Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[stattlich1]

Correct--they asked for tips from anyone who recognized his mannerisms.
LE did not ask for public's help other than that "LAST PIECE OF THE PUZZLE"
whatever that may be.

I've considered this 'LAST PIECE' and for me it means one of two things.....

1. the 'last piece' is the killers identity

2. the 'last piece' is, out of the 2 or more perps involved, which one actually murdered the girls.

What else have you?

Possibly the killer has an alibi, yet they know he is the killer, but can't determine how he did it in light of the solid alibi?

 

[MistyWaters]

I've considered this 'LAST PIECE' and for me it means one of two things.....

1. the 'last piece' is the killers identity

2. the 'last piece' is, out of the 2 or more perps involved, which one actually murdered the girls.

What else have you?

Possibly the killer has an alibi, yet they know he is the killer, but can't determine how he did it in light of the solid alibi?

Yes, the last piece of the puzzle is the killer’s identity. Although this was said about a year following the murders, that LE continued to ask for tips leading to the killer’s identity, no charges laid, it seems the puzzle is still missing that one piece.

“Even though no arrests have been made, Carter said he believes "we're one piece of the puzzle away from figuring out who this individual is."

"Somebody out there knows who this person is," he said. "I don't think there's multiple pieces of the puzzle. ... I think there's one piece. And it's having one individual with the strength to say that was my brother, that's my dad, or that's my cousin, that's my neighbor, my co-worker. And I think we're one piece away — one piece.".....”
Delphi murders update 2019: What we know about unsolved killings

 

[MichelleBlue]

IMO, BG would not take a risk of committing an act like this & not knowing the area. I think he grew up in the area or lived there currently.

When I was a teen, my friends & I hung out on back paths & active railroad tracks. They connected properties, roads, & even neighborhoods. We knew the shortcuts. The paths were also used by men now & then who used them to travel between properties & neighborhoods on foot. IMO, this is similar to the situation here. I think the killer is someone who is very familiar with the area & surrounding properties. Most likely grew up there & used the paths as travel short cuts in the past or at the time due to not having a car or not being able to drive for some reason. I have always thought the photo & video showed a full head of youthful, light brown hair swooped across his forehead so this would not be a man with thinning hair or a receding hairline. I think the 1st sketch was off with the hat (they had mistaken the youthful hair for a hat initially) & the 2nd sketch is off because of the hairstyle. It should have been thick, straight hair that covered his forehead, not curly hair that is extended upwards & exposed his forehead.

These are all my nonexpert opinions only. I pray the girls' families will have closure someday soon.

 

[kkdj]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

What I can't figure out is if he knew the girls or their families beforehand. I have all kinds of thoughts with this question.

<modsnip: If you can't discuss it here, don't mention it.>

 

[MistyWaters]

IMO, BG would not take a risk of committing an act like this & not knowing the area. I think he grew up in the area or lived there currently.

When I was a teen, my friends & I hung out on back paths & active railroad tracks. They connected properties, roads, & even neighborhoods. We knew the shortcuts. The paths were also used by men now & then who used them to travel between properties & neighborhoods on foot. IMO, this is similar to the situation here. I think the killer is someone who is very familiar with the area & surrounding properties. Most likely grew up there & used the paths as travel short cuts in the past or at the time due to not having a car or not being able to drive for some reason. I have always thought the photo & video showed a full head of youthful, light brown hair swooped across his forehead so this would not be a man with thinning hair or a receding hairline. I think the 1st sketch was off with the hat (they had mistaken the youthful hair for a hat initially) & the 2nd sketch is off because of the hairstyle. It should have been thick, straight hair that covered his forehead, not curly hair that is extended upwards & exposed his forehead.

These are all my nonexpert opinions only. I pray the girls' families will have closure someday soon.

I agree with you, from the beginning I’d always thought the photo from Libby’s video looked liked a younger man as well, exactly as you’ve described.

 

[girlfriday]

I've considered this 'LAST PIECE' and for me it means one of two things.....

1. the 'last piece' is the killers identity

2. the 'last piece' is, out of the 2 or more perps involved, which one actually murdered the girls.

What else have you?

Possibly the killer has an alibi, yet they know he is the killer, but can't determine how he did it in light of the solid alibi?

