Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Peppery]

I believe the facts will be somewhat simple when this killer is finally caught. Some of the complexity to this case comes from LE themselves. Things such as being coy about whether or not LE actually has DNA and, if so, is it from the killer. Then the sketches. First one sketch then another one 2 years later while stating the first sketch is no longer relevant. Then the ISP superintendent states, less than a month after a month after the April 2019 PC, 'that a sketch is not a photo' and the 'killer may look like something in between the two sketches'. (So based on that is the first sketch still in play?)

The video and audio aren't extensive enough for the vast majority of us to recognize anything, but hopefully someone close to this guy will. Unfortunately, if this guy lives in a large city away from Delphi - say, Lafayette or Indianapolis or even Louisville KY - then it may be a larger leap of imagination for someone outside a family member to make the connection to the Delphi area. Further complicating matters, if this killer never actually lived in the area in the past but visited a relative - eg., aunt/uncle, grandparent - then that fact might not show in a resume or job application. I'm of the opinion this killer was not recognized in the months following the killings because he was not a resident of the Delphi area at the time of the killings.

I really don't know any other way other than having his DNA this case can be solved other than someone seeing something in the video or hear something in the audio. If this killer lives by himself no one who knows him might have any idea where he was on that day. He could have been unemployed. Some retail businesses open 7 days a week have employees who off during the weekdays. Monday is one of the slowest days of the week in the grocery business, for example.

I realize there is a possibility of a connection, however vague or strong, through some social media, but I believe it is most likely he never saw or heard of Abigail or Liberty prior to that day. Purely opportunistic crime and a killing by a stranger is the hardest to solve for LE. IOW, Abigail and Liberty were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Had they chose not to be on the bridge at that day and time and it was a classmate(s) of Abigail and Liberty, we might be following their murders instead.

Of course, he could have been suspected early on and with almost 60K in tips he is hidden in among the other thousands of tips. If that tip fell through the cracks or wasn't vetted hard enough by LE, the tipster might be thinking the person they called in was cleared.

I agree 1000%. IMO, BG is going to be exactly what he looks like (to me): a 40-50-ish year old midwestern white guy. No special occupation, nothing that makes him stand out. His gait will probably be unremarkable. His hair will probably be styled differently and grayed somewhat by now. I don't think he's going to be a loner, I think he's just an average guy, working an average job and living an average life. He probably didn't have any elaborate kill kit with him, maybe a knife or a gun, nothing that would raise suspicion if someone else saw it. I absolutely agree that he had zero knowledge of Abby or Libby. He might be a killer who starts hunting when the urge strikes him and they happened to be there. I think he just as easily could have killed someone else, somewhere else, on a different day to satisfy his urge. This likely wasn't his first murder and likely won't be his last unless he's dead. He's never going to let anything about the murders slip, he won't confide in anyone, he won't do anything to raise anyone's suspicion. He doesn't feel any guilt or remorse, he just did what he needed to do and went on with life. When he's caught, even those closest to him will probably be surprised. I don't think anyone knows who he is and is covering for him. I just don't think LE has release anything about him that is all that unique. It seems like someone should recognize him to us because with an audio clip and photo it feels impossible not to. But I just don't think anything that we know about him really sets him apart from millions of other men in the US. JMO

 

[girlfriday]

From January 2020

ISP Road Show about the Delphi case.

I found the information provided by ISP DC starting at time code: 8:38, in the above linked video, helpful.

IMO, all that is left is naming the person involved who was identified as in the area and depicted on the bridge.

Sketch one was not replaced by sketch two. It became secondary. That was stated in the most current 2019 news conference.

 

[JnRyan]

How many people here have walked on a rickety old railroad bridge like this? ( I hold my hand up). Walked across a couple of these over the James River and Maury River in Virginia.

The odd gait of BG is perfectly understandable. The distance between ties is too close to step one on one and too far to skip every other tie. it is very awkward. Then, you have vertigo looking thru the openings and seeing you are 30 feet above the water. It is pretty scary. I personally would not put any stock in whether he looks like he is walking directly toward the girls or has some sort of limp. I think each of us would look the same gait wise doing the same thing.

Just my 2 cents worth.

So, without a reliable view of his true gait that leaves us with the clothing (fairly common; not unique) and face in a blurred image, then, maybe, the voice. If he is - or has been, if a tip is in the 60K - identified it would most likely have to be someone close to him. Co-worker, family member, neighbor or current partner.

Another complication: Awareness by the general public. Liberty's sister has stated that she frequently comes across students at her college that have not heard of this. Of all my co-workers I have not come across one who has heard of this case. I tend to believe those of us on here that don't live within an hour of Delphi are the exception rather than the rule with regard to knowledge of this case. There is a good chance that those around this killer don't know or don't remember this case and he walks past them frequently - i.e., hiding in plain sight. Especially if he lived an hour or more away from Delphi. Of course, if this guy does not work in an establishment but is self employed - mows lawns, does landscaping, a handyman, HVAC repair, plumbing, for example - his exposure to the general public is further limited and he would not have to account to anyone for his time that day.

