Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[St. Anthony2017]

Thank you CuJenn for the excellent summary and post; so helpful.
Dr. Katherine Brown's comments stand out to me the most, emphasizing the rare nature of a dual child abduction.

I have no doubt in my mind the Evansdale and Delphi cases are related.
The thing I'm trying to figure out, is how the Perp knew the homeowners in the surrounding area were not at home? There *must* be a connection those homeowners - no?

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think he regularly hung out in the woods taking photos so maybe he saw that no one was home that day.

 

[Ozoner]

If the man on the bridge is the murderer, and the first sketch showing what appears to be an older man is to be disregarded. And if the new sketch is purported to be the murderer, meaning, the man on the bridge.

Then it stands to reason and logic that the man on the bridge is younger, and not older, yes?

moo

Yes—18 to 40 at the time of the 2019 press conference, so 16 to 38 at the time of the murders.

 

[SMK777]

I think he regularly hung out in the woods taking photos so maybe he saw that no one was home that day.

Could he have had a plan to abduct them and take them to his car, but then something happened: Liberty’s phone rang, or he was spooked at seeing a car, and they made a run for it, and he had to kill them there, whether or not anyone was home? ( of course this doesn’t make sense if you think about him having the time to stage them).

 

[TheVisual]

What do you mean by LE has not given us the whole thing? I take it you’re an expert on layering processes beyond NASA and Disney’s expertise.

No, of course I'm not but why couldn't they just give us the clip? I feel like Gray Hughes did a better job of giving us the sequence. They did it after he did and he didn't have the whole clip to work with like LE did! I believe they aren't giving us all of it. JMO

 

[St. Anthony2017]

This always makes me think:

1. They have their suspect but can’t pin it on him.
2. If at some point there are rumors that they’re about to close in on him, he’ll flee the country.

I think he thinks he got away with the murders and will strike again to prove he can get away with it. If they find out who he is and he flees the country he can be extradited back. I doubt if many of our POI ‘s even have a passport and especially now because of Covid he is trapped in the U.S.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

You mean that would keep him from just going on the run?

He’s not on the run. He’s in another state waiting or hunting for his next victims imo.

 

[Ozoner]

Thank you CuJenn for the excellent summary and post; so helpful.
Dr. Katherine Brown's comments stand out to me the most, emphasizing the rare nature of a dual child abduction.

I have no doubt in my mind the Evansdale and Delphi cases are related.
The thing I'm trying to figure out, is how the Perp knew the homeowners in the surrounding area were not at home? There *must* be a connection those homeowners - no?

Amateur opinion and speculation

You're making a big assumption. It's just as likely that he hadn't noticed the house at all or decided that was too far away to be of concern.

 

[SMK777]

I think he thinks he got away with the murders and will strike again to prove he can get away with it. If they find out who he is and he flees the country he can be extradited back. I doubt if many of our POI ‘s even have a passport and especially now because of Covid he is trapped in the U.S.

That’s true. I was actually thinking of his trying to drive to Canada or Mexico but if they were looking for his vehicle that wouldn’t be so easy, either.

For some reason I often think he’s not a serial killer and that this was his sole crime; other times I think he was also the Evansdale killer. I just wish he’d be arrested. Those 2 girls haunt me, as I know they do many others.

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess I meant they may feel he knows the suspect, and are trying to get him to talk.

Possible but RL was arrested because he violated his probation. If they were trying to get him to talk wouldn’t it be preferable to not arrest him?

He was released early 2 1/2 years ago, January 2018. Given LE has consistently asked for a tip from the public since day one, that last piece of the puzzle they need, it doesn’t seem as though RL held the key.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention

 

[SMK777]

You're making a big assumption. It's just as likely that he hadn't noticed the house at all or decided that was too far away to be of concern.

I’ve looked at maps of the murder scene but never saw the 2 houses marked. Perhaps it’s possible that he didn’t think they were a concern?

 

[SMK777]

[

Possible but RL was arrested because he violated his probation. If they were trying to get him to talk wouldn’t it be preferable to not arrest him?

He was released early 2 1/2 years ago, January 2018. Given LE has consistently asked for a tip from the public since day one, that last piece of the puzzle they need, it doesn’t seem as though RL held the key.

