Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[Kimmer]

Although convoluted, my guess has always been both sketches are of “the same person” — as in, merely one killer (“BG”). It was just (at least) two different witnesses giving physical descriptions of who they saw, creating both sketches.

This is the only scenario I can fathom taking into account where Carter notes “BG” could be a combination of the two sketches.

After the revealed “new sketch”, Carter said to disregard the “old sketch” (but to think of them both as some sort of combination, creating one image). I believe the “new sketch” was actually done within the same week of the murders, however.
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Not to do with sketches, but I also just noticed Indiana is not one of the few states which allow familial DNA testing (for some reason, I thought differently).

This is my theory, I think at first LE also thought it was one person but after analyzing the phone that the girls were taping with they were able to tell their were 2 male voices and from that is what brought the 2nd sketch, I have never thought it was either or, I have always felt it was both.

 

[Skully]

DNA can mean they have a strand of hair that isn't one of the victim's. It can mean you have partial DNA, not enough to put in CODIS, and if it is partial DNA it may only exist in a state database. He could have a sample in a state database and we don't know what state. It is possible. What ever they have whether it is full or partial, degraded or what ever, it may not match any database. The offender may not have ever been arrested or the DNA is not suitable for genealogy searches. As far as having lots of evidence at the crime scene, yes, there may be lots, but what is connected to the crime? You collect everything that is there, some of it will be the victim's, some of it may belong to the the killer, but some of it, was there before the crime. You don't know until you start testing and ruling stuff in and out. They said the crime scene was "odd". I have never heard that term used before, I have heard a lot, but that is not one the words that I have ever heard to describe a crime scene.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is my theory, I think at first LE also thought it was one person but after analyzing the phone that the girls were taping with they were able to tell their were 2 male voices and from that is what brought the 2nd sketch, I have never thought it was either or, I have always felt it was both.

What would be the reason for LE to deliberately mislead the public if they determined there were 2 different voices?

“Although the audio may appear to be a different voice, Indiana State Police were clear when they released it that the extended clip was all the same person.

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."...”
Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi

 

[Kimmer]

What would be the reason for LE to deliberately mislead the public if they determined there were 2 different voices?

“Although the audio may appear to be a different voice, Indiana State Police were clear when they released it that the extended clip was all the same person.

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."...”
Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi

I don't think they were deliberately misleading the public, and I agree he said it was 1 person in the clip that was released, but there was over 20 minutes of recording that has not been released, just because ISP and Carol County has not released more information to the public does not mean the info isn't in the possession, again JMO

 

[JnRyan]

Those pictures from the video are not that clear to me. I can't tell if the killer is wearing a hat of some type or if that is his hair. I also can't tell if I'm looking at a fanny pack or that is an untucked shirt hanging in front. If he is carrying a concealed handgun then the untucked shirt would be a way to cover it.

I do remember from the interview at the 2018 CrimeCon that ISP 1st Sgt Holeman stated that it months to do the sketch that was released first and that they did more than one sketch till they got an agreement from the witnesses on a sketch. He went on to say that in spite of an agreement among the multiple witnesses (he didn't say how many witnesses) on the face the witnesses were not in agreement on the hat in the sketch. He didn't elaborate further on that point.

 

[Skully]

And the thing that amazes me, is the lack of DNA. We see him on that video, he has hair, no gloves on, but he could have had them in the fanny pack, but I doubt it. The girls were found the next day, that in of it's self is amazing. It didn't rain to destroy evidence, it was cold, that helps, the animals didn't really have time to destroy the bodies, as far as I can tell, but there were deer there. I don't know what kind of wild life it out there, but in FL we have wild boar, and coyotes and they just take it all away.... It's hard to deal with it after they find a body. They found female under ware in the water and a cigarette. Which is still confusing to me. Wasn't there any movement to that creek? I mean was it flowing? Maybe the clothing was at the banks, got stuck? But a cigarette, if it had been in the water from the day before, it's not just sitting there, in the water, it is dissolved I would think. So maybe on the side of the banks? Anyway, just stuff I think of.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

This is my theory, I think at first LE also thought it was one person but after analyzing the phone that the girls were taping with they were able to tell their were 2 male voices and from that is what brought the 2nd sketch, I have never thought it was either or, I have always felt it was both.

I’m not sure I quite understand this theory. Are you implying there are two suspects at play, and law enforcement created the “new sketch” from the audio?

I believe we have two wide range of sketches for a combination of factors: proximity, age of witness, simple recollection of not “needing” to memorize physical features, etc. Both being sketched via LE on account of at least two “BG” witnesses shortly after the crime.

As I mentioned earlier, I think it’s interesting LE was looking for a possible “hitchhiker” at one point. Because if there were (at least) 2 “BG” witnesses, this could help explain the vast differences in sketches. For instance: maybe one witness saw him in passing via a vehicle and the other witness saw him closer, both being on foot, and was able to collect different physical characteristics. The sketches have likely caused more harm than created good.
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I’ll also add: I’ve never seen LE asking for follow-ups regarding the potentially abandoned bag, hitchhiker noted above, or vehicle located at the CPS building. Maybe LE found their answers. They were on to something early.

 

[sandy_80]

scene of the crime podcast ..concludes that carter stating
“I’ll never be able to unsee what I saw that day,” in 2017
means the scene was especially gruesome...

