Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[Charlot123]

bbm
Do you think, he has female siblings or is, who he is, because he has not?

It just hit me. I was replaying one possible scenario in which the killer has a sister, or a daughter, who physically resembles one of the girls. Not to a T, maybe, she is more striking, but of the same type. I don’t imply anything inappropriate in the family, but simply, he is attracted to this type. In this case, the tone of her voice might matter, too. It brings me back to the girls’ videos posted online.

 

[stattlich1]

It's been some time since I came in this thread, but I often think of Abby and Libby. I come in, read up on the current discussion, and normally move along

It just baffles me to no end that this case has not been solved. I bounce back and forth. Local or not? One or two perps?

If this killer, or killers, were local, I can't imagine someone not knowing who it is, unless of course, that someone is protecting him/them.

Then there's the disguise angle. BG disguising himself. Do y'all mean you think BG may have had on a wig?

ALL the things said by LE. No need to reiterate it here. It seems to me they think BG is local, or was local, or visited Delphi regular, but NOBODY ever recognized the man in the video. That in and of itself is near unbelievable to me.

I often thought LE knows the perp(s), but don't have the evidence to convict. But how could that be? How could they know who it is?

Then there's the staging I see discussed. I can't wrap my head around what that may be. LE comments regarding the scene. It's just mind boggling to me.

And then there's this. Cold case. Nobody wants to call it that, yet here we are, years later, no answers.

In my gut, I still think these two girls were targeted for some reason. I just can't wrap my head around this being a drifting murderer just passing through. Or even a person familiar with the area, but just seeking to murder someone, anyone.

Motive? Targeted would mean motive, yes?

Anyway, why'd she snap that bridge photo anyway? Scared? Suspicious? I think so. I think for some reason, her spidey senses were up. But why?

I hate the fact this case has not been solved.

Sorry for the rant.

Over and out

 

[Dnp2be]

Idk. Im in CA and i refer to groups as "guys" all the time, so ive never placed any importance on his use of that phrase.

Same here in NE. In fact, I call my daughter and her friends “guys” all the time. Same with boys or girls, just equates to a group.

 

[Dnp2be]

Just a few things from several different posts I’ve read.

1. I think a fresh set of eyes would be helpful In this case as well. I do agree the perp may have already been r/o mistakenly.

2. When I first viewed BG from the cell video footage I immediately thought he had a disguise on. Someone posted an amazon mask that could be a possibility. My initial thought was something similar to panty hose over his face, not something that would immediately stand out as a disguise but one that would serve that purpose upon closer inspection.

this to me makes sense with the 2 vastly different sketches. It also makes sense to me why she decided to film him, he would appear weird/creepy looking the closer he got with something like that over his face

3. I believe LE’s words regarding the shock and surprise of the perps identify once everyone finds out was done to illicit some sort of feeling out of whoever they believe did this. More of a psychological move on LE’s part. Which to me makes sense if the perp is actually younger or has some mommy type issues or female respect issues. However this could very well be a teacher or coach in the surrounding communities.

4. I’m torn on the question regarding if this was randomly done or if the girls were sought out specifically. I tend to believe it was not random. One thing I believe for sure is that he went there that day intending to find a victim. I do not think it was a spur of the moment due to Opportunity occurrence.

5. I think 1 or both of the girls may have realized they knew or recognized BG after seeing him close up with or without the disguise.

Lastly, I have a question of my own. I believe I read somewhere on here or maybe heard it on the podcast down the hill or shoot could have even been an episode on ID...has it been said that some believe BG is a relative or family member of 1 of the girls? I do know a lot of cases like these are done by someone the victim knows but I really don’t feel that BG was anyone that close to either of them. I say that because of their decision to film him. I believe it would be a completely different reaction had they really known or recognized him to a greater extent. But I did want clarification on that. Thank you

 

[Yemelyan]

Just a few things from several different posts I’ve read.

1. I think a fresh set of eyes would be helpful In this case as well. I do agree the perp may have already been r/o mistakenly.

2. When I first viewed BG from the cell video footage I immediately thought he had a disguise on. Someone posted an amazon mask that could be a possibility. My initial thought was something similar to panty hose over his face, not something that would immediately stand out as a disguise but one that would serve that purpose upon closer inspection.

this to me makes sense with the 2 vastly different sketches. It also makes sense to me why she decided to film him, he would appear weird/creepy looking the closer he got with something like that over his face

3. I believe LE’s words regarding the shock and surprise of the perps identify once everyone finds out was done to illicit some sort of feeling out of whoever they believe did this. More of a psychological move on LE’s part. Which to me makes sense if the perp is actually younger or has some mommy type issues or female respect issues. However this could very well be a teacher or coach in the surrounding communities.

