Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[Skully]

This is a direct quote from the statement released by ISP immediately after the April 22 2019 press conference:

“As Superintendent Carter said today, "We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

It’s up for debate I guess on what this witness actually witnessed.
I took this to be separate from the people that contributed to the first sketch. Two years later, and still no arrest...I’m sure this “witness” matters that much anymore.

Oh, I thought the "witness" was the cell phone video.

 

[sunshineray]

Oh, I thought the "witness" was the cell phone video.

We've got to remember what Anna Williams confirmed recently on that podcast. She was told 50 plus people were in and around the area where all the events happened that day. That's a lot of eyes. I could believe that more than one set of eyes saw something of consequence that day...JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Four years in, I’d love to know what (if anything) LE would do differently with the investigation - if they could go back in time and start over. From the first moment the girls were reported missing. It could tell us something about what they have learned.

Spoiler alert: They won’t be telling us. Purely my own wish.

 

[Boxer]

Great question!

 

[Rocky1]

Four years in, I’d love to know what (if anything) LE would do differently with the investigation - if they could go back in time and start over. From the first moment the girls were reported missing. It could tell us something about what they have learned.

Spoiler alert: They won’t be telling us. Purely my own wish.

I have a few ideas, but they are just a guess.

1. I think they would have not called off the search the night the girls went missing, and would have searched all night. Perhaps one may still be alive.
2. I don't think they would have released the sketch, until they were sure what this guy looked like. Once they did that, their credibility was shot.
3. I think (or hope) they would have had someone else besides Sargent Carter speaking at the press conferences. The theatrics were way overboard imo.

Of course, it's always easy to Monday morning quarterback.

 

[303gmf]

My guess is it's one of two things.
Either Sargent Carter was bluffing again, or he's talking about someone that saw a car parked at the welfare building.

Unpopular opinion here it seems , but IMO
D Carter seems to like to pontificate a bit too much for professionalism or believability

 

[Peppery]

maybe he called someone for a ride..and that person took him out of the park not knowing ?

This has been my thought for awhile. And this is the person LE are hoping calls in. They would be the person who’s info would blow the case wide open. I think this person has probably been scared out of their mind since they connected the dots, likely within a few days of the crime. I don’t think BG ever discussed anything with this person and probably had a reasonable excuse for being wet, dirty or bloody (I fell into the creek and got wet and scraped up). AND I think someone saw a wet, dirty BG leaving or getting into a car and that’s how LE knows the driver exists. The “witness” is who saw BG getting into a vehicle but saw him from behind or at a distance so didn’t get a look at his face. All MOO

 

[303gmf]

I have a few ideas, but they are just a guess.

1. I think they would have not called off the search the night the girls went missing, and would have searched all night. Perhaps one may still be alive.
2. I don't think they would have released the sketch, until they were sure what this guy looked like. Once they did that, their credibility was shot.
3. I think (or hope) they would have had someone else besides Sargent Carter speaking at the press conferences. The theatrics were way overboard imo.

Of course, it's always easy to Monday morning quarterback.

Agree, especially on calling off the search
High powered flash lights, headband lights, many ways to not let sunset interfere in a search
As a parent myself of daughters this is one of the most frustrating aspects

 

[swedeheart]

Update from Mike:

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This has been my thought for awhile. And this is the person LE are hoping calls in. They would be the person who’s info would blow the case wide open. I think this person has probably been scared out of their mind since they connected the dots, likely within a few days of the crime. I don’t think BG ever discussed anything with this person and probably had a reasonable excuse for being wet, dirty or bloody (I fell into the creek and got wet and scraped up). AND I think someone saw a wet, dirty BG leaving or getting into a car and that’s how LE knows the driver exists. The “witness” is who saw BG getting into a vehicle but saw him from behind or at a distance so didn’t get a look at his face. All MOO

This is a very interesting thought. I have thought along these lines before but not in a while and not in this detail.
I think this is very plausible. It connects some things into a pretty believable story. I really like this.

 

[Yemelyan]

because the killer left 3 signatures and this points to a seasoned killer, I feel like it is unlikely
that this is some friend of a friend...not impossible, but I think the nature of the crime suggests something else...Serials tend to avoid murdering people in their own circle or associated to as they want to avoid being discovered.


mOO

Snipped and bolded by me...regarding the bolded part, how do you know that leaving three signatures equals a "seasoned" killer? Are you trying to say that serial offenders leave no signatures on their first crime, one signature in their second murder, two in their third, and so on? Because that's definitely not how investigators view signatures...I think it is an incorrect assumption that signatures equal criminal experience.

Signatures are not defined by whether or not they occur in series. They are only defined as outward manifestations of the inner psychological urge that led to the crime. Take this example:

Charles Albright is believed to be the murderer of at least three women in Texas in the early 90s. He had an early fascination with violence and his mother took some of the small animals he killed to a taxidermist. He developed a fixation on taxidermy, especially the removal of the eyes. He killed his victims, who were sex workers, by beating and shooting them. He also removed their eyes.

