Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[Beachlife926]

He may not have had a real gun either. If he did, he didn't want to shoot them, because of all the people at the park, and it would draw attention to them. He took a big risk, because if one of the girls took off, or both, he had a problem. He wasn't smart, he was stupid, he just had some luck on his side, for now.

I agree and thought about the big risk he took if they screamed and someone could hear it. I don’t know if he threatened them not to scream, or they did and no one could hear them :-(

 

[Angels27]

yeah you’re right.

I just rewatched PC 2 from 2017 and DC is saying for sure that BG IS the killer and that YG sketch 2 is also the BG/killer. Wow. How can it be the same person? They looks so different in every way possible.

Correction. sorry I meant PC from 2019.

 

[Angels27]

Firstly, I will say that I don’t necessarily believe anybody at the trails saw the killer that day. Who gave the information for the young guy sketch, no one knows. Where and when and what that person saw they thought needed reporting, we don’t know.
Secondly, something I think people fail to realize about the video on the bridge are the very severe shadows brought on by the sun’s angle. Add into that the poor quality of the image. If you look at the video almost frame by frame you will see the shadow shift dramatically and sometimes disappear between frames. The goatee we all thought we saw in the still photo for two years, disappears in many video frames. I think it’s a shadow. After being conditioned for two years to see the older guy, it was hard to let it go, but I now believe the younger sketch is closer to the guy on the bridge. The question then becomes, why did LE allow us to believe BG was an older guy for two years.
My thoughts. My theory of what happened is what I referenced earlier.

Aside from the video n how he looks - to me that voice sounds like at least a 50 year old man or older. I think maybe there are 2 perps. It’s crazy to think that 2 people would be that sick but who knows. Maybe this was done in revenge for something one of the older family members did or were perceived to have done, n the two guys worked together to “get the job done” quicker.

 

[squabble]

It’s interesting u say that, bc I was just thinking the opposite. Maybe they are thick as theives, maybe related or something. Maybe have dirt on the other or something. You know how when you have a secret to tell that’s too hard to keep in (usually with normal people it’s something good like an engagement, or new job or something, etc) it’s always good if you can tell it to one person and then you don’t have to spell it to the whole world or hint at it to others. Maybe that’s why they’ve been so quiet bc they actually have another to share it with. Their co-conspirator and that’s why it hasn’t gotten out in four years.

IMO, if you look at the two drawings, focusing only on the eyes, nose, and mouth, there appears to be a similarity in appearance. If I ignore the heavier jowls on the older guy, they look to me like they could be related.

 

[Angels27]

Questions about the town.

A town that small - 3000 ? people. I don’t think I’ve ever even been to a town that small. Maybe driven thru, so I have questions. Is there only one church? One high school? Does everyone know everyone else? If so, how well? Do people keep to themselves or get in everyone else’s business? Are there people or families there that possibly NO ONE knows? If LE went into a house or workplace to interview a POI would word get out fast n spread around town? Are drugs a problem there? If so, how wide-spread?

 

[Skully]

Just too many blank spots for me to settle on some things. Like is he a serial killer? Either in the HLN broadcast or the YouTube video where the HLN hosts talk about the case they mention using the FBI's ViCAP (Violent Criminal Apprehension Program). ViCAP is not even utilized by a majority of LE agencies, so this guy could have killed using a similar signature and a search of ViCAP would not turn up anything. Trying to control two victims, in a public place (e.g., not inside a private residence) and during the day almost makes me think he had the confidence he could do this. How? One obvious thought is that he has killed before, but where it was easier to conceal his actions from others and it was a single victim? Of course, he could have rehearsed this over and over in his mind and during a walk in that area or similar area and he drew his confidence from there. It didn't likely take him very long as he had probably confronted the girls around 2:20-2:30 PM (my estimate) and killed them before Liberty's father called around 3:00 PM. He did it quickly because he has done it before?

