap? At a time nobody else would be around?

Or did this all come together for him on this day alone?

And then, on that day, Abby and Libby randomly walk that path, and it is by a total stroke of bad luck that they walk right in to his trap? All the pieces line up, and an hour or so later his deed is done?

The fact that school was out that day has nothing to do with it?

I'm posing the questions in sincerity.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that LE said it was a targeted attack-
Yes?

 

[Angleterre]

Infrequent checking in this thread and not from the beginning but so agree with all of your post !
Calling off the search so early makes absolutely no sense to me as well but prepare for rebuttal as last time I stated such as MOO, met with defense of, odd!

I think that LE has an idea of who is responsible but they still don’t have all the proof/evidence required to put it before the court beyond all reasonable doubt...JMOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

That question will be answered when you download those files. And that answer will be a resounding yes, if it is who I think it is. Maybe not two, but any woman in general he would have targeted. We may not know the motive yet, but this person is brazen for a reason. He feels he won't be caught, which is why he did this in broad daylight.

“That question will be answered when you download those files.”

What is this referring to? What files are you talking about? Downloadable by us? Or anybody? Or only by Carter?

 

[K.jill]

I think I have a better lead than almost anyone ever had on this case. I've sent it directly to Superintendent Carter the past few days. And to the tip line. I am genuinely not sure how to express who I think this individual may be, and suffice it to say, if my investigative work is correct, Carter is spot-on when he and others in LE say it will shock the community. If I laid down my entire case here, you would all likely be stunned. When they find this person, do not be shocked if he resembles the first sketch. The second sketch is to mess with his mind, and is very likely a younger version of him. I know that sounds insane, but this site does not allow for side-by-sides. Trust me when I say, my theory is NOT based on side by sides, but tons of circumstantial evidence that blew my mind, and involved a currently unfolding scandal in Carroll County. The police and FBI were trying to let the killer know they know who he is, but they cannot get that one smoking gun piece of evidence to prove it still. Ask yourself, if that person is right under their noses, why would they not be able to apprehend that person? Answer that question, which I believe I have, and that will be step one toward understanding why no one has come forward yet.

I have been studying this unfolding scandal and think it could be somehow connected to this case. It would certainly shock people.
But the question you have answered about why the person has not been apprehended if LE knows who he is eludes me.
I wonder if he is being questioned and phone records and alibi examined. If so, we may not know for a long time if ever. Darn it.

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, and what others have recently posted. Seriously not trying to be critical, just trying to further understand the reasoning.

BG is familiar with the bridge and it's surroundings?

BG had a plan to kill, but his potential victim would be random, he may go for two if the opportunity presented itself.

BG acted alone? He had no prior contact with the girls? He didn't know them?

Do you think he had been lying in wait, all geared up, at that bridge previously, maybe on various days, awaiting the opportunity?

As though he knew eventually someone would walk down that path, cross that bridge, and fall in to the trap? At a time nobody else would be around?

Or did this all come together for him on this day alone?

And then, on that day, Abby and Libby randomly walk that path, and it is by a total stroke of bad luck that they walk right in to his trap? All the pieces line up, and an hour or so later his deed is done?

The fact that school was out that day has nothing to do with it?

I'm posing the questions in sincerity.

Essentially, my answers to all of your questions, are, IMO, yes. The first question about whether he was familiar with the bridge I'm on the fence about. I think it's possible he knew it well, or I also think it's possible he had spent a large part of that day strolling around figuring out the layout.

I think that very early statements from LE (I'm thinking of the one from ISP spokesman Dave Bursten where he said anything is possible but he felt it's unlikely that the killer encountered the girls by chance...he later walked this back in a statement to the producers of the DTH podcast) that imply the girls were meeting someone by plan or that the killer knew they would be there, merely reflect the fact that the investigation was in its infancy. Murders like this one were a novel situation for the local investigators involved and I really think they didn't know exactly what to make of it in the beginning.

To lay out the reasons I'm convinced that BG was a stranger to Abby and Libby, I'm actually going to make a separate post, @stattlich1 . Otherwise it will just be a wall of text. Then even if you don't agree with my conclusions you'll at least see where I am coming from.