Good points. My thoughts are a bit different. I think the killer is known, but not the name of the person we've come to call 'BG' who fits the description, for the most part, of what WE see as depicted on the bridge. I don't think we are seeing a full or fully accurate picture. I do also think the killer was on the bridge. The reason I think they have not made an arrest is because, as long as 'BG' remains a nameless 'boogie-man', reasonable doubt can be entertained in a defense of the known killer, making a conviction very difficult or unlikely. I think a tie between the killer and 'BG' is not apparent enough to determine who he is (not a close associate). That is why I think they are happy to get tips about anyone who was dressed that way, because that might simply be how he is identified, without any other apparent connection. The reasons I think he has not been identified: he doesn't stand out, his close associates and family think he wouldn't be involve and have not sent in a tip; he hasn't come forward because he has a distrust of the legal system and thinks he'll be framed for more than his actual role or he's no longer alive. These are just my personal observations and opinions. I have no way of knowing.

 

[sandy_80]

as an artist ...the first sketch was def created partly by looking at the video image
a heavy older round face is what i see when i look at the video and thats how I would have sketched it
the second sketch has nothing to do with the image we see from the video ...but because of the power of suggestion... since le started this whole second sketch phase.. ppl started seeing what isn't there
its not true that the video abby and libby heroically caught is as useless as they are trying to make it ....its true its blurry but we have an idea about a general look and age range
also the second sketch has a male with a very long chin ...bending down like the bg we see in the video...the chin would look much more pronounced which is not what i see in the video image

 

[Yemelyan]

I've considered this 'LAST PIECE' and for me it means one of two things.....

1. the 'last piece' is the killers identity

2. the 'last piece' is, out of the 2 or more perps involved, which one actually murdered the girls.

What else have you?

Possibly the killer has an alibi, yet they know he is the killer, but can't determine how he did it in light of the solid alibi?

Regarding your point #2...people bring this up a lot and it always sounds like a great theory that explains everything until you remember that Indiana has a legal mechanism called accomplice liability. This is different than "aiding and abetting," or assisting a criminal (harboring, helping, or giving a false alibi).

Accomplice liability means that individuals can be held fully accountable for a murder if they were an active participant in any part of it, regardless of whether they were actually the one who ended the victim's life.

In Indiana a person is responsible for the actions of another person when, before OR during the commission of a crime, he or she knowingly helps another person commit it. See Indiana Code 35-41-2-4 "One who...aids, induces, or causes another person to commit an offense commits that offense....an accomplice can be held criminally liable for everything which was a probable and natural consequence of their common plan."

All of this is to say, if LE in the Delphi case knew that two individuals were involved but didn't know which one actually ended the girls' lives, nothing would hold them back from arresting and charging both individuals equally.

There are several Indiana murder cases that show accomplice liability applied but here's one if you'd like to explore this: Hauk v. State

To your point about circumventing a solid alibi. People act like an alibi given by a second individual creates a miraculous barrier that prevents LE from charging someone and trying them. IMO nothing could be further from the truth. Cases go to trial with alibi witnesses called all the time and it's up to the prosecutor to show that the witnesses are not believable and why.

 

[minazoe]

about the puppy

I only brought it up because the girls were playing with a NEW puppy the day before. When someone has a NEW puppy, it usually means there are other puppies available because they come in litters.

also we have discussed this before.

this and that myself and maybe some others here feel as though the girls seemingly were waiting there at the end of that bridge, maybe waiting for someone they were meeting there.

no, he probably did not ever have a puppy, obviously, but as a possible lure, it has happened before and will again.

we are sleuthing are we not? it's just an idea and Im sure the police already looked at the puppy connection
because they know killers and predators, they know how pedo's operate and they know this scenario.

mOO

 

[drama_farmer]

While I believe certain occupations such construction of tall buildings tend to have persons with less fear of heights, I don't believe looking at those professions will lead us to this killer. Such a person crossing the bridge could just as well be a CPA as someone who cleans windows on multi-story buildings while standing on a scaffold. (Purely an example here as any CPA would definitely be smack in the middle of tax season with the corporate tax return deadline a month away at that point in time.) Not long after the murders a lady made a video of herself and her significant other (BF? Husband? I don't remember) walking across the bridge and then walking down the hill on the other side. Just recently a YouTube producer, Tyler Draper, made a video of himself crossing the bridge on his first trip to Delphi and his past occupation was physical education teacher in an elementary school.