In addition to checking other murders I hope LE has checked into what might be botched abduction attempts. That is, this guy tried to do this before but using his vehicle or from another type of location like a mall parking lot. IOW, he figures this didn't work I need to try something else. Jesse Matthew killed two girls, Morgan Harrington and Hannah Graham in Virginia, but years earlier he attempted to rape another woman and this attempt failed. Even if such a person wasn't caught there might be other information such a description or a vehicle used.

Of course, another of the possibilities I've thought of is if his victim(s), previously or subsequently, are only listed as missing and LE hasn't found them in order to make the connection. This guy could have killed before, but only single victims. Also, just because he killed two young girls here doesn't mean that matches the type he has gone after before. Robert Brashers first known victim was a 28 yo woman in SC and two of his subsequent known victims were girls younger than 15.

All good points! The 83 case I linked above is a guy who didn't get caught in FL because he offended in WI and his victims where grown women, his MO changed and he didn't go to jail for raping 7 women, he went to a mental institute, not jail. So even if he was put in VICAP, he wouldn't have been a hit for FL.

The other thing BG took a chance on, was how did he know the girls weren't meeting up at the bridge with someone, like other kids, or even parents? He selected 2 girls that would be reported missing fast. He chose not to kidnap them, but take them not far from where they were headed and leave the bodies there. He took the chance that he wouldn't be caught due to someone coming up on him in the act. There was a house and barn just up the hill, there were people all around that day. So I agree, he most likely has done this before, but maybe the victimology is different or the bodies are not found, they are listed as missing. I don't think he thought they would be found so fast.

 

[Angels27]

I wonder if the girls were led elsewhere like to a shed or something nearby and then escaped and he killed them while they were running away. I think I read they were killed where found. Would be interesting to know what direction they were found facing. Hopeful the crime scene investigators will be able to tell. Also footprints should help.

 

[TheVisual]

Do you guys think it’s possible that the fbi somehow altered the video before releasing it? Like the face of the perp? I just started following this case so I don’t know when they first released that video, but I’d guess it was pretty soon after crime. Not even sure they can do that, but probably they can.

So why not release the real video instead of the pieced together video they did do. Gray Hughes did this before LE did it from the stills that had been released. I think (JMO) that they are hiding something from us that is in the video. Abby right behind BG and Libby's sleeve in the one photo.

 

[squabble]

Questions about the town.

A town that small - 3000 ? people. I don’t think I’ve ever even been to a town that small. Maybe driven thru, so I have questions. Is there only one church? One high school? Does everyone know everyone else? If so, how well? Do people keep to themselves or get in everyone else’s business? Are there people or families there that possibly NO ONE knows? If LE went into a house or workplace to interview a POI would word get out fast n spread around town? Are drugs a problem there? If so, how wide-spread?

I can't speak for Delphi, but I live in a community that has a little over 700 people in the area. There is only one high school. There are a few churches. Everyone knows everyone and their parents, and likely their grandparents. Yes, there is drug use. There is a lot of gossip. An interview with a person of interest would be noticed immediately with police cars outside the home. News would travel like fire. We are a small enough area that if something was off with someone, it would be noticed. Such as behavior around young girls.

 

[Optics]

Apology if the following has been discussed: Has anyone considered the possibility the BG does not have a full head of hair, but has a receding or bald head underneath the cap?

 

[Trocroc9]

So why not release the real video instead of the pieced together video they did do. Gray Hughes did this before LE did it from the stills that had been released. I think (JMO) that they are hiding something from us that is in the video. Abby right behind BG and Libby's sleeve in the one photo.

I think they are only hiding what would make us as humans want to throw up. I think it’s the girls voicing fear. I think it’s them knowing he has a gun and the realization that they are in serious trouble. I don’t think there is a lot to this video. Only 60 seconds of snapchat.

 

[stattlich1]

I want to clarify something.

