Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[ShamelessObserver]

I watched the 2019 PC last night for the first time. It sounded to me like LE knew who the killer was but just didn't have quite enough evidence to make an arrest. When the LE officer says 'he may even be in this room' that told me a lot. Perhaps BG was even helping with the whole investigation at some stage? They also said that they think BG is from Delphi too.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

I've emailed my questions to the Carroll County email address:

Do you have a prime suspect in mind?

When will more information regarding the crime scene be released which may help the investigation?

Do you believe you know the person or persons responsible but lack the evidence to charge them?

Has the killer ever contacted LE to mock the investigation?

Do you think the killer still lives in Delphi?

Was the killer known to Abby or Libby do you believe?

If the killer is still in Delphi why not use DNA profiling to find him? For example, ask all the males in Delphi to submit their DNA to you so they can rule themselves out of the investigation... this could help narrow down a pool of suspects who refuse to submit their DNA

I doubt they'll even get asked and if they do they won't get answered. But what's wrong with trying??

 

[somequestions]

Respectfully snipped. I am not sure they think he is from Delphi, I think they wonder if he has/had a connection to Delphi.

Usually, the explanation why LE think a certain way, is way more simple, once we get to know the details of the case. For example, in KB's case, initially a lot of assumptions were tied up to her being a pilot. We tried to explain her phone pinging off the towers in ID by it being thrown out of the plane into the gorge. We did not know that the LE could trace the phones traveling together, first to PF's house, then, to ID. We did not see the recording they saw.

I think that here, the explanation, too, will be more simple, we just don't know enough.

But since we don't, my theory is, the guy merely knew his way around Delphi too well. Remember how LE said, "he moved around quickly"? To me, it means that the killer might have known some shortcuts, and of their existence, we have no clue. Just some back gate, or else. He had the knowledge to move quickly, and there is something in the crime that can be explained by this knowledge.

I am not sure that the girls crossed the creek, and so did the guy. I have an inner feeling that he was not wet when he was escaping. Maybe there are some shortcuts to get to the CS bypassing the creek, but only the locals know them? Perhaps there are some details that one can't figure out by visiting the place, and the guy knew them?

(It's like, if someone breaks into the house, we can be wondering how there is no evidence of the perp on the neighbor's camera, and how he managed not to leave traces, but maybe he lives behind the house, and observed the owners hiding the key under the back door rug, you know? And all activity is in the back yard.)

Yesterday one poster remembered Christine Jessop's case. Maybe in Delphi case the assumption is wrong in a way similar to hers, hence the Delphi killer can not be found? In Jessop case, the suspect was someone close - an odd neighbor. And, the fact that someone else, close enough to Christine, could have heard from his wife about the kid being home alone, never occurs to anyone, you know? Because between him and Jessop, stands one more person, his wife.

Here, I think, it is something similar. The perp. was close to the girls' orbit, but not in it, and was connected to someone who knew them. This is why he is not noticed, nor did they recognize him,, he is one person away from them. And that one person is not even considered, because, like Jessop's wife, it is a woman?

JMO

The killer's possible connection to Delphi, Indiana could be anyone who knew about the Monon High Bridge trail. That is how I interpret what investigators have said about the Monon High Bridge location because they have no idea who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

If a person lived or worked in Delphi, Indiana in the late 90's and during this time hears from a co-worker or friend about this unique place called the Monon High Bridge, doesn't that equal having a connection to the place? Maybe they even visited it when they lived or worked in Delphi in the 90's. Then they move to California and live there for the next 20 - 30 years.

In my opinion that person who lived or worked in Delphi, Indiana in the 90's would have as much a connection to the Monon High Bridge trail as someone who currently lives or works in Delphi, IN. Basically anyone in the United States, Canada, or even the world who has heard, visited, or researched the location of the Monon High Bridge would fit this category.

 

[Charlot123]

The killer's possible connection to Delphi, Indiana could be anyone who knew about the Monon High Bridge trail. That is how I interpret what investigators have said about the Monon High Bridge location because they have no idea who killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

If a person lived or worked in Delphi, Indiana in the late 90's and during this time hears from a co-worker or friend about this unique place called the Monon High Bridge, doesn't that equal having a connection to the place? Maybe they even visited it when they lived or worked in Delphi in the 90's. Then they move to California and live there for the next 20 - 30 years.