4. I’m torn on the question regarding if this was randomly done or if the girls were sought out specifically. I tend to believe it was not random. One thing I believe for sure is that he went there that day intending to find a victim. I do not think it was a spur of the moment due to Opportunity occurrence.

5. I think 1 or both of the girls may have realized they knew or recognized BG after seeing him close up with or without the disguise.

Lastly, I have a question of my own. I believe I read somewhere on here or maybe heard it on the podcast down the hill or shoot could have even been an episode on ID...has it been said that some believe BG is a relative or family member of 1 of the girls? I do know a lot of cases like these are done by someone the victim knows but I really don’t feel that BG was anyone that close to either of them. I say that because of their decision to film him. I believe it would be a completely different reaction had they really known or recognized him to a greater extent. But I did want clarification on that. Thank you

To your last question, on the podcast Down the Hill, in a discussion about the sheer number of tips, it was mentioned by a female relative that even her husband was tipped. Though he doesn't resemble the video of BG at all (I believe she said he weighed in around 140 pounds), they both sat down with detectives and were interviewed as to their whereabouts, etc.

The point of the podcast mentioning this was not that anyone in LE seriously thinks that a relative is responsible. Just that armchair detectives everywhere are calling in tips on any name that can be found. Sheriff Tobe Leazenby and Sgt.Kim Riley also say their names have been tipped multiple times.

 

[Maplesyrup]

Just a few things from several different posts I’ve read.

1. I think a fresh set of eyes would be helpful In this case as well. I do agree the perp may have already been r/o mistakenly.

2. When I first viewed BG from the cell video footage I immediately thought he had a disguise on. Someone posted an amazon mask that could be a possibility. My initial thought was something similar to panty hose over his face, not something that would immediately stand out as a disguise but one that would serve that purpose upon closer inspection.

this to me makes sense with the 2 vastly different sketches. It also makes sense to me why she decided to film him, he would appear weird/creepy looking the closer he got with something like that over his face

3. I believe LE’s words regarding the shock and surprise of the perps identify once everyone finds out was done to illicit some sort of feeling out of whoever they believe did this. More of a psychological move on LE’s part. Which to me makes sense if the perp is actually younger or has some mommy type issues or female respect issues. However this could very well be a teacher or coach in the surrounding communities.

4. I’m torn on the question regarding if this was randomly done or if the girls were sought out specifically. I tend to believe it was not random. One thing I believe for sure is that he went there that day intending to find a victim. I do not think it was a spur of the moment due to Opportunity occurrence.

5. I think 1 or both of the girls may have realized they knew or recognized BG after seeing him close up with or without the disguise.

Lastly, I have a question of my own. I believe I read somewhere on here or maybe heard it on the podcast down the hill or shoot could have even been an episode on ID...has it been said that some believe BG is a relative or family member of 1 of the girls? I do know a lot of cases like these are done by someone the victim knows but I really don’t feel that BG was anyone that close to either of them. I say that because of their decision to film him. I believe it would be a completely different reaction had they really known or recognized him to a greater extent. But I did want clarification on that. Thank you

Well, I have a new appreciation for wigs. My mother, prior to her Alzheimer's diagnosis, was buying random things from infomercials. One thing she started buying was wigs. I have seven unused wigs of various shades of dark brown/light brown colors. As a joke, my husband put one on the other day while we were cleaning the house out. It fit his head perfectly and was snug like real hair. It totally changed his look. My husband keeps his own hair cut very short and it is mostly gray. If my husband had gone into any business wearing that wig and committed a crime, and witnesses had to describe him...they would never get his hair style or hair color correct. It completely changed his appearance. He looked so different. His hair was thick around his forehead and along the sides by his ears. We laughed when we saw it on him. So, I have to say with a heavy heart, wigs work well to change a person's appearance.

 

[Yemelyan]

I just finished both seasons of "Mindhunter". I read the book by John Douglas years ago and forgotten about several things in the book so the show was a refresher of sorts. One of things that pops up in the show and the book and that is some serial killers like Ed Kemper revisit the crime scene and if the crime scene is too hot because of publicity or LE then they fall back on souvenirs taken from the victims. I wonder if this killer has gone back to the trail or the cemetery. Or the town even. I considered sometime back that the 'New Direction' might have been due to his returning to the area around the trails and recognized by someone who was also there the day of the murders. We've never heard if this killer kept a souvenir or souvenirs from the victims. Part of his signature or MO if so?

