Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[sleuth782]

Good point.
IDK - maybe clever Libby tossed/dropped it intentionally when she knew the situation was dire. Hard to say.

Amateur opinion and speculation

You might be right, though my take is slightly different, but admittedly it is just a guess.

Libby's shoe being found on the south side of the creek indicates one thing -- that things were hurried along. This might involve some kind of struggle, an attempted escape, or simply prodding from BG to hurry up.

In such an environment, I believe a phone accidentally being dropped is quite possible, especially as the video of BG seems to be surreptitiously taken. Perhaps the phone was quickly hidden away in a loose pocket? Also, a few points near DTH appear to be quite steep from videos others have posted. Libby sliding/stumbling a bit and losing her phone seems plausible.

Another potential is that Libby tried to make a break for it to use her phone to call 911. She loses her shoe in the process and BG quickly knocks the phone out of her hands before she can call.

Some have suggested BG maybe threw the shoe, but I simply don't think that does anything for him...just potentially adds DNA and places searchers on the correct trail for the girls.

 

[Ozoner]

I am unshakable in my belief that he 100% knew RL"s schedule that day, and that is the link that will solve this case.

How can you be 100% certain with no evidence? Do you know how large RL's property was or how far the murder scene was from RL's house? This didn't occur in a suburban back yard. BG may not have had any idea that he was on RL's property.

 

[BNA]

There has been some discussion about how much planning went into this. Let us take a look at the potential risks incurred by BG of being spotted during the crime and what steps may have been taken to mitigate them.

1. Spotted by someone heading north to south along the bridge trail. Mitigation essentially boils down to checking over his shoulder as he gets to the dead-end of the trail just before he commits the acts. (Less likely, imo, is a spotter or trail cam along the trail, north of the bridge.)
2. Spotted by someone along the south end of the bridge (property owner, or someone taking private driveway to one of the houses). Potential mitigation is pre-scouting each home some time prior making sure no one was home. Is it possible to see someone depart the private drive from the north end of the bridge? Additional mitigation (and less likely) are having a lookout along the private drive to the south (to make sure no one is coming home) or some kind of trail cam. Perhaps there is some line of sight from the bridge to part of the private drive to know if a car is in the immediate vicinity? Additionally, if BG knew the whereabouts of property owners near the south end, this could mitigate his risk.
3. Ron Logan property. I'm not sure if there exists a clear line of sight from RL's house to the crime scene. However, if the perp knew he was not home, that would be one more source of risk reduced.
4. The existence of security cameras at any home near the trail or along the trail. Could have walked in/around the trails before to ensure no security cameras, or at least his particular path contained none.
5. Kayakers or fisherman on the river. Not a high risk in February, but one potential risk.

I think the crime scene being near, but not so visible, to the bridge or other properties indicates the perp intentionally wanted to reduce the chance of being seen, and able to complete the crime quickly.

IMO, the commonly believed path BG took is suggestive that he knew the general layout of the trails reasonably well and understood the lines of sight involved. I think he looked over his shoulder as he arrived to the south end of the bridge. I think he knew no one was home at the south end...perhaps walked by there earlier in the day. (Related to new BG sketch?) I think he accepted the slight risk that someone would arrive to one of the south end properties during the narrow time window (only a few minutes probably) between DTH and the crime scene. He may have believed there was no line of sight from RL's house to the crime scene. IMO, BG did some planning to reduce the biggest sources of risk and did some kind of walk through of the area to understand.

However, I don't think this requires any "mastermind" level thinking. It boils down to "end of bridge is isolated and dead-end" and considering "who could see me in this area?"

One last outside of the box thought...a drone could be helpful for scouting the area days before the crime and potentially as a lookout on the day of the crime. Not saying one was used (or even likely), but just one more possibility.

Great post. I agree he is no mastermind with his *advertiser censored* erectus level of frontal lobe development. He would be more focused on hunting and avoiding being hunted. More base instincts; a troglodyte. I am unshakable in my belief that he 100% knew RL"s schedule that day, and that is the link that will solve this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I know this is creepy....but I see his approach on the bridge much like the final scene of Silence of the Lambs, where Hannibal Lecter is walking thru the crowd, following the "friend" he is having for dinner.

IOW, maybe a hunt. but one he was savoring.

 

[rosesfromangels]

How can you be 100% certain with no evidence? Do you know how large RL's property was or how far the murder scene was from RL's house? This didn't occur in a suburban back yard. BG may not have had any idea that he was on RL's property.

From the posts upthread, RL’s house is described as being within Visual range. That is partially what I am basing this amateur speculation and opinion on...as well as the fact that during the fairly narrow timeframe RL was out and about, a murder occurred adjacent to his home. I don’t consider that coincidence. Not at all.

opinion. Speculation.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I know this is creepy....but I see his approach on the bridge much like the final scene of Silence of the Lambs, where Hannibal Lecter is walking thru the crowd, following the "friend" he is having for dinner.

