Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Charlot123]

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

I think, it is possible, that BG even hired a helicopter and took a flight above his future crime scene ...... He hasn't to be from Delphi, IMO. BG doesn't look like someone, who would have the money to do that, but if his outfit was a disguise, it's half of explained.

Or does he work at a place that might have a helicopter?

 

[Yemelyan]

I ran out of time to edit my last message so this is with regard to, has Carter ever definitively explained why he referenced The Shack?

In the podcast Scene of the Crime: A New Direction, minute 50:10: Kelsi asks Carter, can he clear up his remarks regarding The Shack? Did the girls die in a shack? Carter's answer: "There was no shack." He goes on to ask her if she has seen the movie: KG: "Yes, a couple of times." DC: "Then you know." He further explains that the movie reflects his personal values about morality and redemption and illustrates beautifully, in his opinion, how a person might cope with loss through faith.

To me this is a definite answer that puts to bed the question of if his remarks on The Shack were in any way a coded statement about the crime itself. @FromGermany @steeltowngirl

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Oh how I wish that Carter would just make a definitive statement about why he mentioned The Shack. I really feel that reference during the press conference set off a firestorm of speculation and was a bit reckless IMO. Unless it actually meant something, why say it at all?

The latest article did touch upon the topic:

The subreddit “Delphi Murders” has nearly 27,000 followers who hang on Carter’s every word. One theory wrongly posits that Carter’s allusion to “The Shack,” a novel about a man who seeks redemption after his daughter is murdered, during a 2019 press conference implies the girls’ killer may have been motivated by the book, or even left it at the crime scene.

“It’s problematic,” Carter said about conspiracy theories. “With homicide cases, it’s easy to speculate.”

A new path

I think he has been more direct about this in other interviews. That “The Shack” reference was only his feelings and not specifically about the case.
This entire case has been a neverending circus of reckless comments by LE that feed incorrect discussion and wilder speculations. Even when they try to clarify some confusing thing they have said, they many times just make it worse. They complain about all the crazy stuff people talk about, but they are one of the main reasons it happens. I wish they would think before they speak. Just my thoughts.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think he has been more direct about this in other interviews. That “The Shack” reference was only his feelings and not specifically about the case.
This entire case has been a neverending circus of reckless comments by LE that feed incorrect discussion and wilder speculations. Even when they try to clarify some confusing thing they have said, they many times just make it worse. They complain about all the crazy stuff people talk about, but they are one of the main reasons it happens. I wish they would think before they speak. Just my thoughts.

Agree. I have faith in LE overall, but their public communications in this case have been confusing and disappointing.

And yes, it has stirred up outlandish theories.

jmo

 

[girlfriday]

KG mentioned "The Shack" on Sept 19, 2018 in her interview with James Renner "Virtually a Detective /// Case 101: Delphi /// Chapter Eight (More with Kelsi)". It was after that, on April 22, 2019, during the press conference that ISP DC also mentioned "The Shack".

 

[St. Anthony2017]

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

I think, it is possible, that BG even hired a helicopter and took a flight above his future crime scene ...... He hasn't to be from Delphi, IMO. BG doesn't look like someone, who would have the money to do that, but if his outfit was a disguise, it's half of explained.

Or he could be a media reporter whose station regularly uses a helicopter for traffic reports, accidents , police activity, etc. There were lots of reporters at the last press conference and the public would certainly be surprised if one of them is the killer. Further, I assume there is a lot of drone activity near the bridge since it is such a beautiful area.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I ran out of time to edit my last message so this is with regard to, has Carter ever definitively explained why he referenced The Shack?

In the podcast Scene of the Crime: A New Direction, minute 50:10: Kelsi asks Carter, can he clear up his remarks regarding The Shack? Did the girls die in a shack? Carter's answer: "There was no shack." He goes on to ask her if she has seen the movie: KG: "Yes, a couple of times." DC: "Then you know." He further explains that the movie reflects his personal values about morality and redemption and illustrates beautifully, in his opinion, how a person might cope with loss through faith.

To me this is a definite answer that puts to bed the question of if his remarks on The Shack were in any way a coded statement about the crime itself. @FromGermany @steeltowngirl

While we can all appreciate the need for reflection, a press briefing for a crime isn’t a good time for metaphors. It confuses the public. There has been too much confusion. Communications, overall, have been troublesome it seems. However, without knowledge of the investigation, it’s easy to play armchair pundit.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[minazoe]

somehow he has eluded capture...as we have seen , someone can do some thing like this and then just blend back into the scenery unnoticed.

unless someone finds something, sees something, hears a confession or knows about lies that might have been told.

unless someone tells..he can just be utterly invisible.

do you live in Delphi or around there? do you know someone who is afraid? who lives in a bad situation, living with spousal abuse, elder abuse? living with fear of someone?

I feel like if there is a chance someone lives with him, they may be isolated and unable to come forward.

I hate to say this but , rural Indiana? you just don't know who all , or what all..

I hope everyones opinions, tips and ideas are being heard.

mOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I ran out of time to edit my last message so this is with regard to, has Carter ever definitively explained why he referenced The Shack?