I think that IF he is as local as LE seems to believe right now, he has almost certainly been back. I doubt the trails are traveled well enough that anyone has observed this necessarily, but I think that if he's the type of killer I think he is, the lure of re-living the experience would call to him very strongly.

Edit to add: we don't know if he took something away from the scene. But I think he probably did. I'm sure the search warrants from the early days of the investigation, which I assume are now sealed, would reveal something about this because I think LE suspected this early on.

 

[sunshineray]

It's been some time since I came in this thread, but I often think of Abby and Libby. I come in, read up on the current discussion, and normally move along

It just baffles me to no end that this case has not been solved. I bounce back and forth. Local or not? One or two perps?

If this killer, or killers, were local, I can't imagine someone not knowing who it is, unless of course, that someone is protecting him/them.

Then there's the disguise angle. BG disguising himself. Do y'all mean you think BG may have had on a wig?

ALL the things said by LE. No need to reiterate it here. It seems to me they think BG is local, or was local, or visited Delphi regular, but NOBODY ever recognized the man in the video. That in and of itself is near unbelievable to me.

I often thought LE knows the perp(s), but don't have the evidence to convict. But how could that be? How could they know who it is?

Then there's the staging I see discussed. I can't wrap my head around what that may be. LE comments regarding the scene. It's just mind boggling to me.

And then there's this. Cold case. Nobody wants to call it that, yet here we are, years later, no answers.

In my gut, I still think these two girls were targeted for some reason. I just can't wrap my head around this being a drifting murderer just passing through. Or even a person familiar with the area, but just seeking to murder someone, anyone.

Motive? Targeted would mean motive, yes?

Anyway, why'd she snap that bridge photo anyway? Scared? Suspicious? I think so. I think for some reason, her spidey senses were up. But why?

I hate the fact this case has not been solved.

Sorry for the rant.

Over and out

Snipped and BBM
In my gut, I still think these two girls were targeted for some reason. I just can't wrap my head around this being a drifting murderer just passing through. Or even a person familiar with the area, but just seeking to murder someone, anyone.

In the same interview that the Sheriff mentions about knowing BG's voice he also said when asked about why he said there was no danger to the public, he "...had a feeling then and still does now that this incident was isolated to the victims..." and there was "...no ongoing threat to public".

Kind of sounds like what you're saying doesn't it. How the chief LE officer in the county can say that is a mystery to me. I get not wanting to have panic in the community and so on BUT telling that community they need not worry about the remaining women folk being in danger after two young girls were brutally murdered and that killer is at large!?

That and calling the professional search off overnight, I will never understand.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Snipped and BBM
In my gut, I still think these two girls were targeted for some reason. I just can't wrap my head around this being a drifting murderer just passing through. Or even a person familiar with the area, but just seeking to murder someone, anyone.

In the same interview that the Sheriff mentions about knowing BG's voice he also said when asked about why he said there was no danger to the public, he "...had a feeling then and still does now that this incident was isolated to the victims..." and there was "...no ongoing threat to public".

Kind of sounds like what you're saying doesn't it. How the chief LE officer in the county can say that is a mystery to me. I get not wanting to have panic in the community and so on BUT telling that community they need not worry about the remaining women folk being in danger after two young girls were brutally murdered and that killer is at large!?

That and calling the professional search off overnight, I will never understand.

I have always believed that one of the girls was targeted and that there was prior contact via SM; likely one of those d*mn apps that wipes out it's own breadcrumbs.

Upthread I speculated there would be an arrest by July 4th or shortly thereafter. Still holding on to that hope and speculation. I think someone has finally talked, or will shortly. I'm sure they can't sleep at night.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[sunshineray]

I have always believed that one of the girls was targeted and that there was prior contact via SM; likely one of those d*mn apps that wipes out it's own breadcrumbs.

Upthread I speculated there would be an arrest by July 4th or shortly thereafter. Still holding on to that hope and speculation. I think someone has finally talked, or will shortly. I'm sure they can't sleep at night.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I've been waiting, hoping and praying your prediction with happen! Especially after some of the things that have posted here lately, it gave me a more positive attitude that something is coming . We can only pray harder for justice and closure long overdue.