IOW, maybe a hunt. but one he was savoring.

Well that invokes a whole new level of nightmare, doesn’t it.

The word “savor” is an important concept here. He didn’t have enough time to stay and dwell over his demented act. But whether he was in the search party is another matter. I wonder what LE thinks about a Perp who causes such devastation in such a brief period of time, and seemingly doesn’t linger to “savor” the act.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

This is something odd. Probably coincidence. The first Location is From a mineral map. Apparently the mineral alum is at there. This is the website. https://www.mindat.org/loc-214247 and coordinates
40°35′20.7″N 86°38′34.2″W / 40.589083°N 86.642833°W / 40.589083; -86.642833

Murder site:
40° 33' 34'' North , 86° 41' 39'' West
Latitude & Longitude (decimal): 40.55960,-86.6943
How far off would these spots be? Is there a possible connection to say the deal with CSX? I know soil contamination might derail the deal. Would a mineral being there impact something?
It just seems odd, but maybe the locations are miles apart. Thought I'd throw it out there.

This is interesting. From what I understand, aluminum deposit is for future prospectors, and when I googled “aluminum in Indiana”, I found nothing. Gypsum, lime, yes, aluminum, no.

It might be a tiny, non commercial, deposit, or something more serious. Anyhow, the land bearing this deposit would cost something, one assumes.

It would be interesting to find out whose land the deposit is on. What if it belongs to RL? Then any outrage on his territory could have been an attempt to make an old man sell his land?

 

[sunshineray]

I've got a question for someone more local. Was it out of place and odd that Delphi's mayor just stepped down to become a Deputy County Prosecutor? Why would a duly elected mayor not fulfill his elected term? Is this something more common in a rural area? If that happened where I live it would be a huge deal that he didn't finish his term.

I don't know, is it possible he'll be appointed a judge or the County Prosecutor will be, to replace Judge who also resigned?

 

[Thelastleg]

From the posts upthread, RL’s house is described as being within Visual range. That is partially what I am basing this amateur speculation and opinion on...as well as the fact that during the fairly narrow timeframe RL was out and about, a murder occurred adjacent to his home. I don’t consider that coincidence. Not at all.

opinion. Speculation.

Wow, I didn't know that. I was always under the impression RLs House was not in visual range but the Snowbirds house had a clear view, even though the crime scene was in a dip. Thanks

 

[Jax49]

Wow, I didn't know that. I was always under the impression RLs House was not in visual range but the Snowbirds house had a clear view, even though the crime scene was in a dip. Thanks

I was always under the same impression - that the CS was not visible from RL's house. I've searched back thru this thread and my opinion hasn't changed. Maybe I missed it?

 

[Andreee]

Wow, I didn't know that. I was always under the impression RLs House was not in visual range but the Snowbirds house had a clear view, even though the crime scene was in a dip. Thanks

From everything I read, RL's house was not visible from the crime scene. But I could be wrong.

 

[Ozoner]

From the posts upthread, RL’s house is described as being within Visual range. That is partially what I am basing this amateur speculation and opinion on...as well as the fact that during the fairly narrow timeframe RL was out and about, a murder occurred adjacent to his home. I don’t consider that coincidence. Not at all.

opinion. Speculation.

Wow, I didn't know that. I was always under the impression RLs House was not in visual range but the Snowbirds house had a clear view, even though the crime scene was in a dip. Thanks

From everything I read, RL's house was not visible from the crime scene. But I could be wrong.

Ron Logan's lot is 40 acres—bigger than some entire subdivisions—and was heavily wooded. It is not flat ground, either. (A square 40-acre lot would be 1/4 mile X 1/4 mile.)
Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies
Judging from the maps and aerial photos that have been posted, RL's house was at the front of the parcel, and the murder scene was at the back. The house would not have been visible from the murder scene.

 

[stattlich1]

From everything I read, RL's house was not visible from the crime scene. But I could be wrong.

If the house on google maps is the one I think belongs to RL, there's really no reason to suspect RL would know what was going, or see what was going on, IF he were home. It's over a thousand feet away from where the girls were found, but even more, its through woods, and down in a ravine.

In my opinion, RL could have been sitting on his front porch drinking tea and would have had no idea. He could have been watering the lawn in the back yard and not seen a thing.

I do think the killer could easily have escaped through the cemetery, and driven right past RL's home on the way out though.

However, it's my opinion that the idea BG knew RL wasn't going to be home has nothing to do with the location of his house. I don't necessarily subscribe to such belief though. I'd be more inclined to think the killer knew the folks that lived closest to the final crime scene, back the lane that goes under MHB, were not home.

 

[Gracie55]

I

This is interesting. From what I understand, aluminum deposit is for future prospectors, and when I googled “aluminum in Indiana”, I found nothing. Gypsum, lime, yes, aluminum, no.

