I think this was in regard to the previous day. Kelsi was going out with her boyfriend and friends and Libby asked if they could go too. Kelsi has spoken of her regret in not agreeing to this, but that at the time she didn't want her kid sister hanging around with them. On the day of the murder, if I remember correctly, Kelsie dropped them off en route to her visiting her boyfriend and then going to work.
Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126
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I think this was in regard to the previous day. Kelsi was going out with her boyfriend and friends and Libby asked if they could go too. Kelsi has spoken of her regret in not agreeing to this, but that at the time she didn't want her kid sister hanging around with them. On the day of the murder, if I remember correctly, Kelsie dropped them off en route to her visiting her boyfriend and then going to work.
This is why the Snapchat angle is so heavily invested in by a lot of people. I see it as more that IF the girls had planned to meet someone, that it was acknowledged that the girls weren't able to give an exact time of their arrival at the trail. This is why I think Abby on the bridge may be the notification that she was there.
The person who arranged to meet Abby could have said he wants to see her so much that she's worth waiting for, so he's happy to hang around. I don't know the usual way days panned out at the Germans, but I would think it unlikely the girls would go early in the day. They will also have worked out the best time to ask for a lift, when refusal is less likely.
They may have planned to ask Kelsi, thus giving a time period for arrival at the trail of around a couple of hours at most. She'd refused to let them go out with her the day before, so in a normal sister relationship, it's quite likely Kelsie would feel or be told to feel that she said no yesterday, so she should say yes today.
It was also the snow day, so I think a fair bit of manipulation was available to the girls, I'm not saying that in a horrible way. But they could say "We've been stuck inside and need some fresh air/to take some photos/to make the most of the nice weather/it would get us out of being under your feet/it's only for a little while/we're busy next weekend and this is the only chance to have a hike for ages etc.
D
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My thoughts are: why would you do quasi a headstand (by Abby/Libby) to visit the MHB area and get there immediately and now? To take some photos of the bridge or the trail only? Why were these photos so important to take on February 13th around noon? Ridiculous, for my feeling, when you get the opportunity for taking the umpteen photos on another day more easily perhaps. I've been a teenager too (sometime in the past, you wouldn't think to be possible), interested in the other sex and I think, there was more to this sudden trip to MHB area. Whatever, the girls met their evil murderer and wouldn't have expected "a creepy guy" and a deadly danger - why should they have, poor teenagers? - If BG stalked them or not and met them or not, won't be the most important question, if he is caught finally. MOOThere have been a couple of interviews (minimum) with BP regarding what she knew about the girls doings the evening before and morning of their murder.
The girls painted and made silly singing videos. They woke up a little late because they stayed up so long, like teens typically do.
They had banana pancakes for breakfast, and did filing for BP . BP has an appraisal business.
It was then that Libby asked for a ride to the bridge, but BP declined. She had to work.
Then Libby asked Kelsi if she would take them and go with.
Kelsi said no. Several times.
Finally , she agreed to take them and told them she would drop them off , but she wanted to spend time with her boyfriend before work, so they would need to arrange a ride home.
This is when BP gave permission.
There is a bit of confusion as to whether or not the girls asked DG for a ride home before they left, or if it was in the process of getting to the trail.
Regardless, it seems that there was about 90 minutes from the time they dropped were dropped off before DG began to call them to let them know he was almost there to pick them up.
90 minutes
I put this out there to help fill in some of the blanks about what they did before.
AMOO JMO
EBM to correct grammar
D
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If noone (Becky, Kelsie) should have had a second thought, the girls had to go as they were; spiffed up or not. Experience by me, 55 years ago.
jillybean51
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They may have been expecting someone completely different , if BG was posing online as a boy.Therefore Creepy Guy would still apply.
Justice101
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Based on what I see and have read and totally my opinion, here is what I believe:
1) This was a random opportunity crime. He would never have knowingly tried to abduct 2 kids at once unless all the stars aligned. Yes, he was generally stalking... but this opportunity fell into his lap the way it naturally set itself up.
2) He knew the trail well and knew how to trap them and attack them and then get out almost unseen. He is not local but was local.
3) The police probably have 3 or 4 people who are not "suspects" yet but that they do not have enough facts and information to rule them out...nor enough evidence to charge them.
4) This crime will only be solved when the perpetrator strikes again, and makes a mistake this time.
Just 100% my opinion based on what (little) I know.
1) This was a random opportunity crime. He would never have knowingly tried to abduct 2 kids at once unless all the stars aligned. Yes, he was generally stalking... but this opportunity fell into his lap the way it naturally set itself up.
2) He knew the trail well and knew how to trap them and attack them and then get out almost unseen. He is not local but was local.
3) The police probably have 3 or 4 people who are not "suspects" yet but that they do not have enough facts and information to rule them out...nor enough evidence to charge them.
4) This crime will only be solved when the perpetrator strikes again, and makes a mistake this time.
Just 100% my opinion based on what (little) I know.
StarryStarryNight
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Do I think it’s possible the girls wanted to go to the bridge to meet somebody? Yes. Do I think that’s probable? No.
As far as our discussion here on WS, it’s like we’re all looking at the same abstract painting but seeing different things. Some of us see a field of daffodils and others see a family of giraffes. Some see the girls’ actions as indicating the girls were trying very hard to get to a clandestine meeting with some unknown person. I, and some others, see the girls’ actions as a typical day off of school by two young teens, who don’t drive, and have grown bored with making videos, art projects and watching movies and manage to cobble together an outing just to go somewhere.
The only thing that tilts one way over another is that LE and the families say after hard investigation, nothing was found that indicated they were meeting up with anyone that day. Is that enough to make some see the giraffes? No. For me, no matter how hard I try, I cannot see the daffodils. But I do appreciate that we are all here at the art museum together.
