Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[JnRyan]

I still hope and pray every day that there will be a break in the case. Thank you to all of you for continuing to post in the thread. We will never give up hope there will be an arrest one day.

I hope it is ok to ask I have been wondering if there is any news on how Liberty’s Grandma is doing with her brave cancer battle? I can’t imagine what the girl’s families are going through every day.

Gregrichards! Glad to see you here. Its been a while.

 

[JnRyan]

My notes from Scene of the Crime: Delphi – Suspects.

February 22, 2017
FBI Special Agent In-Charge Greg Massa presented a behavioral profile of the killer to help the public identify the suspect if he was among their friends, acquaintances, colleagues, or family – even if they couldn’t recognize him from the still images.

FBI Agent Massa: “Just think if you had an interaction with an individual who, uh, inexplicably canceled that appointment that you had had together. Or, uh, an individual called into work sick, uh and-d-d um, canceled an important appointment or social engagement. And, at the time gave what would have been a plausible explanation. Um, my cell phone broke or I had a flat tire on my car. But in retrospect, that excuse no longer holds water. That—that—that, that may be, that may be important. Likely, so are behavioral indicators that this, uh, individual may have exhibited since that afternoon of May 13th. Did this individual travel unexpectedly? Did they change their appearance? Did they shave their beard? Cut their hair? Change the color of their hair? The superintendent mentioned the clothes that this individual was wearing in the photo. Did they—did they change the way they dress?”

Massa also pointed out several behaviors to watch out for and included:

• anyone who has a different sleep pattern
• anyone who started abusing drugs or alcohol when they hadn’t before
• anyone who has become anxious or irritable
• anyone who has followed this case
• anyone who has paid close attention to what the media has releasing (with an abnormal focus and intensity)
• anyone who has ongoing conversations about where they were on February 13th

Dr. Catherine M. Brown, who is an expert on child abduction murders, spoke with SOC about certain attributes that might be exhibited:

Dr. Brown: “These offenders are much more unstrikingly, white males. They tend to be a little older. Generally speaking, these are committed by white males. They tend to be under employed or not employed. They tend to be a little more transient than the other population.”

July 17, 2017
A news release that included a sketch of the man believed to be involved in the murders of Abby and Libby was published.

The news release stated:
“The person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a white male between 5’6” to 5’10”, weighing 180-220 pounds, reddish-brown hair, eye color unknown. The sketch depicts a hat that may not be accurate. We ask that you focus on the person’s facial features.”

Sketch Facts:

• the man with a broad face, hooded eyes, and a bulbous nose
• he's wearing a hoodie under his jacket and a newsboy cap
• he's a white man with a goatee and mustache
• it's a composite drawing created with descriptions given by at least two witnesses (possibly more) who saw the man walking on the trails that day; one of the witnesses is believed to be Dan McCain and another witness is believed to be a woman who told LE that she saw the man walking near Delphi around the time the girls were killed – per Sheriff Tobe Leazenby (This woman took months to come forward and was close enough to the man to report that his eyes were not blue in color)
• it was drawn by an FBI sketch artist
• it's intended to help clarify the grainy still images of the suspect
• it depicts the same person seen in the video still images
• it had been worked on for over a month
• it was the result of tips and leads pursued by LE over the course of the investigation

Within two days of the sketch release, the ISP had received over 1,000 tips; that number spiked to 6,000 within a month. By July 2017, the ISP had interviewed and investigated over 1,000 persons.

POTENTIAL SUSPECTS

*The podcast mentions the following men by name and refers to them as suspects. However, I will NOT be posting their names (except when directly quoted by law enforcement) to comply with TOS.

Sheriff Tobe Leazenby has said the property owner has “been covered” by the investigators.

#1 - Colorado Springs Hatchet Sex Offender

• a Colorado native
• he was arrested on September 25, 2017 for threatening people with a hatchet on a wooded hiking trail in Colorado Springs
• he's suspected of murdering mountain biker Tim Watkins the same week he was arrested
• the ISP never explained why they were interested in him but flew to Colorado Springs to interview him after his arrest
• he was arrested on charges of illegal possession of a firearm, felony menacing, reckless endangerment, assault, criminal mischief, trespassing, and failing to register as a sex offender
• a warrant was out for his arrest in Indiana for failing to register his address with authorities
• he had felony convictions in Morgan County, IN for domestic battery and a sexual offense
• he also had convictions for indecent exposure and drunk driving in South Carolina (these charges were initiated after he was discovered masturbating while peeping into the stall of a women’s restroom)
• his last known address in Indiana was at a motel in Greenwood in Carroll County in May 2017
• he was essentially a transient and moved between short-term motel rooms, rental apartments, and tents pitched under bridges and behind buildings (he was living out of a car with his wife and children when he was arrested in Colorado)
• the ISP were already looking for DN in connection to this case because he’d failed to check in as a sex offender in Carroll County for several months
• he was working for a construction company in Zionsville, IN when the girls were killed
• he claims to have an alibi on the day of the murders – he said he went to an ultrasound appointment with his wife
• his wife has confirmed she had an appointment that day but cannot recall if he accompanied her to it
• his wife has said they share a car and wouldn't have been able to drive to Delphi because she drove the vehicle to her appointment
• he didn’t own a blue jacket like the one worn in the picture, according to his wife
• he has a broad face, reddish-brown hair, a large nose, and hooded eyes
• he is a white man with a goatee and mustache

The ISP released the following statement:
“We are aware of the arrest of the person in Colorado and are investigating to see if he can be a suspect in the Delphi double murder investigation. Please keep in mind the Indiana State Police has received more than 1,000 photos of persons alleged to be similar in appearance to the composite sketch of the Delphi person of interest. Each and every one of these tips are investigated for any potential connection to our case. We will give the same attention to the person arrested in Colorado, but right now there is nothing that definitively connects this person to our investigation.”