 

[JnRyan]

I stop in every now and then to see what we are all talking about but it is heartbreaking to see that we are no further ahead than we were several years ago.

After reading all the threads over the years, and thinking endlessly on possibilities, I think simplicity is the best way to go.

MOO - simply - BG was on a mission that day with a plan. I don't believe he chose to kill 2 girls at all. I think he planned to kill 1. He came across 2 girls and his excitement rose up to the temptation. He probably couldn't believe his luck. I believe he was looking for a young girl/teen. He came across two. The motive was definitely sexual.

I believe he passed them once, maybe said something, which is why when he came back Libby started filming. She was uneasy.

"The Gift of Fear"

I think he took some time before coming back to see who was around. When he determined that it was safe for him he moved in on the girls.

It wouldn't surprise me if only one of the girls was sexually assaulted. Time was not on his side. But a sexual motivation is up front for me.

Murder was definitely his plan.

I would bet that he was a stalker of sorts, peeping Tom, maybe had previously sexually assaulted someone or several people. He may not have murdered before but when he is eventually caught, and he will be, people will know him for his past transgressions. This was not his first rodeo.

I absolutely believe that this person has a connection to Delphi. He knew his way around, knew the Bridge, forced the girls "down the hill" and knew how to get away without being seen. His only mistake was not knowing that Libby was filming him.

He's either long gone, or "hiding in plain sight". It could go either way. His connection to Delphi may not be current. I've often gone "home" to check out the "old neighbourhood" for nostalgia sake.

In Ontario, the murder of Christine Jessop was just solved after 30 some odd years, but it was solved. I guarantee that this one will be solved as well. Jonelle Matthews' case was just solved recently. Advancement in forensics is occurring daily.

BG will be caught. I just hope I'm around to see it happen and that BG does end up in jail for a very long, if not indefinite period of time.

ETA: I am convinced that a family member or members suspect something but can't, or won't, come forward. MOO as well.

ALL MOO

All very good points.

 

[Charlot123]

I have seen OCD up close and personal for the last 17 years.
My opinion, you cannot diagnose OCD based on watching a couple seconds of someone walking on a perilous rundown bridge.
His gait looks “ritualistic” because we are watching a two second video that is looped to restart and plays over and over, not because this guy has OCD.
BG may end up having OCD. He may also have six toes on one foot, be colorblind, or dozens of other things, but, like OCD, those can’t be known from looking at that video.

To me it seems that he has either some tic (the way he moves his head), or, if he spits over his left shoulder, maybe he belongs to the group that believes the devil is standing there? I have heard it from some people. I can’t understand what shoulder it is though, as I don’t know whether his image is mirrored, or not. And I agree, a looped image is not very clear.
What I said is JMO - merely an idea that occurred to me.

All of it, essentially, comes from the same - DC’s invitation to look at BG’s “mannerisms”. DC dropped a lot of phrases that one can neither forget nor interpret, and in fact, because he speaks to the public, he owes some clarity, sorry.

Another brilliant example: “even on his first day” (that from a podcast). BG’s first day. Where? When was the first day? Mind you, podcasts are meant for the public, so some clarity is necessary.

 

[Charlot123]

From January 2020

ISP Road Show about the Delphi case.

I found the information provided by ISP DC starting at time code: 8:38, in the above linked video, helpful.

IMO, all that is left is naming the person involved who was identified as in the area and depicted on the bridge.

Sketch one was not replaced by sketch two. It became secondary. That was stated in the most current 2019 news conference.

In Flora thread: in 2018, he promised that arrest in Flora case would come soon. I don’t bet on either case being that clear.

 

[Charlot123]

Me too. I started to cross the Capilano Suspension Bridge in BC. Took 3 steps and said no way. I couldn't do it.

OMG, 18 years ago I managed that bridge... (Capilano). I tried to look forward, and not into the gorge. (Especially in the middle of the bridge). But CSB it is a touristy attraction, and well-preserved; MHB is decrepit.

 

[girlfriday]

In Flora thread: in 2018, he promised that arrest in Flora case would come soon. I don’t bet on either case being that clear.

Fair enough. I hear ya. I’m still hopeful, though.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

My main point is no one can diagnose this guy from the pictures we have.
I apologize getting frustrated with this.

You just to have to consider, that people here, who are talking about OCD or ADHD or whatever, might have a certain person (their suspect) in mind and don't diagnose BG from his look/gait on the MHB only.
If you would suspect DN for example, you would combine all, what you are knowing about him, with the pic/video/sketch and draw the conclusion from it.
If it is not DN but another person, it's all the same.
Speculations, which may help (or not ).