In the podcast Scene of the Crime: A New Direction, minute 50:10: Kelsi asks Carter, can he clear up his remarks regarding The Shack? Did the girls die in a shack? Carter's answer: "There was no shack." He goes on to ask her if she has seen the movie: KG: "Yes, a couple of times." DC: "Then you know." He further explains that the movie reflects his personal values about morality and redemption and illustrates beautifully, in his opinion, how a person might cope with loss through faith.

To me this is a definite answer that puts to bed the question of if his remarks on The Shack were in any way a coded statement about the crime itself. @FromGermany @steeltowngirl

Surely DC can't admit, it was a psychological strategy, IF it was one. But okay, it was only an idea by me.

 

[Sillybilly]

bumping:

Just a reminder that Minivan Traveler is not an approved source at Websleuths.

 

[Yemelyan]

While we can all appreciate the need for reflection, a press briefing for a crime isn’t a good time for metaphors. It confuses the public. There has been too much confusion. Communications, overall, have been troublesome it seems. However, without knowledge of the investigation, it’s easy to play armchair pundit.

amateur opinion and speculation

I agree that a press conference should have been the time for direct and to the point messaging.

What was said that deviated from the ISP official remarks that were published a day or so later, I'm guessing, were said out of a spirit of mutual personal feeling and an attempt to comfort the families/people of Delphi in a moment of high emotion.

However, now that what's said is said and it's out there, he was asked to clarify it and he emphatically did - "There was no shack."

I think we should take his clarification at face value and not keep building theories of the crime around "The Shack." JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Today in the morning I suddenly got an idea.

If ISP can’t do more with the DNA, nor with anything they have received, then maybe go the Asian way.

Take pre-COVID videos from the biggest malls around. Mall of America, some malls in IL and KY, and, darn, hire a programmer to write the program for facial recognition software to compare the videos with this guy. Best take videos from 2016-2017.

Super-seers exist, too (read Jo Nesbo’s books). Maybe run by them as well, but I’d rely on technology.

Do something new and savvy if human factor has not produced much.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Today in the morning I suddenly got an idea.

If ISP can’t do more with the DNA, nor with anything they have received, then maybe go the Asian way.

Take pre-COVID videos from the biggest malls around. Mall of America, some malls in IL and KY, and, darn, hire a programmer to write the program for facial recognition software to compare the videos with this guy. Best take videos from 2016-2017.

Super-seers exist, too (read Jo Nesbo’s books). Maybe run by them as well, but I’d rely on technology.

Do something new and savvy if human factor has not produced much.

I like this idea. Unfortunately I don’t think the video/photo of the BG is anywhere close to clear enough for face recognition software to work it’s magic.
I would hope that LE has scoured all the security video in that area looking for someone dressed like BG at least.

 

[sunshineray]

Today in the morning I suddenly got an idea.

If ISP can’t do more with the DNA, nor with anything they have received, then maybe go the Asian way.

Take pre-COVID videos from the biggest malls around. Mall of America, some malls in IL and KY, and, darn, hire a programmer to write the program for facial recognition software to compare the videos with this guy. Best take videos from 2016-2017.

Super-seers exist, too (read Jo Nesbo’s books). Maybe run by them as well, but I’d rely on technology.

Do something new and savvy if human factor has not produced much.

I'm not convinced that in all those tips something important wasn't harvested. I think it's very possible the lack of news from LE is by design to protect what they do have.

I think a reporter should just ask ISP Carter, I don't want to know particulars and possibly endanger a successful prosecution down the road, please can you just tell the puclic, is there an active and TOTALLY unknown still out there? Your speech at April 2019 press conference made him sound known and protected by someone's silence. As it's getting closer to 2 years after that press conference, is this considered a cold case now?

I would like to see someone at ISP answer a few general questions starting with, do you feel this killer still hiding in plain sight in the community?

All that said...do I have the right to know those answers...no. Do I think if I lived in Delphi I'd have the right to ask those questions...yes.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree that a press conference should have been the time for direct and to the point messaging.

What was said that deviated from the ISP official remarks that were published a day or so later, I'm guessing, were said out of a spirit of mutual personal feeling and an attempt to comfort the families/people of Delphi in a moment of high emotion.

However, now that what's said is said and it's out there, he was asked to clarify it and he emphatically did - "There was no shack."

I think we should take his clarification at face value and not keep building theories of the crime around "The Shack." JMO

This is a very important statement.
while we are a discussion board, and press the boundaries of possibility, we can easily get too fanciful and off track. Mere notions can suddenly become part of the narrative.
I have been guilty of going too far out from time to time, but you all gently feel me back in.

Staying anchored to the known facts (even if there are few), is certainly important.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Falling Down]

BBM. That doesn't make sense to me. Why would a Perp who was there to commit murder "hang around watching people" and run the risk of several people seeing them, and potentially be able to provide a description of them after the crime? IWT they would be lurking more in the shadows tracking their prey?
Who knows, that miscreant Bundy was grandiose and "invincible" and perpetrated some of his crimes boldly in front of others. Hard to say.