In my opinion that person who lived or worked in Delphi, Indiana in the 90's would have as much a connection to the Monon High Bridge trail as someone who currently lives or works in Delphi, IN. Basically anyone in the United States, Canada, or even the world who has heard, visited, or researched the location of the Monon High Bridge would fit this category.

There is a site bridgehunter.com, but I think one has to know what is going on in Delphi, and around the bridge.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

There are three videos fresh to YouTube. One is the Delphi related segment on tonight's CBS 4 news in Indianapolis, plus two Web extra videos. The interview subjects are former Carroll County Prosecutor Robert Ives and Jay Abbott, the retired special agent in charge of the FBI's Indianapolis division.

From the news segment, the highlight is that Ives believes more info should be released, saying after four years he believes the advantages to withholding have diminished, and there are greater advantages to releasing..."it might ring a bell." Ives concedes he is not an expert on the topic.

Ives' web extra is essentially an expanded version of his podcast interview from last year. Same themes. He says there was so much evidence at the scene, and the crime discovered so quickly, that even during the '60s without cell phones or DNA evidence everyone would have assumed it would be wrapped up in 2 or 3 days. Abbott hates to say it but he now believes this might not be solved until the murderer commits again, then confesses to Delphi. Identical to the podcast interview, Ives says in 2017 he initially believed it had to be local perpetrator. But since there doesn't appear to be any motivation for the murders, and they haven't been solved, Ives believes it could be..."a serial killer type of thing"..."a random act by someone who isn't around here all the time."

The Jay Abbott web extra had a yikes moment, at least for me. He begins by detailing the extraordinary manpower in the early days, more than 100 investigators working on the case. Then Abbott emphasizes what most impressed him when he visited the command center: They began the day with a prayer. He repeats how impressed he was with that.

I guess nobody has to wonder why Doug Carter has control and free reign. In fact, Abbott says he and his wife often get together for dinner with Carter and his wife.

Abbott says he is exasperated and frustrated. He is the first besides Ives to mention signature left at the scene, but he does so in singular tense. More than once he says signature and not signatures. Ives and Abbott may have varying interpretation. Abbott says things occurred and things were found at the crime scene that only the killer would know. He makes it clear the families have not been told about those aspects.

Difficult to listen to Jay Abbott in this video and cling to the conclusion that they know who did it. As I mentioned, Abbott remains tight with Carter. Abbott's emphasis near the end of the video is that they need somebody to come forward and provide the crucial tip..."There's someone out there who knows something, who knows the person, who knows something about the murder, that person is either afraid to come forward -- because they are fearful -- or maybe they even feel themselves being complicit in some way."

Abbott repeats the Ives theme that everyone assumed this would be solved quickly:

"...the numerous things that we had at our disposal, all the information and evidence that existed, it just boggles the mind..."

 

[stattlich1]

So, what 'so much physical evidence' at the scene of this crime would lead LE to conclude they would solve it within a couple days?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've emailed my questions to the Carroll County email address:

Do you have a prime suspect in mind?

When will more information regarding the crime scene be released which may help the investigation?

Do you believe you know the person or persons responsible but lack the evidence to charge them?

Has the killer ever contacted LE to mock the investigation?

Do you think the killer still lives in Delphi?

Was the killer known to Abby or Libby do you believe?

If the killer is still in Delphi why not use DNA profiling to find him? For example, ask all the males in Delphi to submit their DNA to you so they can rule themselves out of the investigation... this could help narrow down a pool of suspects who refuse to submit their DNA

I doubt they'll even get asked and if they do they won't get answered. But what's wrong with trying??

Trying is allowed, you are right, but I don't believe, they will answer your questions. I don't have an idea myself, what important question to ask, which would be useful for us and answerable at all.