Removing their eyes was not in any way necessary to kill them. He did that for his own pleasure and it was a clear reflection of a fantasy or a psychological urge that likely grew out of documented experiences in his troubled childhood. So my question is, has he been caught after the first victim, would we not call the eye removal a signature? Or would we recognize it for what it was, the personation of his fantasy in the crime? Yes, this feature of the killings did ultimately link all three of his murders as the work of one extremely evil and disturbed man, but that does not mean that in the first killing it wasn't a signature.

I'm also thinking of the killer Roger Kibbe. He had several signatures, and used them even on his first crime in the series (tying the victim with a particular type of cord that was special to him, cutting their clothing, and cutting their hair).

I've mentioned Jessica Ridgway's killer here before. He only committed one murder because he was caught fairly quickly but he performed several signatures in his first attempt: hair cutting, re-dressing, souvenir taking, and inserting a cross in the victim's remains. He later tried to say the cross part was re-direction but investigators were able to show that the cross had direct ties to the psychological reasons that he decided to kill. So if you looked at all the signatures this offender left and claimed they had to be the work of an experienced killer, you might have overlooked the teenage suspect who actually committed the crime.

The more I think about the Delphi case, the more I question the idea that he was experienced. IMO the only highly correlated conclusion we can draw from signatures is that the offender is driven by psychosexual urges and is highly likely to seek out more experiences in which to express those urges, i.e. offend again.


All MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

I have a few ideas, but they are just a guess.

1. I think they would have not called off the search the night the girls went missing, and would have searched all night. Perhaps one may still be alive.
2. I don't think they would have released the sketch, until they were sure what this guy looked like. Once they did that, their credibility was shot.
3. I think (or hope) they would have had someone else besides Sargent Carter speaking at the press conferences. The theatrics were way overboard imo.

Of course, it's always easy to Monday morning quarterback.

I think the reason the search was called off was a matter of logistics and resourcing. A small place the size of Delphi with a volunteer fire dept etc....probably not much happens at night and emergency response work on an on-call basis. So I’m also guessing the majority of the searchers out that evening had already been up since daybreak. If so, in making a call by midnight to stop the search, I’d think it’s reasonable to let volunteer searchers have a few hours sleep at least and start afresh in the morning. I’d be very surprised if Delphi has a large crew of overnight shift workers or if the sort of townsfolk who volunteered would be capable of conducting a competent search going beyond 16 or more hours without any sleep.

Smaller communities are not like urban centres that have good reason to resource their police and fire departments with an equal number of employees day and night.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I think, it is possible, someone witnessed BG (and maybe an accomplice) in the vicinity of the crime scene or near a certain car, and maybe they recognized YBG (in counting 2 and 2 together). When it dawned on them, who could be/is BG, they began to fear his mental and also his monetary power as well as his many assumed supporters/connections. So possible witnesses (certainly hoping, pleading secretly for LE's success) will leave it to someone else to report details or a name. I would do the same, probably. Every man for himself, would be the (slightly immoral) motto. When the crime had happened, they couldn't help the poor girls anymore, and since then they want to help only themselves - perhaps. If there are witnesses indeed, they have no nerves left for the years of sadness of the 2 affected families German and Williams.

Maybe, ISP would also be pretty happy, if LE from another state (TX only for example) would catch BG first? Idk.
IMO

Yes, I am putting myself in the shoes of a possible witness. If the person is having an established life and is respected (and hence, believed), think of how it might change. Uprooting and becoming a protected witness? A horrible life if you were, say, a local dentist or a major business owner.

Also, they are probably protecting their families.

Maybe if they retire, or the perp retires, it could all change.

 

[Charlot123]

Another theory that I never saw discussed here. (I try to be logical in what I know, but where I don’t have enough information, I tend to connect the unconnected dots, so, sorry...)

I just read one historical detective, and in that story, it was mentioned that the DNA of one of the victims, examined decades afterwards, did not match any of his relatives. The detectives assumed that a different person inserted himself among the victims and was killed, but reconstruction of the face indicated that it looked very much like the life portraits of the guy. The newer theory is that the man acquired a different name and documents during the war, and lived under a different name all those years. It happens.

Thinking in parallel...I wonder if whatever DNA they had, they planned to submit to Parabon, but realized that familial genealogy would yield nothing ? Because whoever they suspect lives under a different name? And they don’t have enough reason to ask him for his DNA sample directly?

 

[Rocky1]

I think the reason the search was called off was a matter of logistics and resourcing. A small place the size of Delphi with a volunteer fire dept etc....probably not much happens at night and emergency response work on an on-call basis. So I’m also guessing the majority of the searchers out that evening had already been up since daybreak. If so, in making a call by midnight to stop the search, I’d think it’s reasonable to let volunteer searchers have a few hours sleep at least and start afresh in the morning. I’d be very surprised if Delphi has a large crew of overnight shift workers or if the sort of townsfolk who volunteered would be capable of conducting a competent search going beyond 16 or more hours without any sleep.

Smaller communities are not like urban centres that have good reason to resource their police and fire departments with an equal number of employees day and night.