 

[Charlot123]

I think I have a better lead than almost anyone ever had on this case. I've sent it directly to Superintendent Carter the past few days. And to the tip line. I am genuinely not sure how to express who I think this individual may be, and suffice it to say, if my investigative work is correct, Carter is spot-on when he and others in LE say it will shock the community. If I laid down my entire case here, you would all likely be stunned. When they find this person, do not be shocked if he resembles the first sketch. The second sketch is to mess with his mind, and is very likely a younger version of him. I know that sounds insane, but this site does not allow for side-by-sides. Trust me when I say, my theory is NOT based on side by sides, but tons of circumstantial evidence that blew my mind, and involved a currently unfolding scandal in Carroll County. The police and FBI were trying to let the killer know they know who he is, but they cannot get that one smoking gun piece of evidence to prove it still. Ask yourself, if that person is right under their noses, why would they not be able to apprehend that person? Answer that question, which I believe I have, and that will be step one toward understanding why no one has come forward yet.

FEAR.

The locals and the LE.

They hate him but can't touch him.
I hope if/when the situation changes, he won't wait for the arrest.

 

[K.jill]

Oops

 

[K.jill]

“That question will be answered when you download those files.”

What is this referring to? What files are you talking about? Downloadable by us? Or anybody? Or only by Carter?

I think the poster was referring to files that are downloadable by anyone. If you check out a website mentioned in the article of the judge Stepping down you will see the downloads.

 

[Charlot123]

I have a close ex military relative (UK) and he had the ability to react very quickly and effectively to whatever difficulties he faced, but he also didn't go into any situation unprepared. He also wouldn't have taken on more than he knew he could control, unless it was an emergency.

This would suggest BG planned for virtually every scenario. I don't believe many women went to the trail alone, so he was likely to face at least two or three women. He needed to know he could control everyone, which brings us back to the possibility he had a gun.

He then needed to move them down a steep bank and a fair distance. I believe he pre-prepared an area for either the kill, the bodies or both. He needed them to move as quickly and quietly as possible and he must have also been anxious as to whether other people were near or even at these prepared spots. He was under enormous pressure.

I'm not sure every single ex-military person would be able to cope with this. If he is ex-military, it suggests he was in for a fair time and he was specifically trained and skilled at being out in the field and responsible for himself and I suspect others.

The time period he had seems to have been tight, particularly if the girls did fight him, fell over etc. If he's ex-military, he'd have coped with that. But, would his control over himself remain when he's got the girls where he wants them?

We don't know if he did everything he wanted to, or if he ran out of time. How much of the elation (which I'm assuming he felt) was dissipated by the time constraints? He knew he wasn't safe until he was safely away. I think this is important as to whether he will kill again. His mission to hunt/kill without being caught was successful, but was the actual hurt/kill bit a success? Perhaps one or both girls were a specific target, so he doesn't need or want to do this again.It's quite possible he's got this out his system.

Alternatively he messed up, he didn't control the situation, he had very little time and he was seen, filmed and a tape recording of his voice was made. Plus, potentially the police/FBI have some form of DNA. He screwed up like an amateur. Maybe that's why he's ex-military. He was great at the planning and a failure at the engagement. He's a loser. Or maybe the nearest he's come to war is being in a queue to buy toilet roll during the last few months and camping in his parent's garden as a kid.

No, if an ex-military, he must have been involved in some operations related to people. Execution and planning. It worked.

How dis it affect him? In the Soviet Union, after WWII, few men came home alive. My grandpa did. He never spoke about the war, except for comparing military qualities of different Axis member groups. But about daily war? Not a word. My grandma told me how he got his awards.

In fact, this was the way to sort out real military men from intelligence or others who did not fight. People who would be boastful, likely, never sniffed the real war, they used to say.

But at the same time, it tells me all military men came back from the war with major PTSD. And they knew human life did not cost much. Neither the soldiers nor the civilians.

All of them were ex-military were exceptionally good to their families and kids.

But maybe today, with the Inet, ex-military who came from combat, either medicate their PTSD with drugs, or in some minuscule percent of cases, it turns into ugly situations like this?

Just a thought.