October 3, 2017
The ISP stated they could not “specifically include or exclude Daniel Nations as a suspect in the Delphi homicides”.

Sheriff Leazenby said, “there have been some similarities brought to our attention, but I cannot speak of the details.”

El Paso County Colorado Sheriff Spokesperson said there were many similarities between the cases but would not elaborate.


February 2018
The man adamantly denied his involvement and has said that he voluntarily gave the ISP a sample of his DNA.

February 13, 2018 – the one-year anniversary
LE held a press conference at the MHB trail, and Superintendent Doug Carter stated, “We cannot allow, we cannot allow evil to prevail.”

It was announced that 30,000 tips had been received in the case, but LE said they still need one more piece of the puzzle.

Doug Carter: “I believe we’re one piece of the puzzle away from figuring out who this individual is.

Delphi investigators requested assistance in the case from the Georgia Bureau of Investigations (GBI) and FBI officers from other field offices. However, the overall number of investigators on the case was scaled back and the command center returned to it’s original small office space at Delphi City Hall.

#2 – April Tinsley’s Killer
April Tinsley was abducted in Fort Wayne, IN (about two hours from Delphi) in 1988 while walking to a friend’s house to retrieve her forgotten umbrella. Her body was found in a ditch three days later in southern DeKalb County. She was sexually assaulted and strangled to death within 24 hours of her abduction. The killer taunted LE in 1990 with poorly spelled messages that claimed responsibility for April’s murder. The first message was scrawled in crayon on the side of an old barn, and the spelling errors were believed to be intentional to throw off investigators. Four subsequent notes, purportedly left by her killer, were found on bicycles belonging to other children in the neighborhood and were accompanied by used condoms. Despite the evidence left behind, the killer eluded LE for 30 years.

Genealogical testing showed the DNA from semen samples belonged to one of two brothers. After obtaining a search warrant, LE took DNA samples from one of their homes and were able to match the DNA to the samples collected in April’s case. In 2018, JM pled guilty to the murder of April Tinsley.

Sgt. Kim Riley refused to discuss whether JM was considered a suspect in Libby and Abby’s killings, but he doesn’t appear to resemble the sketch and his MO is decidedly different from the Delphi killer.

#3 – Catholic Supply Store Killer
November 19, 2018
A 53-year-old former pastor entered a Catholic supply store in St. Louis, MO (290 miles away) at 3:00 pm and forced three women into a back room at gun point. He ordered the three women to strip and shot one of them in the head when she refused. He then raped and sodomized the other two before leaving the store. The pastor was arrested at his trailer home two days later.

Similarities to the Delphi murders:

• an attack on multiple female victims during the daytime
• the pastor was wearing a navy blue jacket, plaid shirt, and newsboy cap during the attack
• he was a white man with a mustache and goatee
• he appeared to be in the 5’7” to 5’9” and 200 pound range

Jerry Holeman has said LE is aware of the similarities and has been in contact with authorities in St. Louis County.

Important factors to note:

• the St. Louis crime appeared to be one of opportunity – the suspect cased the store, returned to his vehicle to retrieve a gun, and then accosted the females inside
• after his arrest, LE linked the pastor to an unsolved attack on a 77-year-old woman in Jefferson County two months earlier (he knocked on her door at random, pushed her aside, assaulted her, and forced her to perform sex acts on him)
• his wife was blindsided by his arrest and those who knew him were shocked by the charges
• he was stationed at the same military base as a woman who was murdered in 1985 (another man was executed for the crime but The Innocence Project maintains he was innocent)
• his pending charges are likely part of the reason investigators haven’t commented on the case or confirmed/denied his connections to Delphi

#4 – Child Sex Offender Busted in Sting

January 8, 2019
A man who resembled the sketch was arrested in Union City, Indiana (116 miles from Delphi) after he attempted to meet with an undercover officer posing online as a 13-year-old girl

The ISP released a statement that read:
“The Delphi Multi-agency Investigative Team and participating agencies continue to receive media and public inquiries asking about the person arrested January 8th, 2019 in Union City, Randolph County, Indiana for allegations of sexually related crimes against children and if he is connected to the Delphi investigation. The team is aware of this arrest and will investigate to see if there can be any connection to the murders that occurred in Delphi, Indiana on February 13th of 2017.”

• he admitted to engaging in sex acts with another child under the age of 13 on multiple occasions
• his mugshot depicts a jowly man with reddish-brown hair, a bulbous nose, a mustache, and hooded eyes
• his family has described him as a violent, oddball loner who masturbated in front of children, liked to spend time in the woods, and a short, stocky G.I. Joe wannabe
• he’s a former security guard
• he posted on SM about the Delphi murders

January 10, 2019
Randolph County LE issued a statement saying there is currently zero evidence that ties him to this case and is not a suspect in the case

January 19, 2019
ISP Captain Dave Burston released a statement to the effect that police had no evidence suggesting or disproving whether he is connected to Abby or Libby’s murders

#5 – Nicole Bowen’s Killer

March 29, 2019
A 21-year-old man was arrested in Kentland (about 35 miles from Delphi) for the murder of NB

• he would have been 19 at the time of the murders
• he shared the same physique as BG in February 2017 with a heavyset frame
• has ties to Delphi (an hour’s drive from his home in Lebanon)
• his girlfriend is from Delphi
• there’s some indication he’s spent time on/near RL’s property and has a connection to the Logan family
• a photo of a horse on his FB page has identical markings as a horse on RL’s farm, as seen in an Inside Edition interview

#6 – Flat Tire Attacker

January 22, 2019 @ 4:30 am
A 26-year-old woman got a flat tire while driving to Delphi. She was in Tippecanoe County on County Road 900 East at the time and was approached by a man from a nearby home when she pulled her car off the side of the road. The man gave her a weird vibe, so she drove off and then pulled into a friend’s driveway on County Road 900 North. The man followed her, pulled in behind her, and then attacked her using force without a weapon. He drove the woman to a remote barn on his family’s farm property on County Road 775 East and sexually assaulted her for the next five hours. Surprisingly, the man drove her to her vehicle around 9:30 am and dropped her off. The attacker fled and eluded police by hiding out in the woods for five days. He then stole a pickup truck and killed himself by shooting himself twice in the head during a standoff with Boone County police officers.