"The new sketch released Monday afternoon is now the primary suspect in the murders of Libby and Abby, according to Indiana State Police. The initial sketch released in July 2017 is now considered "secondary" in the case."

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

"The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch... is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls," Carter said.

I have always assumed the sketch is the man on the bridge, however, I don't think Carter says that explicitly. Is there some place where that connection is actually made? Where LE indicates definitively that the new sketch is the man on the bridge?

https://www.wrtv.com/delphi-murders-isp-say-new-audio-video-and-sketch-shows-libby-abbys-killer

 

[Charlot123]

He may not have had a real gun either. If he did, he didn't want to shoot them, because of all the people at the park, and it would draw attention to them. He took a big risk, because if one of the girls took off, or both, he had a problem. He wasn't smart, he was stupid, he just had some luck on his side, for now.

We don’t know the read motive. If it was purely sexual and thrill, with the element of “I am going to commit this perfect crime”, then, he is very smart.

But it suddenly hit me that the reason for the murders could be more practical. Sexualized, yes, but it is secondary.

I read about the arrest of pedophiles in another state and suddenly thought, why not in Indiana?

Here is the perfect reason for a crime like this. One does not need to trade kids into slavery. It is enough to obtain *advertiser censored* images of young teenagers, even paying them, and then sell this stuff online. The guy can live anywhere, I think, he is semi-local, but he can operate from any house. He probably has to have good Internet access, this is all.

And imagine that one day, a girl, instead of becoming the next victim, or maybe hearing from a victim, suddenly threatens to oust him out. It is a lot of money to lose, it is a huge threat. Loss of business, loss of prestige.

This would be the reason to commit the crime. And because the guy is into such stuff himself, since he sells it, the CS looks ghastly, but exactly in the way to make people cringe.

I doubt he sold those photos on the dark web. The goal was to create distraction, like, serial killer, signatures, etc. IRL, the guy lives for money, and he killed because he thought one of the girls was danger.

So, he is, sort of, local, maybe not Delphi local. He may even be religious. He doesn’t stand out because all his special gifts are good IT skills and strong Internet. And he probably has contacts with some criminals, but minimal ones. He also lives slightly above the means, but to those who are curious, he explains it by trading in cryptocurrency. (He probably does it, too.)

This is my portrait of the perpetrator for today. Smart? Yes, but rather, organized, not impulsive. In this, he belongs to the minority, as he can postpone instant gratification.

Also, he is probably well-read and quietly despises his bosses as he thinks he is way more knowledgeable and sophisticated, but he doesn’t show it.

 

[Betty P]

Apology if the following has been discussed: Has anyone considered the possibility the BG does not have a full head of hair, but has a receding or bald head underneath the cap?

The second sketch shows BG with a full head of hair. Whomever saw him that day and helped create that sketch saw him without a cap or hat and with a full head of hair. That's why I don't necessarily agree with the tv show about the possibility the different sketches were different impressions remembered by different witnesses.

The average age of perps for this type of crime is relatively young, most certainly under the age of 40. I takes someone with strength, endurance and quick reflexes to kidnap, control, assault and murder two adolescent girls while navigating rough terrain, running up and down hills, across a wide creek, climbing up a creek bank, etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

....<snipped to reply>
I have always assumed the sketch is the man on the bridge, however, I don't think Carter says that explicitly. Is there some place where that connection is actually made? Where LE indicates definitively that the new sketch is the man on the bridge?

ISP Press Release - Apr 22, 2019
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect


“This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We don’t know where LÊ obtained it from. If from Libby’s camera, no need to as it was very pixelated. If from elsewhere, hard to tell how it was processed. Maybe it is a red herring, some random video that was intentionally planted into her phone; that could explain why the phone was pinging at 2:30 AM.

UPDATE: Police say photo of suspect in Delphi homicides came from teen’s phone; audio released of man’s voice | Fox 59

On Feb 22 2017, LE stated the audio and the photo(from the video) came from Libby’s phone. I didn’t think there was any question about that. One of the few hard facts in the case.
The short video was released Apr 22 2019. Also from Libby’s phone.