CALL 6: Delphi property owner on home detention

Good points. Well taken. Since he’s out my thinking no longer applies. (I had thought along the lines of if you tell us who he is or what you saw, we’ll release you. Police have been known to jail people for this reason.)

 

[rosesfromangels]

You're making a big assumption. It's just as likely that he hadn't noticed the house at all or decided that was too far away to be of concern.

Fair enough. It would be interesting see how close these homes are to the CS, and how visible. That would better confirm or refute my speculation.

 

[MistyWaters]

No, of course I'm not but why couldn't they just give us the clip? I feel like Gray Hughes did a better job of giving us the sequence. They did it after he did and he didn't have the whole clip to work with like LE did! I believe they aren't giving us all of it. JMO

LE doesn’t require amateur detectives to analyze evidence and the killer doesn’t need to know what is the state of evidence that LE has or doesn’t have, which they would if it was released to the public hoping for our help. The truth is, they don’t need our assistance as LE has access to unlimited professional contacts, experts in various capacities who assist police departments far beyond the caliber of avid you-tubers.

But if you or I know somebody with a connection to Delphi who alerts our suspicious for any number of reasons and even remotely matches the photo/video and voice, we’d submit a tip, right? That’s what LE needs from the general public, nothing more.

 

[MistyWaters]

Fair enough. It would be interesting see how close these homes are to the CS, and how visible. That would better confirm or refute my speculation.

I’ve watched this aerial video several times and me personally, I doubt any property owner would’ve had clear sight lines to the crime scene.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

We're seeking the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS/DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi, that was abandoned on the east side of Delphi County Road 300, northwest to the Hoosier Heartland Highway, between the hours of noon to five on February 14, 2017. If you were parked there or know who was parked there, please contact the officers at the command post at the Delphi City Building."

The physical address of the old CPS/DCS building is 6931 West 300 North. The podcast clarifies that LE has reason to believe a car was parked there on the 13th -- not the 14th as Carter misstated. The podcast points out that this information is likely due to new information because LE had previously said (on February 2018) that they had no reason to believe the suspect was parked in a vehicle nearby because they had no information on a vehicle.

May 7, 2019
Sgt. Kim Riley clarified that LE had determined the suspect likely had a vehicle after reviewing many tips. It was also clarified that the vehicle was not parked in the empty lot at the building but parked along the roadside (which may be why it attracted the attention of a witness, if it did so).

By getting the date wrong, and improper reference of what had been abandoned, Carter messed up and confused that section about the vehicle so badly it wasn't until recently I realized they were asking about the driver and not the car.

Last week I was goofing around on Google Maps and was surprised to find that the abandoned building was fully visible in a July 2015 view from Hoosier Heartland Highway. That is the same road as State Road 25, BTW. Two different names. I dragged the map sideways 90+ degrees from the highway view and all of a sudden there was a ground level perspective of the abandoned building, including relationship to County Road 300 and Freedom Bridge.

From the map I believe Bridge Guy strategically parked on the County Road 300 fringe and not in the back lot. You can see how close and exposed that lot was to State Road 25. Hundreds of cars perhaps some with dash cams would have driven past. More logical to park on the other side and risk an occasional car on County Road 300. The only danger I see there is the beige Anderson building and a potential surveillance camera. You can click on "Street View" at top left of the picture and change view to August 2018. Now the abandoned building has been torn town and the beige building visible. Gray Hughes had an October 2019 video showing the surveillance camera on the left corner of that building. I'm not sure the camera was there in February 2017:

Google Maps

 

[Awsi Dooger]

My sense is Delphi sent the case out for review during 2018 and consensus feedback was that the initial sketch was wrongly demoted. IMO, it was demoted only because of that horrendous flaw of relying on eyes and subjectivity, to make every case completely unique instead of an example with a much greater subset. Law enforcement used the awful reliance on visual subjectivity of Libby's video to conclude Bridge Guy had to be older. Therefore why do we care about this young sketch?