• he posted an apology to his friends, family, LE, and the community on social media before he killed himself
• he sent a picture of himself wearing an IUD necklace around his neck to a woman he’d been texting with and called it a trophy
• Sheriff Leazenby said they had already been looking at this man because he had been called into the tip line
• he was 5’9” tall, approximately 170 pounds, with brown eyes
• he’d been bald for at least a few years before his death
• he lived in Lafayette (only 15 miles from Delphi)
• he was known to love the woods and was very comfortable there
• he had instances of domestic battery and two other felonies in his past
• he had a suspicious online interaction with someone in Delphi and a friend of Libby’s family
• a post-mortem DNA profile and copy of his autopsy report were requested by Delphi LE
• he sent a FB message to someone that read “the sheriff suggested that things have been happening in the Delphi area in the past few months, any idea what he is referring to?”

Its been a while since I've listened so this is good to read.

 

[Ozoner]

Total speculation:

My theory is that it's possible that NBG / BG was a local, off-duty LEO for Carroll, Delphi, or Camden at the time of the murders.

A local LEO would've known that kids were out of school that day. He would've been familiar with the Delphi Trails area, and known that teens often hung out there. He would've known where to park to not be noticed (away from the Mears lot).

He would've known how to quickly incapacitate and constrain two teenage girls. He would've possibly thought to exit via the cemetery and walk back along the road (rather than crossing back over the bridge and going through an area of the park where there were sure to be more witnesses present - though it still is possible he returned using the low trail along the creek).

If there was no "unexplainable" DNA found at the crime scene, (or DNA indicating a specific sex crime took place) maybe that is because the DNA found belonged to a LEO who was a member of investigation team (I'm speculating that this LEO may have been a member of the team that actually processed the CS on the 14th).

Maybe that's also why investigators have suggested that the murderer may have been (and could still be) "hiding in plain sight". Maybe that's why Leazenby also said he "knows that voice...(but) just can't put a name with the voice" (this would maybe make sense if the voice actually belonged to one of Leazenby's own employees, or a former employee).

And maybe that's also why at the April 2019 PC that LE acted as if the murderer might wel be in the same room with them (I'm guessing that most LEO's active in the investigation at the time were present at the PC).

And how would LE possibly otherwise know that a suspect "looked younger than his actual age" - without actually having a suspect in mind? If a witness was recollecting an encounter they'd had with a possible suspect, I think it unlikely the witness would say something like: "he looked young(er), but I think he was older than he looked". So why not just say he looked older? That makes no sense to me.

I think LE has perhaps had a strong suspect in mind in this case for quite some time now. Without a witness, however, and without "usable" or "unexplainable" DNA, and without any evidence directly tying the suspect to the crime scene (like a murder weapon, footprints, digital evidence, etc. that couldn't otherwise be easily explained away by that LEO's presence and participation as a member of the investigation team), and without a confession, I think LE may be stymied in this case. I sure hope not. JMO

There's a much simpler explanation for the comment that NBG might look younger than his actual age. Chances are the witness described someone who looked much younger than the age range predicted by the FBI profile.

 

[stattlich1]

FBI, local law enforcement, ISP, tens of thousands of tips, video, audio, recovered bodies, intensive CS investigation, national coverage, webcasts, podcasts, youtubers galore...
And no arrest.

I can't post some of my thoughts on here, however, I'm baffled by the entire case. Very unusual IMHO.

 

[Marzipan]

Total speculation:

My theory is that it's possible that NBG / BG was a local, off-duty LEO for Carroll, Delphi, or Camden at the time of the murders.

A local LEO would've known that kids were out of school that day. He would've been familiar with the Delphi Trails area, and known that teens often hung out there. He would've known where to park to not be noticed (away from the Mears lot).

He would've known how to quickly incapacitate and constrain two teenage girls. He would've possibly thought to exit via the cemetery and walk back along the road (rather than crossing back over the bridge and going through an area of the park where there were sure to be more witnesses present - though it still is possible he returned using the low trail along the creek).

If there was no "unexplainable" DNA found at the crime scene, (or DNA indicating a specific sex crime took place) maybe that is because the DNA found belonged to a LEO who was a member of investigation team (I'm speculating that this LEO may have been a member of the team that actually processed the CS on the 14th).

Maybe that's also why investigators have suggested that the murderer may have been (and could still be) "hiding in plain sight". Maybe that's why Leazenby also said he "knows that voice...(but) just can't put a name with the voice" (this would maybe make sense if the voice actually belonged to one of Leazenby's own employees, or a former employee).

And maybe that's also why at the April 2019 PC that LE acted as if the murderer might wel be in the same room with them (I'm guessing that most LEO's active in the investigation at the time were present at the PC).

And how would LE possibly otherwise know that a suspect "looked younger than his actual age" - without actually having a suspect in mind? If a witness was recollecting an encounter they'd had with a possible suspect, I think it unlikely the witness would say something like: "he looked young(er), but I think he was older than he looked". So why not just say he looked older? That makes no sense to me.

I think LE has perhaps had a strong suspect in mind in this case for quite some time now. Without a witness, however, and without "usable" or "unexplainable" DNA, and without any evidence directly tying the suspect to the crime scene (like a murder weapon, footprints, digital evidence, etc. that couldn't otherwise be easily explained away by that LEO's presence and participation as a member of the investigation team), and without a confession, I think LE may be stymied in this case. I sure hope not. JMO

Could be, wouldn’t be a first. But most of these reasons could apply to all kinds of people.
It has never mattered to me about anyone knowing or not knowing that school was out that day because middle graders (at least where I live) get out of school at about that time anyway. The timing almost makes me think the BG did NOT know school was out that day and was there preparing for after-school kids to come.