Amateur opinion and speculation

My first thoughts going back 3.5 years about BG's whereabouts prior to the abduction and murders was he must have been back in the woods. Back on the M property, watching, lurking...

No way.

He was right out in the open, blending in with others on the main trail. During February, he would have been seen in those woods close to the main trail, as the vegetation was down.

I don't think BG needed to be concealed before the murders, but he definitely needed concealment during the murders, and for a time afterwards as he made his way out of the gorge.

JMO

 

[minazoe]

would be interesting to see satellite imagery for the couple of weeks before the murders, the cars that came and went, activity during the night. Traffic around the girls homes etc.

I guess you have to get it from NASA , wonder if that is possible and if they have it already... ? If you could get some snap shots? I don't know maybe this is only a reality in movies...

I know everyone leans towards this being random, but I don't trust that, I think he could have been stalking one of the girls...due to his preparedness...or what looks to be preparedness from all the lumps and bumps in his clothing. mOO

 

[Nerissa]

somehow he has eluded capture...as we have seen , someone can do some thing like this and then just blend back into the scenery unnoticed.

unless someone finds something, sees something, hears a confession or knows about lies that might have been told.

unless someone tells..he can just be utterly invisible.

do you live in Delphi or around there? do you know someone who is afraid? who lives in a bad situation, living with spousal abuse, elder abuse? living with fear of someone?

I feel like if there is a chance someone lives with him, they may be isolated and unable to come forward.

I hate to say this but , rural Indiana? you just don't know who all , or what all..

I hope everyones opinions, tips and ideas are being heard.

mOO

Occam's razor stuff - I'd say that this perp is....

1) young - being young, easier to be 'under the radar' with regard to work or home life, maybe parents gone during day.....irregular work schedule & in general the modern acceptance of teens going through a 'stage' even a dark stage....wasn't long ago you worked, you worked for the family - you didn't loaf about with your music & movies & video games (no offense meant & believe it or not: I'm not some old fogie - though apparently I'm already a curmedgeon: so save your crumpets for tea lol)

2) He does not have a criminal record - this seems fairly obvious & is in keeping with the perp being young - maybe under 20, at least under 25 JMO

3) this case wasn't handled as it ought to have been: I don't blame LE too much: rural Indiana: two pre-barely-teens on well-trod trails go missing: who thinks they've been taken right off that trail & murdered in broad daylight, plenty of potential witnesses....etc etc (again, sounds like a young man, first time, crime to me)......

4) Any forensic evidence was degraded because LE did not find crime scene within hour, two, three at most: talking about outdoors crime scene - plus- I think it's plausible our perp went back

5) LE said this crime was specific to Abby & Libby & that the general public did not need to fear - that's incredibly interesting to me.
Either it is a goof (if 'oops' they're wrong) OR they KNOW that the perp targeted Abby & Libby: now: how could they KNOW that.....????
If they do know that: then that would lead to the perp.....right????

If this were a young person dressing in baggy clothes & appearing older (now being older looking may not have been their mojo necessarily) to kill - they were prepared that day

Why?

Why that day?

And if LE is right (& they better be with an entire community - & all of us frankly if serial killer - at possible risk) that Abby+Libby were the targets......then that perp knew all about them & prepared well in advance.....I find that hard to believe: but it's LE's statement that Abby+Libby were the targets that I have to go with it......
In which case: why has the perp not been arrested....?

NOW: imagine LE doesn't really truly mean what they say by saying there's no reason to fret & the killer was only after Abby+Libby - then: the reason the perp hasn't been caught are the previous reasons: young, no record, forensic evidence either paltry or degraded: at any rate: not usable

SO - that's where I am!
It hinges on that LE statement about the perp targeting Abby+Libby.......that's my wrench in the cog....otherwise: I am not that surprised that a perp could get away with it considering caveats/strictures already elucidated.....

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I'm not convinced that in all those tips something important wasn't harvested. I think it's very possible the lack of news from LE is by design to protect what they do have.

I think a reporter should just ask ISP Carter, I don't want to know particulars and possibly endanger a successful prosecution down the road, please can you just tell the puclic, is there an active and TOTALLY unknown still out there? Your speech at April 2019 press conference made him sound known and protected by someone's silence. As it's getting closer to 2 years after that press conference, is this considered a cold case now?

I would like to see someone at ISP answer a few general questions starting with, do you feel this killer still hiding in plain sight in the community?

All that said...do I have the right to know those answers...no. Do I think if I lived in Delphi I'd have the right to ask those questions...yes.

Not only if we did. All girls in Libby’s/Abby’s class who have graduated and maybe, moved...what do we know about the motive, and who else could be in danger - still?

 

[Charlot123]

My first thoughts going back 3.5 years about BG's whereabouts prior to the abduction and murders was he must have been back in the woods. Back on the M property, watching, lurking...

No way.

He was right out in the open, blending in with others on the main trail. During February, he would have been seen in those woods close to the main trail, as the vegetation was down.

I don't think BG needed to be concealed before the murders, but he definitely needed concealment during the murders, and for a time afterwards as he made his way out of the gorge.

JMO

If he was blending in, he was probably doing what the others on the trail did. Hiking, hunting, cooking meth, fishing...what else?