There was a great post many pages back regarding age distribution of this type of offender. Absolutely. It needed to be the Delphi focus all along. Allow the largest slice of the pie to work for you, not against you. When I lived in Las Vegas I'd use simple techniques like that all the time. For example, there was a proposition called the "Grand Salami." It was the combined goals of all the hockey games that day, and also a separate one of all points scored in every NBA game that day. I didn't care about anything except how the NBA "Grand Salami" stacked up to the league average. If it was above by any margin I'd wager under. If it was under by any margin I'd bet over. It was incredible how well that worked. I had many friends who were trying to dissect every game every day toward whether they figured high or low. Finally many of them reluctantly gave up that jumbled approach in favor of simple averaging, and collecting. We collected so much the sportsbook continued to offer the NHL version but got rid of the NBA prop after one season.

Once Delphi realized the young sketch was valuable they apparently scrambled to backfit any connecting information, which led to the car. They became more of a believer in local when there were reports of the car zipping around the area as if he knew what he was doing. I'd like to know if those reports meant other trails in the area. He could be merely scoping one trail then another until something clicks.

I would hope Delphi law enforcement prioritized and secured every bit of video from Main Street and everywhere else in town on February 13, just in case it was needed later. I'm not confident they did that. Otherwise if they have several suspects in mind you would think it would be a simple matter of whether or not any of them could be tied to a vehicle of that make, model and color.

Going back to probability again, if Delphi has suspects in mind I think they are likely wrong. In true crime stranger cases there is such amazing value to none of the above.

 

[rosesfromangels]

.....

They became more of a believer in local when there were reports of the car zipping around the area as if he knew what he was doing. .

Respectfully snipped for focus and response.
I missed this. Where did this come from? That's huge. Delivery people zip through town....

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Awsi Dooger]

The property within view is the one at the end of the dirt road that goes under the bridge, reportedly owned by occupants who were snowbirds, is it not? Both the crime scene and that property appear to be at about the same elevation as well.

There was a direct line of sight from home to the crime scene. But only from one area at back left of the home. Bridge Guy can't avoid every risk. As others have mentioned he may have been fully aware of the home but didn't allow it to override the other variables working in his favor. The home is not on the same level as crime scene. It is much higher, atop a ridge overlooking the creek. The girls were stuck on private property in a remote ravine-like area at a location that cannot be seen from any point on the bridge.

Here is a photo that the late bitterbeatpoet posted on Reddit last November. It is the perspective from the Sanders home atop the ridge toward the crime scene area. This is the home Robert Ives was referring to. I believe I have posted this photo here previously. The bodies location would have been slightly further right than the photo catches, but perfectly visible if the camera had aimed there intentionally. The people within the creek are Anthony Greeno and crew. The homeowner was chastising them to get out of there. They own that property. BTW, Greeno's former girlfriend really unloaded on him in a new 2 hour YouTube video that is nothing but her rambling about what a louse he is.

Imgur

Thus is a photo I took from the other direction, depicting the various elevations of the creek bank and the ridge above the gravel road. Sanders home would be just out of view atop the ridge to the left:

Imgur

 

[TheVisual]

LE doesn’t require amateur detectives to analyze evidence and the killer doesn’t need to know what is the state of evidence that LE has or doesn’t have, which they would if it was released to the public hoping for our help. The truth is, they don’t need our assistance as LE has access to unlimited professional contacts, experts in various capacities who assist police departments far beyond the caliber of avid you-tubers.

But if you or I know somebody with a connection to Delphi who alerts our suspicious for any number of reasons and even remotely matches the photo/video and voice, we’d submit a tip, right? That’s what LE needs from the general public, nothing more.

I do and I have since I first saw BG's picture. He has been swabbed.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

No, of course I'm not but why couldn't they just give us the clip? I feel like Gray Hughes did a better job of giving us the sequence. They did it after he did and he didn't have the whole clip to work with like LE did! I believe they aren't giving us all of it. JMO

I know LE isn’t giving us all of it. They said they weren’t giving us all of it. They said this was the clearest part they had to give us. Abby’s mother said that’s the best part of it according to the podcast that was so kindly summarized for us.
For a long time I could not understand why LE didn’t release more of that video. Then, rather recently, it dawned on me that BG is walking toward the camera so you think the picture would improve. But if it did improve, I feel pretty sure LE would show us a big ol’ close-up of the killer. Now I’ve been pretty critical of the investigation and some decisions LE has made over the three years, but I do believe that if they had a close-up they would have shared it. I can only conclude then that, like or not, that short little video, is the best they’ve got. You can’t doctor it or alter it too much because it is potential evidence.