 

[Rush4087]

There's a much simpler explanation for the comment that NBG might look younger than his actual age. Chances are the witness described someone who looked much younger than the age range predicted by the FBI profile.

Or could it mean that the first-issued (OBG) sketch was a sketch of somebody else who happened to be on the trails that day, and not a sketch depicting the man who was on the bridge in the video-still? I personally think that the sketches are of two different people, but that's jmo.

Not blaming LE - as I'm sure they did what they thought was best at the time - but in retrospect it appears that they erred in issuing the OBG sketch (at least w/o issuing a "may appear younger" caveat with it). I think they have kinda-sorta admitted as much. The OBG sketch is now considered "secondary".

If LE had witnesses who thought that the OBG suspect looked younger than the age suggested by an FBI profile, why not say so when they issued the OBG sketch rather than wait until they issued the much-younger-looking NBG sketch two years later? Did the witness who thought OBG was younger than the man depicted by the artist in the OBG sketch not come forward until then? Did LE not believe that particular witness until then? What changed? Just seems odd to me.

Looking at the OBG sketch, it doesn't appear that LE attempted to influence the artist to make it appear that the suspect was young or younger. He certainly doesn't look young to me. In fact, when I first saw the OBG sketch I just assumed that LE had provided some input to the artist to be sure that the sketch at least resembled the man on the bridge. LE was insisting that the man on the bridge was the murderer, so the sketch would have to look something like him. And we know that LE at least provided enough editorial input to have added the imagined hat. Yet the artist msintaibs that LE did not influence the drawing in any way. Hard to reconcile the two statements.

I think that LE believes that both sketches are of the same man. Why else would they say that they think that if/when the actual murderer is caught, he will look like "something between the two" sketches? I find that to be illogical given that LE insists that NBG is now the man on the bridge, and that (to me) the two sketches look nothing alike.

Furthermore, since the April '19 PC LE has suggested a very broad age range for NBG with an upper limit of 40 (which I guess means that the FBI has discounted any earlier profile they developed). Not sure why LE would suggest this upper age limit. There's been no indication (that I've seen, anyway) that LE used something like DNA methylation to contribute to the NBG sketch or to project a possible suspect's age. Again, the artist said that LE had no input at all.

I'm sure that issuing an age range for NBG was intended to narrow the search for a suspect, but I'm not convinced that suggesting such a specific range (being very broad at 18-40, and having an upper limit of 40) won't prove to be a profile / strategy error in the opposite direction (from the OBG sketch issuance). Setting an upper age limit of 40 not only contradicts the OBG sketch, but it risks excluding any suspect over that age (though LE warns that the suspect may in fact look younger than his real age..).

My theoretical LEO POI in my previous post was 43 or 44 I think back in 2017, but may have looked much younger. Being over 40 however would exclude him as a suspect. Given that it's now been over three years and the identification of the murderer remains a mystery, I do still think that if the suspect were (at the time) a local LEO, his occupation would have perhaps provided excellent cover. I hope they identify and catch the killer soon.

All jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

My notes from Scene of the Crime - Delphi: Evidence.


Within in a week of discovering the bodies of Libby and Abby, 25 different agencies on the local, state, and federal level were working on this case.

Superintendent Doug Carter: “We also reached out to a lot of other agencies in Indiana where we have tips. So, just from the police perspective, we had detectives here from every one of our posts from around Indiana. We have 14 of them. So, over a hundred and fifty people within the ISP have touched this in some way or another.”

March 2017
The Delphi Command Center moved to a larger space to accommodate the larger number of personnel working on the case.

On any given day, there were approximately 20 FBI agents – in addition to 30 other LE officers – working 20 hours a day on the investigation. The FBI had taken over the tip lines in late February and moved the call center to Washington. However, they continued to funnel tips that were deemed important to investigators on the ground in Delphi via satellite trucks stationed outside the local command center.

February 23, 2017 (one month after the murders)
LE had processed 3,900 tips; 1,900 of those came in after the “down the hill” audio clip was released.

By the end of April –
16,000 tips had been reported and more than 500 people had been investigated by the ISP as a result.

The FBI created a “Seeking Information” poster that was distributed nationally. They also generated a nationwide billboard campaign and utilized 6,000 billboards in 46 states. The billboards displayed the still images of the suspect, photos of Abby and Libby, basic information about the case, and the tip line phone number. Interestingly, the billboards stated that BG was last seen at 2:30 pm on February 13th, 2017.

Paul Holes – the DNA expert that identified the Golden State Killer – spoke with SOC about the evidence process.

Holes: “Any time I have a case, it’s likely that there is no known relationship between the victim and the offender. I’m looking for that physical evidence that could actually identify the offender. That is really limited to two forms of physical evidence. Uh, in terms of the forensics sense. And that’s DNA and fingerprints. And so, now it’s really looking at what is present within the crime scene. Whether it be at the crime scene, objects in the crime scene, evidence collected from the victim’s clothing or the victim’s bodies that might be able to give me that critical DNA evidence. Or that critical fingerprint evidence to give me a name. Uh, that is so important. And so that’s, that’s where the focus in these types of cases has to be.”

The ISP began stopping drivers in the area within hours of the bodies being located, and they were asked if they’d seen anything suspicious or unusual. According to Sgt. Jerry Holeman of the ISP – the lead investigator for that agency – officers spoke to as many as 600 people in this canvas.

Sgt. Kim Riley said, “They were trying to get people driving down the Hoosier Heartland who had been on the interstate. That were in Logansport, that might’ve saw somebody walking, hitchhiking. If they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We were just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance.”

Investigators also tracked down people who were on the MHB trail that day to seek out information and went door-to-door at the residences located near the bridge to determine if homeowners had seen anything on the 13th.