As far as our discussion here on WS, it’s like we’re all looking at the same abstract painting but seeing different things. Some of us see a field of daffodils and others see a family of giraffes. Some see the girls’ actions as indicating the girls were trying very hard to get to a clandestine meeting with some unknown person. I, and some others, see the girls’ actions as a typical day off of school by two young teens, who don’t drive, and have grown bored with making videos, art projects and watching movies and manage to cobble together an outing just to go somewhere.
The only thing that tilts one way over another is that LE and the families say after hard investigation, nothing was found that indicated they were meeting up with anyone that day. Is that enough to make some see the giraffes? No. For me, no matter how hard I try, I cannot see the daffodils. But I do appreciate that we are all here at the art museum together.
Also, just throwing this out there, but isn't it also possible they may have told Kelsi or mentioned it if they were going to 'meet someone'? By all accounts, Kelsi and Libby were really pretty close. Doesn't mean sisters share everything, of course, or if she was worried Kelsi might tell their grandma, but they seemed to have a pretty tight relationship where something like that may have been worth mentioning and Kelsi would have known about it. Just thinking out loud here.
Just one of the reasons I just have a real hard time buying the 'meeting someone' angle..
Just one of the reasons I just have a real hard time buying the 'meeting someone' angle..
Charlot123
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I think that it might be the situation when the girls expected to meet a cute boy, and instead, the BG appeared.
More likely, they expected to meet with someone, some adult, they had certain information about, but he did not look like the BG.
My personal feeling, the real target was Libby; I don’t know why an adult was so scared of her, but it is what it is.
Sarahlou
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Agreed. I have never thought they were there to meet anyone. I think they just got very unlucky to be there at the same time as that psychopath.
How wonderful it would be one day to see this horrible case solved.
Ravenmoon
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I really do not know much about the day before.
I only know what BP has said as far as the night/early morning, morning of the murder.
MOO AMOO
Ravenmoon
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Libby was always on the go. It was a day off, and oddly pleasant weather for February.
Kelsi has said that there is not a lot of anything to do in Delphi, and that kids go to the trails around Monon High Bridge.
She has said, "It's just what we do way out in the country. The only other place to go and hang out is the gas station."
Think about it- young teens and afternoon to fill, BUT , they knew being Winter time still there were only a couple of hours of good daylight left to have.
And Libby was a wonderful photographer.
She did many things well and this was also a hobby.
AMOO JMO
Ravenmoon
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Yes, this pretty much sums up what I believe. I don't know about #3. Maybe. I also believe it could be someone not even on LE's radar - i.e., interviewed, but LE didn't seriously consider them for one reason or another. OTH, given the volume of tips, instead of 3 or 4, it might be 3-4 times that many. What gives me doubt in that respect is the fact that LE changed the description - the sketches - two years later. On #4, unfortunately, I also believe there will be another victim or victims before he is caught.
I've always felt it was a premeditated crime, with random 'wrong place, wrong time' victims. I think it's possible they were chosen because they were young and vulnerable, but equally one or both girls may have been what the murderer would have chosen, in his sick and depraved way.
I find the pre-arranged meeting possible, but though I can imagine a variety of scenarios, I always come back to the fact that if there was a pre-arranged meet with a boy, the girl who was involved would have been excitable. I don't know if they had access to makeup, but even if they tried to hide the meeting from family, I'd expect the girl involved to have taken makeup, even just a bit, fiddled with her hair, sprayed herself with body spray or perfume, put clean clothes on, been giggly, whispering etc. All of this would have been noticeable to Kelsie at least.
We have no idea whether this is an angle LE are following (once again it backs up the perp being local) and the family have been told to keep quiet about this. But I don't see them planning to meet a boy, for the first time and being able to completely hide their feelings, no matter how hard they tried. Especially with Kelsie, who knows them so well and isn't much older than them. She'd know the signs.
I find the pre-arranged meeting possible, but though I can imagine a variety of scenarios, I always come back to the fact that if there was a pre-arranged meet with a boy, the girl who was involved would have been excitable. I don't know if they had access to makeup, but even if they tried to hide the meeting from family, I'd expect the girl involved to have taken makeup, even just a bit, fiddled with her hair, sprayed herself with body spray or perfume, put clean clothes on, been giggly, whispering etc. All of this would have been noticeable to Kelsie at least.
We have no idea whether this is an angle LE are following (once again it backs up the perp being local) and the family have been told to keep quiet about this. But I don't see them planning to meet a boy, for the first time and being able to completely hide their feelings, no matter how hard they tried. Especially with Kelsie, who knows them so well and isn't much older than them. She'd know the signs.
The 'creepy guy' comment was made up. Neither Abby or Libby said it. I think Gray Hughes may have made it up as a way of suggesting what might have been said, but it's been denied by Libby's family I think. Unfortunately it keeps being quoted and it means people view the situation as perceived by the girls, as different to how it actually was at that specific time.
Gray Hughes says 'creepy guy' a couple of times around 10.30.
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There is an article where it does say the girls spoke of the man behind them.
Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family | wthr.com
State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.
Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."
Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family | wthr.com
State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.
Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man. The only audio that has been released to the public from the phone is that of a man's voice ordering German and her friend, Abby Williams, "down the hill."
Yes, I know, but my understanding is that they did not say 'creepy guy'. I can't access that video, but there's a difference in saying "Oh look, a man's coming over the bridge" and "It's that creepy guy". IMO it could have significantly altered their first reactions when they first saw him on the bridge had they thought "Oh no, it's that creepy guy ", as opposed to it 'just' being a man.
I think the speed at which he crossed the bridge may have been what changed him from being a man, to something altogether more frightening, hence Libby videoing him.
JMO.
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