 

[Skully]

scene of the crime podcast ..concludes that carter stating
“I’ll never be able to unsee what I saw that day,” in 2017
means the scene was especially gruesome...

Any time you have to be at a scene of two little girls, murdered, you never forget that, you can never unsee it. It will haunt you to the end of your days. He will work this case long after he retires, he will always remember that scene, down to what it smelled like. But it is like that for most murder scenes, but worse when you victims are so young and innocent.

 

[Kimmer]

I’m not sure I quite understand this theory. Are you implying there are two suspects at play, and law enforcement created the “new sketch” from the audio?

I believe we have two wide range of sketches for a combination of factors: proximity, age of witness, simple recollection of not “needing” to memorize physical features, etc. Both being sketched via LE on account of at least two “BG” witnesses shortly after the crime.

As I mentioned earlier, I think it’s interesting LE was looking for a possible “hitchhiker” at one point. Because if there were (at least) 2 “BG” witnesses, this could help explain the vast differences in sketches. For instance: maybe one witness saw him in passing via a vehicle and the other witness saw him closer, both being on foot, and was able to collect different physical characteristics. The sketches have likely caused more harm than created good.
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I’ll also add: I’ve never seen LE asking for follow-ups regarding the potentially abandoned bag, hitchhiker noted above, or vehicle located at the CPS building. Maybe LE found their answers. They were on to something early.

My theory is that when this first happened they made the original sketch bases on what they had been told by an witness, I think once they isolated and listened to the recording on the phone they heard 2 male voices. Hence changing the direction of their investigation and during that investigation they received more info that was what the 2nd sketch was made from, I think it is not one sketch or the other I think it is both.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think they were deliberately misleading the public, and I agree he said it was 1 person in the clip that was released, but there was over 20 minutes of recording that has not been released, just because ISP and Carol County has not released more information to the public does not mean the info isn't in the possession, again JMO

The recording is in the possession of LE so what’s the reason we’d doubt they’ve determined the audio and video is of the same person? If it’s because it doesn’t match a certain theory, then it’s the theory that needs changing, not LE statements IMO.

 

[margarita25]

This is my theory, I think at first LE also thought it was one person but after analyzing the phone that the girls were taping with they were able to tell their were 2 male voices and from that is what brought the 2nd sketch, I have never thought it was either or, I have always felt it was both.

I respectfully strongly disagree with this theory. LE has never indicated imo there is more than one perp, and certainly not via the voice recordings. Again, not being demeaning or argumentative, just sayin jmo. If LE had any indication there was more than one perp, I think they would have said so, jmo. But I do understand how confusing it is with all this two sketches business.

 

[sandy_80]

they bring up the serial killer question which comes from ( you dont wake up one day and kill two children ) ...
but if he is a serial killer then he has an MO...if he targets young victims ...then violent murders of young victims are much easier to trace than adults ? as they are less common these days...
unless it's missing ( abduction ) victims ..and that is dead end ..
I am not exactly a fan of this theory ... starting small and then going bigger is easier to comprehend

 

[Kimmer]

I can understand both points of view and respect both if you for them, this is a theory that I have had for a long while, I have reasons but they are not in MSM so I am unable to them at this time.

 

[margarita25]

I can understand both points of view and respect both if you for them, this is a theory that I have had for a long while, I have reasons but they are not in MSM so I am unable to them at this time.

Same here, @Kimmer. Everything is on the table, and we are all speculating based on the crazy inconsistencies. I appreciate all viewpoints and discussions, and frankly nobody knows anything. Who knows how this will turn out. Birds of a feather do flock together. I just saw a cold case the other day, where an 11 year old girl is still missing, but there were 3 pervs implicated in her case.

Based on the FBI poster, mentioning one perp...

Gah. This is such a sad, frustrating situation, and I can’t even imagine how Abby’s and Libby’s families must be feeling.

God knows we all want an arrest in this case so badly, for the girls and their families, and for their community.

May 2021 be the year.

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I’m thinking DNA on the victims may have been washed off in the creek.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe both official sketches have the same composite information (height and weight range, reddish-brown hair, etc).

 

[margarita25]

If there were two people, why aren’t they in the bridge photo?

 

[margarita25]

My theory is that when this first happened they made the original sketch bases on what they had been told by an witness, I think once they isolated and listened to the recording on the phone they heard 2 male voices. Hence changing the direction of their investigation and during that investigation they received more info that was what the 2nd sketch was made from, I think it is not one sketch or the other I think it is both.

So question, if this is the case, then why wouldn’t they say they’ve isolated two voices on the recording?

(again, respectful discussion, no drama here lol)

 

[Skully]

Best guess, if BG is just there for that day, why is he there? I am assuming he is from the area and came back for some reason. Hunting trip, visiting family, or friends, or just decided to go there just in case the opportunity to kill that day is there. He is prepared, so I think it is a planned trip to the park, but why that day? Also what kind of job opportunities are there in Delphi, if he worked there in the past? Just wondering...

 

[minazoe]

I thought that BG was 100 percent responsible for the murders. while they did not say they ruled out 2 killers, they did not entertain the idea or elaborate. maybe they can't rule out a driver ( maybe unwitting) or a lookout.

I stay in the camp of one perpetrator. mOO