Local registered sex offenders living in Delphi as of 2019 – of which there were 12 – and the many others living in surrounding counties were rounded up, questioned about their alibi, and polygraphed in some cases. More than 20 people who were contacted by LE in connection to this case were arrested on unrelated charges.

70 subpoenas and 12 search warrants (that we know of) were executed in the months following the crime. The two executed at Ron Logan’s property, as well as the one on Bicycle Bridge Road about 5 miles away, have already been mentioned. On February 25, another search warrant was executed at a residence on Canal Street in Peru, IN (30 miles away). LE has said the persons at this particular residence are in no way connected to Libby and Abby.

We have no other information about the remainder of those search warrants. They may have been property searches or they may have been issued to obtain video surveillance footage from a local business or residence. They may have also been issued to obtain cell phone records, computers, or other technological information.

Robert Ives told SOC that he personally submitted several subpoenas to obtain all cell phone records from phones within a five mile radius of the trails to determine who was in the area that day. All owners of cell phones that pinged in the area of the bridge were contacted regarding their activities and asked about what they had seen. Investigators paid special attention to phone records of anyone who was new to the area or had spent several hours in the area during the time in question.

LE also tried to determine the suspect’s method of ingress and egress to and from the area. Parameters given by LE indicate they believe the suspect left the area by 5:00 pm but was possibly still in the area when searchers began to look for the girls.

BG only had a few options to avoid being seen and only two of those are likely:

1. north thru Ron Logan’s property or the cemetery on County Road 300 North
2. west thru the woods along the north bank of Deer Creek, rejoined the MHB trial before the start of the bridge, and then walked back to Delphi or elsewhere via the Freedom Bridge Trail

These routes are close to the Hoosier Heartland Highway and Interstate 25 (both of which could have provided a quick exit).

It is not known if the suspect had a vehicle or where he parked it if he did. Many believe the most logical place to have left a car was the cemetery abutting Ron Logan’s property. This is within close proximity to the location of the bodies and would have been a somewhat short – if treacherous – hike to the bridge. It was reported that a witness who lived near Ron Logan saw a man leaving the cemetery that day. If the suspect drove to the bridge that day, the evidence was likely destroyed when the many volunteers arrived to help the families search.

Every social media platform used by either of the girls was thoroughly analyzed by LE and every contact was interviewed. These platforms included Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, and Twitter. Libby was friends with both Kelsie and her grandparents across all platforms.

Kelsie: “We had to be friends with them, so they could see what we were posting. Um, and I’m sure they checked our messages without us knowing because they have our passwords.”

10 days before the murder, Libby reset her iPhone 6 with the help of her Aunt Tara because of glitches in service (like her screen and/or apps kept freezing up).

The video of BG was recorded with the iPhone’s standard camera app, and the audio was extracted from the video. LE has confirmed that additional audio and video exist.

LE has never released the time the video was taken or discussed if the sequence of events were revealed. They’ve even refused to say how much audio and video exist on the phone (in terms of duration).

On an iPhone 6, videos are interrupted by incoming calls and we know that a call was made by Derrick at 3:11 pm. When the video is interrupted, recording stops and the video is saved to the phone but it doesn’t resume recording when the call ends. The recording may have continued until the phone died if a call didn’t come in while recording. We also don’t know if Libby had her ringer turned off/on at the time. Because LE has stated that BG is the killer, something on the video must confirm it. However, we know it wasn’t the crime itself because Sheriff Leazenby said it was not recorded.

The MHB was constructed with six, small wooden platforms sticking off the side in staggered locations -- which are large enough for two people to stand on. Based on the location of BG in the photo, which was determined by the forked tree visible behind him (located approximately 280 feet from the end of the bridge) and the fifth platform seen behind him (located approximately 220 feet from the bridge), we know he was approximately 60 feet away from the end of the bridge when the video was recorded.

Robert Ives: “The image of the suspect is an image from a video from a cell phone camera at great distance.”

It is believed that Libby was standing at the end of the bridge as Abby approached her, and both girls were aware of the suspect drawing closer to them.

Becky, Mike, and Anna were permitted to watch the video and listen to the audio. Anna said she could hear the audio even after she wasn't able to see anything anymore. And the audio portion of “down the hill” sounds somewhat muffled – as if the microphone is covered or blocked. Anna says the images of BG revealed to the public are the absolute best that can be obtained from the video – even after being enhanced by experts at NASA and Disney.

Robert Ives: “People kept asking… ‘well why don’t they enhance that picture… why don’t they enhance the pixels?’ There’s no pixels to enhance. There aren’t very many pixels there. And, so they did a marvelous job at getting the picture up to the quality of image it is. And I know that’s confused people out in the public. Cause there’s no magic that you know. I mean, you have X number of pixels. Those pixels are of a certain color. It may be that you can enhance the image by adding the contrast or reducing the contrast, but you can’t do anything to change the fact that you’ve got X number of pixels making up the picture. And, as such, you only have certain resolution when you’re dealing with a picture like that.”

ISP has revealed that in the part of audio not released to the public, Abby and Libby can be heard engaging in typical girl talk and discussing the man behind them. The family has also stated that the girls can be heard whispering between themselves and wondering where they would possibly go. Anna told one interviewer that Abby said something like, “well… the path ends here, so we can’t go any farther.”

The bodies of Libby and Abby were located about 170 yards from the end of the bridge and 50 feet from the north bank of the creek.

Deer Creek is somewhat of a misnomer as it resembles more of a river than a creek, and it’s as deep as a river in certain areas. While many parts of the creek are too deep for people to traverse comfortably, there’s an area near a bend located toward the northeast of the bridge that has a sandbar and is shallow enough to cross. Many believe the bend is where the girls crossed over the creek and into Ron Logan’s property on the other side and believe they were likely killed where they were found.