I do tend to believe this killer had been on that trail and bridge sometime in his past. Not because he was comfortable walking over the bridge, though. But rather because he was aware of the existence of the trail and the area off-trail walking toward the creek from the other end. IOW, he was familiar with that area in general and not just the bridge.

Regarding the height of the bridge and the comfort level of those crossing it as it relates to possible occupations: I keep reminding myself that Abby and Libby crossed the bridge that day, and neither had any extensive experience, IMO, in construction or mountain climbing or servicing cell phone towers.

 

[girlfriday]

about the puppy

I only brought it up because the girls were playing with a NEW puppy the day before. When someone has a NEW puppy, it usually means there are other puppies available because they come in litters.

also we have discussed this before.

this and that myself and maybe some others here feel as though the girls seemingly were waiting there at the end of that bridge, maybe waiting for someone they were meeting there.

no, he probably did not ever have a puppy, obviously, but as a possible lure, it has happened before and will again.

we are sleuthing are we not? it's just an idea and Im sure the police already looked at the puppy connection
because they know killers and predators, they know how pedo's operate and they know this scenario.

mOO

You make great points, a previous case I was sleuthing doubted a dog was involved, but it indeed turned out to have been the lure. You are absolutely correct, we are sleuthing here. I value your input! To tell you the truth, before I came up with my current POI, my research led me to two subjects that had small black and white dogs that were very prominent (even one of which was carried around and would fit the ideas of puppy inside the jacket). Thanks for sharing your observations. That recent WS interview provided that new information about the puppy LG sat on the floor playing with on Feb 13, 2017, which makes it worthy of re-visiting, IMO.

 

[Ozoner]

IMO, BG would not take a risk of committing an act like this & not knowing the area. I think he grew up in the area or lived there currently.

When I was a teen, my friends & I hung out on back paths & active railroad tracks. They connected properties, roads, & even neighborhoods. We knew the shortcuts. The paths were also used by men now & then who used them to travel between properties & neighborhoods on foot. IMO, this is similar to the situation here. I think the killer is someone who is very familiar with the area & surrounding properties. Most likely grew up there & used the paths as travel short cuts in the past or at the time due to not having a car or not being able to drive for some reason. I have always thought the photo & video showed a full head of youthful, light brown hair swooped across his forehead so this would not be a man with thinning hair or a receding hairline. I think the 1st sketch was off with the hat (they had mistaken the youthful hair for a hat initially) & the 2nd sketch is off because of the hairstyle. It should have been thick, straight hair that covered his forehead, not curly hair that is extended upwards & exposed his forehead.

These are all my nonexpert opinions only. I pray the girls' families will have closure someday soon.

I agree with everything you said, except the hair looks reddish-brown to me rather than light brown.

His posture doesn't look like the posture of a young man, but if he was carrying a bulky kill kit under his jacket, that would explain his posture.

 

[MistyWaters]

...snipped......To your point about circumventing a solid alibi. People act like an alibi given by a second individual creates a miraculous barrier that prevents LE from charging someone and trying them. IMO nothing could be further from the truth. Cases go to trial with alibi witnesses called all the time and it's up to the prosecutor to show that the witnesses are not believable and why.

I agree. If it were the role of LE to decide if a suspect’s alibi created reasonable doubt in the face of other strong, incriminating evidence of guilt, there’d be no need at all for Criminal Trials. But that’s not the way it is.

 

[Ozoner]

I agree. If it were the role of LE to decide if a suspect’s alibi created reasonable doubt in the face of other strong, incriminating evidence of guilt, there’d be no need at all for Criminal Trials. But that’s not the way it is.

Yes—there was even a case where a guy hired someone to impersonate him (wear his clothes, stay in his house, drive around in his car) while he traveled to another state in order to kill his estranged wife. He had multiple eyewitnesses who saw "him" hundreds of miles from the crime scene at the time the murder was committed.