JMO

I agree. I'm not saying they let a girl die knowing they were in the predicament they were in. I'm sure that if anyone thought they were in a life or death situation, things would have gone differently.

I think the question was "If they could go back and do it over, what would they do different."
The ISP has helicopters that have "Nightsun" searchlights attached to them and they turn the night into day. They could have used tracking dogs as well.

 

[Algo214]

Because whoever they suspect lives under a different name?

Sniped and BBM for focus

But couldn't they cross-check that information with name changes? is that info even kept in a register or log by some government office?

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Either he’s moved away from Delphi or he’s someone who we would least expect. I wonder if LE’s assertion that BG is from Delphi means people are looking in that area for the suspect. But what if he’s not there anymore, maybe he moved away long before the murders but this is somewhere he decided to ‘hunt’ for a victim, he could be a homeless person drifting from state to state, an isolated person who is quiet, lonely, has few relatives or people that care about him. I don’t think he’s clever, I think him being able to stay free for this long is sheer luck and coincidence. He’s lucky enough that he’s one of these people that just blends in to the background, he doesn’t stand out as someone capable of this. I don’t think he’s ‘experienced’ either, I think it was something he’s been building up to for a while and I think he’s long gone from Delphi by now, possibly even out of Indiana. He’s probably shaved his head and settled in a new town.

I also can’t help thinking he could be someone who drinks a lot, simply by his gait and the way he walks.

I think he will strike again, may already have done but it won’t be anywhere near where the girls were killed and the connection won’t be noticed. I think this was his first murder, he’s possibly someone who has been abusive to women in the past. He may have raped before but it either wasn’t reported or he wasn’t caught.

I think he laid low for a while after this happened. I think he is an older man, Delphi was probably his home town or somewhere he grew up or visited as a child so he knows the trails. But it was long enough ago that he has no family that still live there so a connection has not been made. He’s probably trying to blend in amongst a homeless community somewhere or staying with a relative, or acquaintance.

I think his crimes will only come to light if one of his relatives or a previous girlfriend come forward with information about his past. I think it will be someone who has changed their appearance dramatically since their family last saw them. Someone who’s childhood was difficult and their strange behaviour was swept under the carpet, maybe abuse and violence was normal to him growing up and any living relatives do not want to bring up past trauma so they put their doubts to one side. I think he’s become resentful towards women, maybe a possible incel who’s been rejected by every woman in their lives.

Or maybe he’s just a ‘bad egg’ and people who know him are either too scared or just don’t talk to police. I think they should be looking at people who lived in the area 20-30 years ago, someone who had problems at home and who ended up estranged from his family. That’s just my take anyway, I must also admit I do think that the first sketch was more accurate than the second. All MOO of course.

 

[TL4S]

Another theory that I never saw discussed here. (I try to be logical in what I know, but where I don’t have enough information, I tend to connect the unconnected dots, so, sorry...)

I just read one historical detective, and in that story, it was mentioned that the DNA of one of the victims, examined decades afterwards, did not match any of his relatives. The detectives assumed that a different person inserted himself among the victims and was killed, but reconstruction of the face indicated that it looked very much like the life portraits of the guy. The newer theory is that the man acquired a different name and documents during the war, and lived under a different name all those years. It happens.

Thinking in parallel...I wonder if whatever DNA they had, they planned to submit to Parabon, but realized that familial genealogy would yield nothing ? Because whoever they suspect lives under a different name? And they don’t have enough reason to ask him for his DNA sample directly?

I suppose other situations that might make the familial and genealogical matching less helpful might be in cases where the killer was adopted, unknown to the father, or there were no other criminals in the family. JMO

This is a very interesting thought. I have thought along these lines before but not in a while and not in this detail.
I think this is very plausible. It connects some things into a pretty believable story. I really like this.

My only question with this scenario would be how did the killer get to the trails to begin with? Unless his car wouldn't start, or he lost his keys or something?

 

[Thelastleg]

Dbm

 

[Charlot123]

.

Sniped and BBM for focus

But couldn't they cross-check that information with name changes? is that info even kept in a register or log by some government office?

Name changes are not always straightforward.

I haven't Googled it, how many people in any large country could potentially live under a different name/identity, but I suppose, quite a few. These situations were more common after wars, you always read about it, but even in peaceful times, people might have had reasons to disappear.

Only it indicates very rapid course of events.
Think of it. Somewhere in the end of 2018-2019, there are talks about Parabon. In April, there is a PC that closes everything.

My two different versions:

A) they submitted DNA to the Parabon. Maybe knowing whose DNA it was. And suddenly, the Parabon reaches a dead end. Matches don't match the area, etc. LE realizes that something is very different in the suspect's story. All they have is phenotypic analysis, they make a half-hearted sketch from it, because nothing else can be done.

B) they plan to send the DNA to the Parabon, but somewhere in the beginning of 2019 they get the information that it would be waste of money. Because the perp was conceived via embryo donation, because he lives under a different name, or something equally apt to reach the dead end. This DNA, it could still be usable, but not for today.