 

[Peppery]

What kind of tip could someone provide that would seal the deal for LE? Other than so and so told me he did it, nothing else, IMO. Someone saying they know someone who acted strange after the murder, or followed it closely, or called out of work that day, none of that is going to make LE say NOW we know who he is and can go get him. I want to know what info they need from the public

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Perhaps I would ask the following (but I won't send an email):

Did at least one of the witnesses see a suspect person with wet trousers?
Did at least one of the witnesses see a suspect person changing their clothing?
Did at least one of the witnesses see the same suspect person 2 times, who had changed their clothing between the sightings?
Have the statements of the witnesses be the same or similar or are the statements contradicting to each other?
In what are they contradicting to each other: face, body or clothing of the same suspect person?
If clothing: what clothing was seen (casual, sports, other)?
If shoes: which different shoes were seen (type of shoes)?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I would verrry much like to ask: what is that white thing sticking out of the jacket of BG?

I'm always thinking, it might be helpful to know.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

I would verrry much like to ask: what is that white thing sticking out of the jacket of BG?

I'm always thinking, it might be helpful to know.

I will just send your questions to them but via my email so they're sent through me? Some very good questions in there.

 

[Yemelyan]

In 2017 why was it necessary to physically stumble upon the bridge?

Let's say Abby and Libby had indeed been catfished. And that person lived in Nebraska. He had never visited Indiana previously until February 13, 2017. Seemingly the followers of this case would be more willing to accept and understand that scenario, than of an aspiring perpetrator who targeted isolated areas including trails, becoming well aware of Monon High Bridge via that method.

IMO, the new realities of security cameras all over the place, plus DNA as the great identifier, are naturally going to lead to evolution of one-time killers as well as serial killers. They have to adjust to the times. For whatever reason we are determined to rely on conclusions and methodology of olden eras.

As a handicapper, if I switched professions to killer I know darn well I'd make sure I would only kill somebody I didn't know. I'd make darn sure I'd kill somebody in an area that I couldn't be connected to. I'd make darn sure it was an area without cameras and where I could prepare and take my time to make sure not to leave DNA. I'd make sure there was an easy getaway route so that I'd be long gone before the victim was discovered and anyone was looking for a killer.

Those are only a handful of variables. Seemingly so easy to prioritize. Yet law enforcement and the vast percentage of the public prefers to believe that each and every one of them is being thrown away:

Hey, I know her. I'll kill her. I'll kill her just after catfishing her. I'll kill her after catfishing her in an area where I live and am well known. I'll kill her after catfishing her in an area where I live and am well known and I'll do so on a school snow day after telling everyone I know that I'm well aware it's a school snow day.

And so forth. I just don't get it. These guys are specialists. Just because they are specialists in an evil realm that the rest of us can't relate to doesn't mean we should ignore that they are specialists and devoting the 10,000 hours toward their craft.

@Awsi Dooger I'm a fan of your contributions. They always make us think and question our assumptions, which is what we should be doing.

I wanted to add one variable, or piece of information that I think is important. You laid out for us the rational decisions you would make if you were to be one a killer. You'd travel to a place nobody knows you. You'd choose victims at random so they couldn't be traced to you. Now consider why a ton of killers apparently don't do that (obviously there also may be tons that do, we just aren't catching them). The reason that geographic profiling often works, that these predators abduct kids in the neighborhood, or off the streets near where they work, that they tend to leave the bodies of their victims in places they intimately know, is that many of these offenders have extremely poor impulse control. A lot of them are incapable of being an Israel Keyes, either because due to their previous behaviors they have limited resources to travel around or because of their almost addiction-like need to offend whenever a "good" opportunity arises.

I'd agree with you that they do spend hours honing their "craft," but I'd say that a lot of this is working on the twisted emotional intelligence that helps them recognize good opportunities for predation.

As you know, I'm not a believer in the catfishing angle for the Delphi case. I do think there's a good possibility this person is pretty far out on the edges of what could be considered "local" - a neighboring county, or Kokomo, Lafayette, Logansport.

And on another note, I think LE's offer to answer questions from the community is their hope that the person who knows the offender's identity will ask a question to confirm that their suspicions are correct and that this will give them impetus to act on that knowledge.

JMO.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

I know this is a bit ridiculous, but has anybody considered the fact that in the video BG might be wearing a mask? It popped into my head last night, the skin on his face seems awfully lose and saggy IMO and for some reason I thought it could be a mask.