It might be a tiny, non commercial, deposit, or something more serious. Anyhow, the land bearing this deposit would cost something, one assumes.

It would be interesting to find out whose land the deposit is on. What if it belongs to RL? Then any outrage on his territory could have been an attempt to make an old man sell his land?

I submitted the thought to the tip line in case there's a connection. It's probably too far-fetched for them but you never know. At least it's outside the box. I think there's something we're missing. I don't even remember how I stumbled into this. I might have been searching gold deposits or something and seen the little pickaxes on the map. When I clicked the pickax marker the coordinates came up. I remembered those from a map somebody posted since I brought the coordinates up on google earth to study the terrain. I am not sure why I think it but there's something at or near the location that factors in. It could be the alum/mineral potential. It rattled me a little when I noticed the coordinate similarity. I just can't quite connect it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Wow, I didn't know that. I was always under the impression RLs House was not in visual range but the Snowbirds house had a clear view, even though the crime scene was in a dip. Thanks

My apologies - you could be absolutely right!
The point I am trying to make is that he certainly seemed to possess alot of knowledge about the homeowners in the adjacent areas to the CS. That's local knowledge, intimate knowledge IWT.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Ron Logan's lot is 40 acres—bigger than some entire subdivisions—and was heavily wooded. It is not flat ground, either. (A square 40-acre lot would be 1/4 mile X 1/4 mile.)
Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies
Judging from the maps and aerial photos that have been posted, RL's house was at the front of the parcel, and the murder scene was at the back. The house would not have been visible from the murder scene.

Thanks. I was wrong on that point, and thank you everyone for calling that out. God knows we don't need any misinformation with a case where we know so little already. This is the second time I have been wrong on this case recently. I thought July was going to bring us an arrest. Dang it.

Given this terrain, what about sound carrying?
I'm still digging in on the notion he knew RL's movements aforehand.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[IceIce9]

DBM

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I had never checked out Reddit before on the Delphi case. What did surprise me was the direct link to the Websleuths scanner thread. We are so careful not to bring the Scanner information forward and it was there for the whole world to see. So it had to be a WS member who put it there.

 

[Ozoner]

Thanks. I was wrong on that point, and thank you everyone for calling that out. God knows we don't need any misinformation with a case where we know so little already. This is the second time I have been wrong on this case recently. I thought July was going to bring us an arrest. Dang it.

Given this terrain, what about sound carrying?
I'm still digging in on the notion he knew RL's movements aforehand.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Sound would not carry very well in that uneven, wooded terrain. RL would not have heard anything even if he had been outside .

I am not a hunter, but this topic is often discussed on hunting forums. Even the loudest whistles would barely make it from the murder scene to RL's house, and that would be on level ground. From down in a depression where these murders occurred, there would be no chance of anyone hearing anything. It's unlikely anything could even be heard from the snowbirds' back yard, which was closer.

 

[IceIce9]

I had never checked out Reddit before on the Delphi case. What did surprise me was the direct link to the Websleuths scanner thread. We are so careful not to bring the Scanner information forward and it was there for the whole world to see. So it had to be a WS member who put it there.

There are many WS members that are also on Reddit. I see links back to WS there from time to time.

 

[MistyWaters]

I've got a question for someone more local. Was it out of place and odd that Delphi's mayor just stepped down to become a Deputy County Prosecutor? Why would a duly elected mayor not fulfill his elected term? Is this something more common in a rural area? If that happened where I live it would be a huge deal that he didn't finish his term.

I don't know, is it possible he'll be appointed a judge or the County Prosecutor will be, to replace Judge who also resigned?

Well I’m not local so this is just my opinion but the requirements for the role of Mayor of any community of less than 3,000 is far lower in significance and salary compared to a job of chief deputy prosecutor, which requires a law degree. And as job openings of chief deputy prosecutors do not come by every day, I think it’d be impossible for Evans to time it with fulfilling his term as Mayor. This may be the unoccupied position vacated earlier by Ives, don’t know for sure.

Sometimes it’s a matter of who you know!
"In high school I actually got to intern at the prosecutors office thinking I would become an attorney and then I had the opportunity to work for Prosecutor McLeland when he was in private practice and I was straight out of law school," said Evans.

It was chance Evans said he couldn't pass up and stepping down as mayor was a bitter sweet decision.“
Delphi mayor resigns, takes another position

At 30 or so years old without many years of legal practise under his belt, I doubt he’s ready to become a judge or chief prosecutor although it does appear he has a bright future ahead of him. I could be wrong, but Judges in Carroll County I think are elected. However this appears an excellent opportunity for him to move forward in his chosen field so he can put his law degree to good use while continuing to reside in his home community but beyond that, I can’t imagine it has any direct connection to the Delphi murders of Libby and Abby.

JMO