 

[girlfriday]

as an artist ...the first sketch was def created partly by looking at the video image
a heavy older round face is what i see when i look at the video and thats how I would have sketched it
the second sketch has nothing to do with the image we see from the video ...but because of the power of suggestion... since le started this whole second sketch phase.. ppl started seeing what isn't there
its not true that the video abby and libby heroically caught is as useless as they are trying to make it ....its true its blurry but we have an idea about a general look and age range
also the second sketch has a male with a very long chin ...bending down like the bg we see in the video...the chin would look much more pronounced which is not what i see in the video image

Source link (DM)

Welcome to WS! It's wonderful to hear the opinions about the sketches from someone new, and from an Artist! I've quoted a very early post here, that has the stills that were put out by LE long prior to the new sketch. Some saw these as confusing with explanations that one subject appears to be heavier, with a brown pouch vs. brown hoodie hanging out, a different hat/hair, and older looking. I'd be curious about your observations, comparing these stills. Just offering and looking for personal opinion.

 

[stattlich1]

Regarding your point #2...people bring this up a lot and it always sounds like a great theory that explains everything until you remember that Indiana has a legal mechanism called accomplice liability. This is different than "aiding and abetting," or assisting a criminal (harboring, helping, or giving a false alibi).

Accomplice liability means that individuals can be held fully accountable for a murder if they were an active participant in any part of it, regardless of whether they were actually the one who ended the victim's life.

In Indiana a person is responsible for the actions of another person when, before OR during the commission of a crime, he or she knowingly helps another person commit it. See Indiana Code 35-41-2-4 "One who...aids, induces, or causes another person to commit an offense commits that offense....an accomplice can be held criminally liable for everything which was a probable and natural consequence of their common plan."

All of this is to say, if LE in the Delphi case knew that two individuals were involved but didn't know which one actually ended the girls' lives, nothing would hold them back from arresting and charging both individuals equally.

There are several Indiana murder cases that show accomplice liability applied but here's one if you'd like to explore this: Hauk v. State

To your point about circumventing a solid alibi. People act like an alibi given by a second individual creates a miraculous barrier that prevents LE from charging someone and trying them. IMO nothing could be further from the truth. Cases go to trial with alibi witnesses called all the time and it's up to the prosecutor to show that the witnesses are not believable and why.

So, could one conclude, based on what appears to be a rendering of possibilities #2, and #3 being ruled out, that LE in this case simply do not know who the killer is, and the 'last piece' they seek if simply for someone to come to them with the identity of the killer?

If not, then what else could that 'last piece' of the puzzle be?

 

[girlfriday]

I agree. If it were the role of LE to decide if a suspect’s alibi created reasonable doubt in the face of other strong, incriminating evidence of guilt, there’d be no need at all for Criminal Trials. But that’s not the way it is.

Yes, the new prosecutor made a point of saying that he wasn't going to tell the investigators how to investigate, but that everything public facing was to first be run by him. Who better than him (a legal professional) to make the case about whether the evidence supports a conviction (not just an arrest). MOO

 

[MichelleBlue]

I agree with everything you said, except the hair looks reddish-brown to me rather than light brown.

His posture doesn't look like the posture of a young man, but if he was carrying a bulky kill kit under his jacket, that would explain his posture.

IMO Yes, I agree with both of your points. Hair could be light brown with a sandy-red tone.

 

[Ozoner]

as an artist ...the first sketch was def created partly by looking at the video image
a heavy older round face is what i see when i look at the video and thats how I would have sketched it
the second sketch has nothing to do with the image we see from the video ...but because of the power of suggestion... since le started this whole second sketch phase.. ppl started seeing what isn't there
its not true that the video abby and libby heroically caught is as useless as they are trying to make it ....its true its blurry but we have an idea about a general look and age range
also the second sketch has a male with a very long chin ...bending down like the bg we see in the video...the chin would look much more pronounced which is not what i see in the video image

But his chin isn't visible at all, it? It looks like his parka is zipped or snapped up over his chin.

 

[minazoe]

One thing for certain. BG is a dirtbag and a coward. He is also a LOSER. of course he doesn't care what we say, he's having too much fun to care. He should know that his day of true humiliation will come. The kind of humiliation feared by narcissists . Loss of control. Loss of control over his own life will come and possibly in Indiana his life could be ended in a court of law. He has always known this , but takes the risk because of course he thinks he's going to get away with his murders and that he is a mastermind.

I don't think he has any anxiety or feelings however when it comes to himself he will cry like a little baby.

that day is coming. it is...just be patient. mOO