Just a hunch anyway and could be a part of a disguise if so. You can't see BG's neck either, it looks like he's covering it up. Just a brief thought and probably that's all it is. Imagine if BG was a prosthetic makeup artist or something so literally disguised how he looked!

I still don't get why he allowed himself to be filmed (he must've seen it in his periphery) but didn't destroy the girls' cellphones.

ALL MOO.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

In the 2019 April PC, as the officer talks about the new video clip and audio they were about to release, he states that:

'The person speaking in the audio is the same person in the video, who is on the bridge with the girls'

But how do they know that?? How can they make that call for sure. I wonder if there's more video or audio that confirms it or something.

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Oh! I just got a response on email from the Carroll County people. It reads:

'Thank you for your interest in the case and your questions from your emails'

Susan Scholl,

Editor

 

[steeltowngirl]

German said investigators, who are aware of the app, have insisted their work in finding her sister’s murderer is far from over.

"They told me, ‘We’re never going to stop, no matter what anyone says. We’re not stopping. We’re not giving up. And we never will,’" German recalled. "To them, it’s not a cold case. And I think that’s so important for people to hear. Because a lot of people think there are no tips or updates coming in. But there’s so much more happening behind the scenes that I don’t get to see."

Golden State Killer investigator explains how an app can ‘absolutely’ help solve cases like Delphi murders

 

[MistyWaters]

What kind of tip could someone provide that would seal the deal for LE? Other than so and so told me he did it, nothing else, IMO. Someone saying they know someone who acted strange after the murder, or followed it closely, or called out of work that day, none of that is going to make LE say NOW we know who he is and can go get him. I want to know what info they need from the public

It seems to me the information LE is seeking is far more than somebody who resembles the man on the bridge or one of the sketches. The behavioural traits were valuable early on but now four years have passed. LE requires specific details that click into place with details the investigation has already uncovered.
JMO

A good tip - BBM
https://www.wrtv.com/delphi-investi...across-the-country-to-find-libby-abbys-killer
That includes things like:

• Suspect Name
• Date of Birth or Approximate Age
• Physical Description (i.e. height, weight, hair color, eye color)
• Specific Address or Location Last Seen
• Specific Vehicle Descriptions (i.e. license plate, year, make, model, color)
• Specific Reason for Tip (i.e. Why could they be the suspect?
• Motivation for Crime
• Connection to Delphi

 

[TL4S]

It seems to me the information LE is seeking is far more than somebody who resembles the man on the bridge or one of the sketches. The behavioural traits were valuable early on but now four years have passed. LE requires specific details that click into place with details the investigation has already uncovered.
JMO

A good tip - BBM
https://www.wrtv.com/delphi-investi...across-the-country-to-find-libby-abbys-killer
That includes things like:

• Suspect Name
• Date of Birth or Approximate Age
• Physical Description (i.e. height, weight, hair color, eye color)
• Specific Address or Location Last Seen
• Specific Vehicle Descriptions (i.e. license plate, year, make, model, color)
• Specific Reason for Tip (i.e. Why could they be the suspect?
• Motivation for Crime
• Connection to Delphi

I wonder since LE asks about motivate in both the CBS 4 news clip posted above, and in the WRTV article, if that means there was no sexual assault. Would that not be considered a motive? And the COD must not have made the motive apparent, either?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I wonder since LE asks about motivate in both the CBS 4 news clip posted above, and in the WRTV article, if that means there was no sexual assault. Would that not be considered a motive? And the COD must not have made the motive apparent, either?

I hadn’t really thought about that but that is a good point.
It could be maybe that by hearing a proposed motive LE can weed out the crazier tips.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I wonder since LE asks about motivate in both the CBS 4 news clip posted above, and in the WRTV article, if that means there was no sexual assault. Would that not be considered a motive? And the COD must not have made the motive apparent, either?

We don’t know if they were sexually assaulted, but if they were, I consider that an outcome. The motivation for a sexual assault could be one or many: sexual, rage, violence, humiliation, revenge, thrill (as examples).

jmo