Ron Logan said the path taken -- from the bridge to where their bodies were located -- is difficult to navigate. There is rocky steep terrain, a deep ravine, and woods and thickets. Kelsie told SOC that the girls were found in a valley of sorts. It was unthinkable to RL that the girls would voluntarily make that walk. Someone either forced them to take it or the girls ran from someone who overtook them there.

Robert Ives told SOC the wooded area is by no means completely isolated. In fact, one home located on top of the ridge to the northeast of the bridge has an unobstructed view to where the girls bodies were found. Kelsie believes the girls tried to escape by running through the creek.

Kelsie: “She probably ran through the water and it [the shoe] fell off.”

2:07 pm – Snapchat photo posted
3:11 pm – Derrick called Libby’s phone and she didn’t answer
2:20 – 2:30 pm – the video of BG that produced the still images was filmed (estimation determined by StudioMax – a high end 3D application which calculates time based on light, shadows, time of year and geographical location)

If the suspect was on the bridge at 2:30 pm and the phone call from Derrick went unanswered at 3:11 pm, the crime likely occurred during that 40-minute window. The family received confirmation that the girls were killed that day and were no longer alive throughout the night when people were searching for them. In fact, LE believes the suspect left the area well before dark that afternoon. There is no evidence to suggest the girls were taken to another location before being killed on RL’s property, and LE believes the girls were killed where they were found.

LE has never conclusively stated that a full profile of the DNA of the perpetrator exists. However, they have confirmed that some form of DNA from the crime scene has been collected. As Sgt. Jerry Holeman put it, “We are still working on finding all of the DNA that we have there.” On February 23, Sheriff Leazenby told the media that LE has requested DNA evidence to be fast tracked, but he later backtracked and said he hadn’t intended to confirm or deny the evidence of perpetrator DNA.

Despite the vague references about the presence of DNA, many were asked to give DNA samples in the days and weeks following the murders. The families have all given samples of their DNA samples, and Kelsie says she’s given them DNA three separate times. In addition, the Delphi residents spoken to during the course of the investigation were also asked to give voluntary DNA samples.

Robert Ives: "I’m still stunned by it. To think that we had a crime scene, we had bodies within 24 hours of their death. That we had a video recording and audio recording, I would have thought – and I promise you everybody else thought – we’re never gonna have this much evidence. I mean, there’s… as I say, there’s more. That we have all these facts. Some of them, somewhat unusual. And there’s going to be something about these facts that’s gonna point to somebody. I am, I’m shocked… I’m stunned. When I say that, I don’t mean that I think anybody failed. Many, many great police officers have worked their tails off on this, and it’s just… they're just not finding anything. And, there were promising leads at one time or another. Amazing things… but they didn’t lead to anything. You know, they didn’t lead to a person that was even close to chargeable.”

Paul Holes: "You know as I was monitoring the headlines, uh, as this case was coming more and more prominent in the public domain… umm, it just seemed to continue to remain unsolved. I was a little bit surprised, but I’ve seen that with other cases. And, there’s just so much that goes on behind the scenes with these types of cases, these types of investigations. You know it’s hard to jump to, ya know, a foregone conclusion. Oh! We’re just gonna solve this case. Or, they’re just gonna solve this case right out the gate.”

Anna: “The detectives were like… this is not going to take that long. It’s a small town, somebody’s gonna say something and this is all going to be over soon. I mean, we just… the first couple of weeks, that’s what it felt like. Any day now, ya know… and then all of a sudden, a couple of weeks turned into a couple of months.”

Doug Carter (in response to Kelsie asking him if he was surprised that the video and audio didn’t immediately lead to a suspect): “I was… and I was a little disappointed, probably.”

By March 13, LE had worked more than 13,000 tips and cleared 2,000 of these. The reward fund for information about the killer was up to $224,000.

Despite having several persons of interest, the possibility that this crime could fall into the category of the hardest to solve – random crimes of opportunity committed by a stranger – was beginning to become more and more real.

Thank you again for all this. A lot of the aspects of this case we all hash over here on WS over and over again are pretty much answered in this podcast and in your wonderful notes.

 

[Ozoner]

Or could it mean that the first-issued (OBG) sketch was a sketch of somebody else who happened to be on the trails that day, and not a sketch depicting the man who was on the bridge in the video-still? I personally think that the sketches are of two different people, but that's jmo.

Not blaming LE - as I'm sure they did what they thought was best at the time - but in retrospect it appears that they erred in issuing the OBG sketch (at least w/o issuing a "may appear younger" caveat with it). I think they have kinda-sorta admitted as much. The OBG sketch is now considered "secondary".

If LE had witnesses who thought that the OBG suspect looked younger than the age suggested by an FBI profile, why not say so when they issued the OBG sketch rather than wait until they issued the much-younger-looking NBG sketch two years later? Did the witness who thought OBG was younger than the man depicted by the artist in the OBG sketch not come forward until then? Did LE not believe that particular witness until then? What changed? Just seems odd to me.

Looking at the OBG sketch, it doesn't appear that LE attempted to influence the artist to make it appear that the suspect was young or younger. He certainly doesn't look young to me. In fact, when I first saw the OBG sketch I just assumed that LE had provided some input to the artist to be sure that the sketch at least resembled the man on the bridge. LE was insisting that the man on the bridge was the murderer, so the sketch would have to look something like him. And we know that LE at least provided enough editorial input to have added the imagined hat. Yet the artist msintaibs that LE did not influence the drawing in any way. Hard to reconcile the two statements.

I think that LE believes that both sketches are of the same man. Why else would they say that they think that if/when the actual murderer is caught, he will look like "something between the two" sketches? I find that to be illogical given that LE insists that NBG is now the man on the bridge, and that (to me) the two sketches look nothing alike.

Furthermore, since the April '19 PC LE has suggested a very broad age range for NBG with an upper limit of 40 (which I guess means that the FBI has discounted any earlier profile they developed). Not sure why LE would suggest this upper age limit. There's been no indication (that I've seen, anyway) that LE used something like DNA methylation to contribute to the NBG sketch or to project a possible suspect's age. Again, the artist said that LE had no input at all.