Other topics, that repeat themselves, are just as boring. But we don't have anything else right now!

 

[Justice101]

Good point about most people not knowing diddly squat about this case. We here are the minority.

Honestly, if I had video and voice like that of someone...ANYONE THAT I ACTUALLY KNOW... I would know it was them instantly.

So... here is my supposition from that conclusion: 1) The publicity of BG his photo/video and voice somehow DID NOT REACH the 2 or 3 people who actually know him or...… 2) It reached them and they are reluctant to come forward.

How do you get video and audio of the killer and someone doesn't come forward? Or have they already??? But LE can't connect the dots due to evidence to make an arrest?

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

We have a very special guest tonight on Websleuths YouTube Live.
We welcome Libby's grandmother, Becky Patty.
Special time tonight too.
CLICK HERE AT 8:00 PM EASTERN TO HEAR BECKY PATTY ON WEBSLEUTHS YOUTUBE LIVE

 

[stattlich1]

From January 2020

ISP Road Show about the Delphi case.

I found the information provided by ISP DC starting at time code: 8:38, in the above linked video, helpful.

IMO, all that is left is naming the person involved who was identified as in the area and depicted on the bridge.

Sketch one was not replaced by sketch two. It became secondary. That was stated in the most current 2019 news conference.

This is the video that led me to the belieft that more than one perp was involved in these murders. At 11:00 or shortly thereafter, it is stated "Either one of these individuals, or a group, whatever that might be, that were involved in this".....

 

[Yemelyan]

This is the video that led me to the belieft that more than one perp was involved in these murders. At 11:00 or shortly thereafter, it is stated "Either one of these individuals, or a group, whatever that might be, that were involved in this".....

This is JMO. But around minute 9 the host of the show says he wants to switch gears and talk about the Flora Fires and they discuss the fact that Carter believes that case will also be solved and that in his opinion the fire was set by someone who didn't know that the outcome would be the deaths of those little girls. Then they talk about the fact that the Delphi community was hit from November to February with BOTH of these tragedies and they discuss how the community responded.

So when Carter says it's his hope that "either of these individuals... or a group" he means BOTH the person responsible for Flora, AND the person responsible for Delphi have the opportunity to come forward. And when he says "or a group, whoever is responsible" he could also be talking about the Flora Fire. It is muddled, no doubt, but that's my interpretation based on the fact that they were discussing Flora and the community's response to both incidents just prior.

 

[Tricia]

TONIGHT IN ADDITION TO BECKY PATTY, LIBBY GRANDMOTHER WE WILL HAVE TARA GERMAN JOIN US. TARA IS LIBBY'S AUNT AND WAS ON THE SEARCH THE NIGHT ABBY AND LIBBY WENT MISSING.

CLICK ON THIS LINK AT 8:00 PM EASTERN AND JOIN US LIVE.

 

[stattlich1]

This is JMO. But around minute 9 the host of the show says he wants to switch gears and talk about the Flora Fires and they discuss the fact that Carter believes that case will also be solved and that in his opinion the fire was set by someone who didn't know that the outcome would be the deaths of those little girls. Then they talk about the fact that the Delphi community was hit from November to February with BOTH of these tragedies and they discuss how the community responded.

So when Carter says it's his hope that "either of these individuals... or a group" he means BOTH the person responsible for Flora, AND the person responsible for Delphi have the opportunity to come forward. And when he says "or a group, whoever is responsible" he could also be talking about the Flora Fire. It is muddled, no doubt, but that's my interpretation based on the fact that they were discussing Flora and the community's response to both incidents just prior.

Seems to me in their conversation they went back to talking about building a softball field, the focus of the conversation went back to the girls, and the wording "that were involved in this" points to one event, IMO.

Were both tragedies the point of focus then the wording would have to change to 'involved in these crimes, events, tragedies, etc.'

I've considered the argument you've posited here in the past, quite some time ago, and have revisited this little video countless times. I'm convinced the reference is to the girls, and not the Flora fire.

The other speculation I've had is that he referred to the people, plural, involved in 'this' could mean that the fire, and the murders, are connected in some fashion, since the discussion revolved around both tragedies. Who knows, right? Beyond a few fundamental truths, all is speculation here, is it not?

Group? No matter how you slice it, there it is. The suggestion of even more than two. It's very telling, for me. MOO

I get it. The English language. Twisted words. Innuendo. Semantics.

I've watched the body language of the three men at this point of the clip, over and over.