 

[Falling Down]

Well, I have a new appreciation for wigs. My mother, prior to her Alzheimer's diagnosis, was buying random things from infomercials. One thing she started buying was wigs. I have seven unused wigs of various shades of dark brown/light brown colors. As a joke, my husband put one on the other day while we were cleaning the house out. It fit his head perfectly and was snug like real hair. It totally changed his look. My husband keeps his own hair cut very short and it is mostly gray. If my husband had gone into any business wearing that wig and committed a crime, and witnesses had to describe him...they would never get his hair style or hair color correct. It completely changed his appearance. He looked so different. His hair was thick around his forehead and along the sides by his ears. We laughed when we saw it on him. So, I have to say with a heavy heart, wigs work well to change a person's appearance.

I'm of the opinion BG wore a disguise at some point or points that day. Just the images and video alone scream to me "disguise!". The clothes look oversized, etc.

It may explain the "two sketches".

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Well, I have a new appreciation for wigs. My mother, prior to her Alzheimer's diagnosis, was buying random things from infomercials. One thing she started buying was wigs. I have seven unused wigs of various shades of dark brown/light brown colors. As a joke, my husband put one on the other day while we were cleaning the house out. It fit his head perfectly and was snug like real hair. It totally changed his look. My husband keeps his own hair cut very short and it is mostly gray. If my husband had gone into any business wearing that wig and committed a crime, and witnesses had to describe him...they would never get his hair style or hair color correct. It completely changed his appearance. He looked so different. His hair was thick around his forehead and along the sides by his ears. We laughed when we saw it on him. So, I have to say with a heavy heart, wigs work well to change a person's appearance.

Thank you for a good idea. My husband is balding. We never discussed this as an option here, but imagine someone losing hair. I doubt hair transplant is common in Delphi, and it costs. A wig, or several wigs, in a person’s wardrobe, would raise no concerns.

So imagine, he shows up on the bridge, in a wig, a hat, probably fake mustache (looks salt-and-pepper to me), plus this stupid scarf/mask.

All he needs to do to avoid detection is pull off the hat and the wig. Does anyone remember young Bruce Willis? With hair or without, he is handsome, but looks very different.

 

[Charlot123]

I've been waiting, hoping and praying your prediction with happen! Especially after some of the things that have posted here lately, it gave me a more positive attitude that something is coming . We can only pray harder for justice and closure long overdue.

He needs to take care of it himself, to avoid the disgrace of trial and the rest. Also, if he has a family, disgrace to the family name. MOO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

]
In my gut, I still think these two girls were targeted for some reason. I just can't wrap my head around this being a drifting murderer just passing through. Or even a person familiar with the area, but just seeking to murder someone, anyone.

Motive? Targeted would mean motive, yes?

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.
Agree. I absolutely believe one of the girls was targeted and had previous contact with the Perp on SM.

Motive? I was recently communicating with a LE veteran in reference to another case. He said in the case of serial killers (which I believe the Delphi Perp to be), their reasoning is "why not?" Miscreants of this variety have absolutely no empathy or connection to humanity. Controlling and inflicting pain is highly stimulating to them, and they could care less about the Victim(s). The empathy part of their brain does not function, and renders them to the same level as a hungry snake. It's just that simple.

This reptile will be caught and caged. I would make them an offer if the justice system would allow. They could choose life with hard labor, (chain gang), or they could get three hots and a cot in exchange for *non-invasive* tests on their brain, and agree to donate their brain for study when deceased. We need to better understand the malfunction, so we can attempt to suppress these reptilian instincts, or at least identify the patterns of behavior leading up to these devastating acts against humanity.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.
Agree. I absolutely believe one of the girls was targeted and had previous contact with the Perp on SM.

Motive? I was recently communicating with a LE veteran in reference to another case. He said in the case of serial killers (which I believe the Delphi Perp to be), their reasoning is "why not?" Miscreants of this variety have absolutely no empathy or connection to humanity. Controlling and inflicting pain is highly stimulating to them, and they could care less about the Victim(s). The empathy part of their brain does not function, and renders them to the same level as a hungry snake. It's just that simple.

This reptile will be caught and caged. I would make them an offer if the justice system would allow. They could choose life with hard labor, (chain gang), or they could get three hots and a cot in exchange for *non-invasive* tests on their brain, and agree to donate their brain for study when deceased. We need to better understand the malfunction, so we can attempt to suppress these reptilian instincts, or at least identify the patterns of behavior leading up to these devastating acts against humanity.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Do you think he will have to be extradited or that he is local? Also do you think he will be implicated in the Iowa girls murders from 2012?