I'm sure that issuing an age range for NBG was intended to narrow the search for a suspect, but I'm not convinced that suggesting such a specific range (being very broad at 18-40, and having an upper limit of 40) won't prove to be a profile / strategy error in the opposite direction (from the OBG sketch issuance). Setting an upper age limit of 40 not only contradicts the OBG sketch, but it risks excluding any suspect over that age (though LE warns that the suspect may in fact look younger than his real age..).

My theoretical LEO POI in my previous post was 43 or 44 I think back in 2017, but may have looked much younger. Being over 40 however would exclude him as a suspect. Given that it's now been over three years and the identification of the murderer remains a mystery, I do still think that if the suspect were (at the time) a local LEO, his occupation would have perhaps provided excellent cover. I hope they identify and catch the killer soon.

All jmo

The comment about BG looking younger than his actual age is a reference to NBG. That comment was made when that sketch of a younger perp was released. At that time, the OBG sketch had already been cast aside; LE stated (or implied) that OBG had been identified and declared that he was no longer a person of interest.

 

[SMK777]

Setting an upper age limit of 40 not only contradicts the OBG sketch, but it risks excluding any suspect over that age (though LE warns that the suspect may in fact look younger than his real age..).

My theoretical LEO POI in my previous post was 43 or 44 I think back in 2017, but may have looked much younger. Being over 40 however would exclude him as a suspect. Given that it's now been over three years and the identification of the murderer remains a mystery, I do still think that if the suspect were (at the time) a local LEO, his occupation would have perhaps provided excellent cover. I hope they identify and catch the killer soon.

Well said. I absolutely agree.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Popping in to ditto the thanks to all of you providing such incredible notes from podcasts, briefings, etc. Really great work, and so appreciated!

I’m still holding out hope for a July arrest. Let us pray so!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[SMK777]

I’m still holding out hope for a July arrest. Let us pray so!

That would be wonderful. Pray and keep hope alive.

 

[pearl]

Can I ask some questions about crime scene investigation procedures for a crime of the magnitude of the murders of Abby and Libby. The following are assumptions I am making because I have no formal knowledge of this. These things just seem common sense to me. Crime scene is discovered. The victims are checked to see if they are alive and are found to be deceased by person discovering the crime scene. Since the victims are deceased, the scene is immediately sealed within crime scene tape and no one further is allowed to enter. LE with original jurisdiction determines to call in the state crime lab. Crime scene is closed until the state crime lab techs arrive to process the scene. Scene is processed by state crime lab personnel with assistance (if needed) by local LE. Crime scene security is tight with only access given to people on a need-to-be-there basis meaning curious LE from local and other jurisdictions just cannot wander through because they are curious. A log is kept of all personnel entering scene. Am I anywhere near how the investigation would have been carried out?

 

[Charlot123]

I am a photographer. That is actually a very astute observation you had.

Layering is more of less what I understand the AI software to do. It takes a snapshot of one's face (in this case), other times it is a license plate for example), adapts the angles and orientation and then eliminates any part of the fuzziness in each individual photo and then AVERAGES (or fills in) from the sections that are clear. The other thing it does is reverse zoom it so to speak to fill in pixel details from the above when it happens to be clear in one section. The theory is that if the upper 10% of the left side of your nose is blurry, there might well be a photo (or frame) that happens to have a few pure pixels that line up perfectly with the edge of your nose (in this example) and are therefore not blurry. .but that tiny piece is pure. Add in 50 more frames and you might get different sections also pure. And then you put the pure sections together.

However, if you only have 48 shaky images in a video, you are not going to get near the detail because if the camera is moving wildly, everything is blurry and is all but lost.

So yes, layering and eliminating the blurry and overly compressed pixels is what they probably tried to do. But again they apparently did not have much to work with.

I understand they also take sharp pictures of people, then heavily .jpg compress them which makes them pixilated and blurry. They then have a computer look and compare the two.. and then repeat the process with 10,000,000 sets of different photos (one shot sharp and one shot pixelated). They instructed the super computer to figure out how to make the sharp picture out of the dull picture. When a computer can do this process in hours.. it is a combination of AI and machine learning and is amazing. Machine learning is why a lot of us will be out of a job in 10 years.

Thank you, @Justice101 . Very interesting. I think the future for us lies in becoming cyborgs. Questions:

1) About layering. Someone processed the loop we saw. This is how 48 frames came up. I bet there are more frames in the original video. Has it all been processed?

 

[Charlot123]

I am a photographer. That is actually a very astute observation you had.

Layering is more of less what I understand the AI software to do. It takes a snapshot of one's face (in this case), other times it is a license plate for example), adapts the angles and orientation and then eliminates any part of the fuzziness in each individual photo and then AVERAGES (or fills in) from the sections that are clear. The other thing it does is reverse zoom it so to speak to fill in pixel details from the above when it happens to be clear in one section. The theory is that if the upper 10% of the left side of your nose is blurry, there might well be a photo (or frame) that happens to have a few pure pixels that line up perfectly with the edge of your nose (in this example) and are therefore not blurry. .but that tiny piece is pure. Add in 50 more frames and you might get different sections also pure. And then you put the pure sections together.

However, if you only have 48 shaky images in a video, you are not going to get near the detail because if the camera is moving wildly, everything is blurry and is all but lost.

So yes, layering and eliminating the blurry and overly compressed pixels is what they probably tried to do. But again they apparently did not have much to work with.

I understand they also take sharp pictures of people, then heavily .jpg compress them which makes them pixilated and blurry. They then have a computer look and compare the two.. and then repeat the process with 10,000,000 sets of different photos (one shot sharp and one shot pixelated). They instructed the super computer to figure out how to make the sharp picture out of the dull picture. When a computer can do this process in hours.. it is a combination of AI and machine learning and is amazing. Machine learning is why a lot of us will be out of a job in 10 years.