MOO

 

[mom2chloe]

So as I am watching on youtube, so far the only new thing I’ve learned tonight is that Tara says they had a new puppy that all the kids had spent the weekend playing with and my questions are was the puppy from a shelter or a breeder? I am interested in this particular aspect because in the Isabel Celis case we learned that the creep had come to her parent’s home looking at a used Honda they had listed for sale. Could BG be someone related to or familiar with someone from whom the puppy was purchased or acquired from? MOO
I’m still watching but this is something that stood out to me while trying to think outside the box. Again MOO

who thinks this might be a worthwhile tip? TIA!

 

[Yemelyan]

Seems to me in their conversation they went back to talking about building a softball field, the focus of the conversation went back to the girls, and the wording "that were involved in this" points to one event, IMO.

Were both tragedies the point of focus then the wording would have to change to 'involved in these crimes, events, tragedies, etc.'

I've considered the argument you've posited here in the past, quite some time ago, and have revisited this little video countless times. I'm convinced the reference is to the girls, and not the Flora fire.

The other speculation I've had is that he referred to the people, plural, involved in 'this' could mean that the fire, and the murders, are connected in some fashion, since the discussion revolved around both tragedies. Who knows, right? Beyond a few fundamental truths, all is speculation here, is it not?

Group? No matter how you slice it, there it is. The suggestion of even more than two. It's very telling, for me. MOO

I get it. The English language. Twisted words. Innuendo. Semantics.

I've watched the body language of the three men at this point of the clip, over and over.

MOO

Yes, none of us here are mind readers, unfortunately, and the flow of the conversation was definitely moving back and forth between both crimes. IMO LE in a lot of unsolved cases, including Delphi, will be careful to say "person or persons" - even if they really think one person is involved - just because until a case is tried and settled you don't want to commit to one perpetrator just on the off chance someone else was involved, even peripherally.

My interpretation remains that when Carter said "either individual" he was referring to the perpetrators of both the Flora and Delphi crimes, not just of Delphi. But, it's JMO. I would probably think complete differently if they weren't just discussing Flora, the fact that both of the crimes happened in such a short span, and the fact that they are evidently missing "just one piece of the puzzle" to solve either crime.

I don't think the two crimes are connected.

 

[minazoe]

So as I am watching on youtube, so far the only new thing I’ve learned tonight is that Tara says they had a new puppy that all the kids had spent the weekend playing with and my questions are was the puppy from a shelter or a breeder? I am interested in this particular aspect because in the Isabel Celis case we learned that the creep had come to her parent’s home looking at a used Honda they had listed for sale. Could BG be someone related to or familiar with someone from whom the puppy was purchased or acquired from? MOO
I’m still watching but this is something that stood out to me while trying to think outside the box. Again MOO

who thinks this might be a worthwhile tip? TIA!

hadn't we speculated there was a puppy inside BG's jacket? why do I feel like we had once discussed the idea that someone was meeting them there with a puppy...maybe it was just in the back of my mind as I tried to come up with reasons they might have gone there to meet someone... it wouldn't the first time a puppy has been used as a lure.

probably not..but it would be worth a look. I really think we did discuss this idea in the past, but this is the firstI heard of the new puppy Tara speaks of. mOO

 

[cujenn81]

LE have not said who they've cleared, they always use verbiage like "we are not interested in him at this time." However, we do know that they've asked people to submit DNA, they've requested DNA from at least one autopsy (why would they do that if they had zero to compare it to?) and other people have volunteered it.

This is purely my opinion but I think it's likely they have at least enough information from DNA to rule some people out. I think it's likely this is how some local-ish sex offenders were excluded.

Edited to add...they can still "cover" possible suspects through a combination of things like phone location data and work records, etc. Example, if you work in an automotive plant and you are recorded on CCTV during your entire shift from 8-5 on 2/13/17, LE has strong evidence to cover you. So they may also be excluding people based on the inability to put them near the crime scene location on the day in question.

This seems likely to me too — they probably have a partial or mixed sample. IF this is true, they’ve got pieces (or genetic sequences) but not enough of it to solve the puzzle (BG’s complete DNA profile). Although a partial sample isn’t sufficient enough to locate a potential match in their database, it IS (often) enough to rule out a specific suspect.

If a partial sample contains genetic markers that determine certain physical characteristics (like hair color, male pattern baldness, etc.), they could also have that information, as well.

 

[moody_chicago]

hadn't we speculated there was a puppy inside BG's jacket? why do I feel like we had once discussed the idea that someone was meeting them there with a puppy...maybe it was just in the back of my mind as I tried to come up with reasons they might have gone there to meet someone... it wouldn't the first time a puppy has been used as a lure.

probably not..but it would be worth a look. I really think we did discuss this idea in the past, but this is the firstI heard of the new puppy Tara speaks of. mOO

I would be so easily lured by a puppy. I am a paranoid person , into true crime, who got jumped years and years ago, so I’m always on my guard. But all of that goes out the window if someone has a dog. I even almost got robbed in England once cuz I was petting some strangers dog. It’s my weakness