 

[BigTexas]

I would like all webslueths to know that I am still here. I will never give up hope for a resolution to this tragic double murder. NEVER. I agree that there is some connection via social media. There is more to this case than what meets the eye. Much love to everyone...sleuths, family, friends...love to all of you.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Do you think he will have to be extradited or that he is local? Also do you think he will be implicated in the Iowa girls murders from 2012?

We know so little it's difficult to answer those questions with anything grounded in fact. Having said that, my amateur speculation and opinion is that he will have a routine connection to Delphi; he either travels(ed) to Delphi routinely for work, or has a family member or close acquaintance living there. Many have pondered whether this is a close relative of a teacher, coach, or someone who had/has routine contact with children/young teens.

As far as the Iowa murders, I have even less info on that case than Delphi. It could be copy cat, it certainly could be related. If pressed to offer an opinion, I'd say they are connected.

There are two very specific facts in this case that I think are paramount. First, it was a school day off and I believe the Perp knew that. How? What is his connection to the school? Second, this happened just before/on Valentines Day. Obviously very significant.

That was a long winded way of saying you know as much as I do. I'm just applying my own reasoning based on the little we do know. In the end, I think this case will be far less sensational as some are portraying it. Just another loser raping and murdering because he lacks a properly functioning brain.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Yemelyan]

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.


Motive? I was recently communicating with a LE veteran in reference to another case. He said in the case of serial killers (which I believe the Delphi Perp to be), their reasoning is "why not?" Miscreants of this variety have absolutely no empathy or connection to humanity. Controlling and inflicting pain is highly stimulating to them, and they could care less about the Victim(s). The empathy part of their brain does not function, and renders them to the same level as a hungry snake. It's just that simple.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I snipped this part of your post because I very much agree with it, especially the bolded part. It might be tough to reconcile this with Carter's statements about believing someone knows, because of how different you (BG) are, believing BG has just a bit of a conscience left, etc.

However, I think all of those press conference statements weren't meant to be taken at face value, they were meant to provoke and elicit a reaction. The only thing that matters to these offenders is that they are viewed as powerful and in control. Anything suggesting otherwise gets under their skin.

Just like how Carter kept emphasizing "two little girls." Some of these offenders don't want to be viewed as pedophiles and don't even want to be associated with their crimes against underage victims.

Carter may have gone off script in parts of the press conference but I believe the statements above were probably coached by FBI behavioralists.

 

[Imvp2]

I commented way back , that BG was in some sort of disguise, a fake bulbous nose and moustache...merely for descriptive purposes....Anyone that seem him would remember that description. I don't think he was known to the girls at all. I don't think he lives local but the delphi area was merely a hub for his job. I think He is an over the road truck driver. He may have left a car there somewhere...My neighbor always left a car in the motel parking lot He stayed at. BG may have been familiar with the bridge having walked it previously during down times from driving. I
Think he was literally looking for his next opportunity, and the second sketch is what he looks like without the nose or moustache Lastly, I think there may be a link to the Iowa case....He needs to be caught. These families deserve justice

 

[Confusion]

Well, I have a new appreciation for wigs. My mother, prior to her Alzheimer's diagnosis, was buying random things from infomercials. One thing she started buying was wigs. I have seven unused wigs of various shades of dark brown/light brown colors. As a joke, my husband put one on the other day while we were cleaning the house out. It fit his head perfectly and was snug like real hair. It totally changed his look. My husband keeps his own hair cut very short and it is mostly gray. If my husband had gone into any business wearing that wig and committed a crime, and witnesses had to describe him...they would never get his hair style or hair color correct. It completely changed his appearance. He looked so different. His hair was thick around his forehead and along the sides by his ears. We laughed when we saw it on him. So, I have to say with a heavy heart, wigs work well to change a person's appearance.

In addition to wigs, glasses and facial hair also make a big difference. I've known guys who completely changed their appearance by just shaving or growing a mustache or wearing/removing glasses. If a man normally has very short grey hair, a mustache and dark rimmed glasses and wears a brown wig, shaves his mustache off, and switches to contacts, he could not only look completely different, he could also look 10-20 years younger. Once he was done, all he'd have to do is remove the wig, switch back to glasses and stay out of sight for a couple of days until his mustache grew back.