- About AI.

Machines can do great work. So far, however, they don’t think in analogies.

Genetic Gedmatch has a program called “Lazarus”. It allows to restore the DNA of deceased people using their living relatives’ DNAs. The more, the better. The principle is not unlike that of layering.

You have to have the person’s child for it. 50% of the child’s DNA comes from that parent. Then they superimpose the DNA’s of the person’s other relatives, find overlapping genetic pieces and slowly fill in empty spots by using DNA from the sides of these pieces. So it is the DNA that is “layered”.

I jumped from thinking about Lazarus to layered photos. I know that the thinking was in images, lines of relatives’ DNAs, and then suddenly, a photoshop with this function on computer screen.

My point is, computers don’t think this way. They don’t leap sideways. They don’t think in both words and images. This is why I believe that merging human thinking with computers’ advantages is the future of evolution.

- More about DNA layering.

Many assume that potentially incomplete, DNA from the CS ixists. Can Lazarus be used for partial DNA?

My Heritage and other sites use DNA imputation programs, can they help here?

DNA.LAND

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The comment about BG looking younger than his actual age is a reference to NBG. That comment was made when that sketch of a younger perp was released. At that time, the OBG sketch had already been cast aside; LE stated (or implied) that OBG had been identified and declared that he was no longer a person of interest.

I did understand, that both sketches are remaining in the play, even by saying, that one day in the future it could be possible, the real perp's face would turn out to be a mix of sketch #1 and sketch #2. MOO

 

[on the case]

I like reading along.
I recall so much analysis on this guy that it made my head spin.

Is that a hat, or a full head of hair?
What's that, a billy club going down his right thigh, inside his jeans?
Does he have a leather work pouch?
That HAS to be a gun outline, say, his right side, inner jacket pocket!
Around his neck? A scarf? A drinking straw? A plastic bag? A grey hoodie stickin' out?
Does the dude have a limp? Or is he high steppin' the gaps between those ties?

And then there's the age thingy. This particular frame, for me, gives him a boyish look of say, 22 to 27 years old!

Then again, if I stare long enough at that head of hair, I begin to see a coon skin cap, maybe a fox head hat, or some such wild animal with a pointy nose looking back at me.

See that baby face or what?

Clic the pic to expand

I totally agree. He has a baby face and that first sketch looks nothing like this picture. The second sketch doesn't either but it sure looks like the guy I'm seeing in this picture's brother.

 

[Ozoner]

I did understand, that both sketches are remaining in the play, even by saying, that one day in the future it could be possible, the real perp's face would turn out to be a mix of sketch #1 and sketch #2. MOO

I interpreted that comment as being a silly, off-the-cuff remark meant to minimize LE's blunder in pushing the OBG sketch for two years. The NBG sketch is the one that matters. The OBG sketch can be disregarded. LE has stated very clearly that the man depicted in the OBG sketch is no longer a person of interest.

 

[stattlich1]

If the man on the bridge is the murderer, and the first sketch showing what appears to be an older man is to be disregarded. And if the new sketch is purported to be the murderer, meaning, the man on the bridge.

Then it stands to reason and logic that the man on the bridge is younger, and not older, yes?

moo

 

[Yemelyan]

Can I ask some questions about crime scene investigation procedures for a crime of the magnitude of the murders of Abby and Libby. The following are assumptions I am making because I have no formal knowledge of this. These things just seem common sense to me. Crime scene is discovered. The victims are checked to see if they are alive and are found to be deceased by person discovering the crime scene. Since the victims are deceased, the scene is immediately sealed within crime scene tape and no one further is allowed to enter. LE with original jurisdiction determines to call in the state crime lab. Crime scene is closed until the state crime lab techs arrive to process the scene. Scene is processed by state crime lab personnel with assistance (if needed) by local LE. Crime scene security is tight with only access given to people on a need-to-be-there basis meaning curious LE from local and other jurisdictions just cannot wander through because they are curious. A log is kept of all personnel entering scene. Am I anywhere near how the investigation would have been carried out?

I think your assumptions are pretty close, @pearl

You may find this a useful read:
Chapter 8: Crime Scene Management – Introduction to Criminal Investigation: Processes, Practices and Thinking

It describes how first responders transition from assessing immediate risk to people's safety/life to investigative mode. Of particular interest to those of us interested in the Delphi case would be what is called the "path of contamination," how quickly investigators determine who has potentially contaminated the scene and how they deal with it.

I would note that in the Delphi case, though we do not officially know who the very first responders on scene were, we do know from Carter's and Riley's statements that it was immediately known to be homicide "by the way they (Abby and Libby) were found." We also know from official sources that the scene was locked down until the FBI's evidence recovery team arrived to process it just a few hours later. We know that the FBI did so with assistance from the ISP crime lab, and we know that they were on scene continuously for the next 24 hours.

I don't think we can assume that many, or indeed any, Carroll County deputies or Delphi officers were inside the perimeter of the crime scene doing evidence recovery work, to address a recent speculation about a LEO committing these murders.

 

[JnRyan]

I would note that in the Delphi case, though we do not officially know who the very first responders on scene were, we do know from Carter's and Riley's statements that it was immediately known to be homicide "by the way they (Abby and Libby) were found." We also know from official sources that the scene was locked down until the FBI's evidence recovery team arrived to process it just a few hours later. We know that the FBI did so with assistance from the ISP crime lab, and we know that they were on scene continuously for the next 24 hours.

I had forgotten those statements from ISP. That it might be obvious both were deceased I could understand, but they could have died from exposure. (I know of one acquaintance who suffered hypothermia while out extensively in high 50/low 60 degree temps, so it is possible at 40 degree temps.) Yet ISP states it was immediately known to be a homicide. I'm not a crime scene tech or LE investigator, but I wouldn't think strangulation would be immediately known. After strangulation, my thoughts conjure up all manner of what they first saw that I wouldn't care to speculate on here.