 

[Optics]

The second sketch shows BG with a full head of hair. Whomever saw him that day and helped create that sketch saw him without a cap or hat and with a full head of hair. That's why I don't necessarily agree with the tv show about the possibility the different sketches were different impressions remembered by different witnesses.

The average age of perps for this type of crime is relatively young, most certainly under the age of 40. I takes someone with strength, endurance and quick reflexes to kidnap, control, assault and murder two adolescent girls while navigating rough terrain, running up and down hills, across a wide creek, climbing up a creek bank, etc.

I agree, however many males are now balded into their 30s too. On the 2nd sketch, I have not seen anything to indicate the person saw him without a hat. Having said that......here's something I find curious too: The LE have really kept a tight lid on the witnesses who've claimed to have seen him on the trail that day. I think if the family knows who the witnesses are they are also keeping extremely quiet on that aspect. Not sure if its to deeply protect those identities from the killer or what. Normally you would see the 'witnesses' appearing on various news reports.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, however many males are now balded into their 30s too. On the 2nd sketch, I have not seen anything to indicate the person saw him without a hat. Having said that......here's something I find curious too: The LE have really kept a tight lid on the witnesses who've claimed to have seen him on the trail that day. I think if the family knows who the witnesses are they are also keeping extremely quiet on that aspect. Not sure if its to deeply protect those identities from the killer or what. Normally you would see the 'witnesses' appearing on various news reports.

How I see it, as nobody witnessed the murders occurring, no witnesses could’ve known for sure they spotted the killer. Based on whatever they told LE, it was LE who determined it was a legitimate sighting.

A whole lot of weight has been placed on the accuracy of the sketches (too much IMO). Imagine if a witness had went public and eventually there is an arrest but the sketch the witness assisted in creating looked nothing like him other than he was caucasian with two eyes, a nose and mouth - imagine the public rage that would be directed toward this person for leading the public astray and impeding an arrest from occurring sooner. All those FB members searching, searching for look-alike images, what a waste.

If I were a possible witness involved in circumstances such as that, no way would I want my name out there especially prior to an arrest. I probably wouldn’t be able to sleep at night still wondering if the sketch resembles the person I saw, even in the slightest.

 

[mom2chloe]

Lots of great posts recently! I love it!

I have previously stated that I think if a prosecuting attorney would give the press conferences we may have a clearer picture. No offense to LE but a lawyer talking at least in this instance lol would be more clear and concise to the rest of us who are consistently left wondering wtf! The more we research and reiterate the more befuddled this becomes. Anything less cryptic would be helpful and this is part of what doesn’t make sense to me. IMO

 

[Betty P]

How I see it, as nobody witnessed the murders occurring, no witnesses could’ve known for sure they spotted the killer. Based on whatever they told LE, it was LE who determined it was a legitimate sighting.

A whole lot of weight has been placed on the accuracy of the sketches (too much IMO). Imagine if a witness had went public and eventually there is an arrest but the sketch the witness assisted in creating looked nothing like him other than he was caucasian with two eyes, a nose and mouth - imagine the public rage that would be directed toward this person for leading the public astray and impeding an arrest from occurring. All those FB members searching, searching for look-alike images, what a waste.

If I were a possible witness involved in circumstances such as that, no way would I want my name out there especially prior to an arrest. I probably wouldn’t be able to sleep at night still wondering if the sketch resembles the person I saw, even in the slightest.

Agree, not revealing names of witnesses to the perp hanging out or leaving the area hints that LE think the killer is local or regional and thus a possible threat to them.

Re witness reports, JMO, LE arrived at thoze through a process of elimination. They took all reports of men witnesses reported seeing there that day, then eliminated the men they identified and questioned who were at the trail that day for legit reasons. The ones left over who no one could account for and who met the criteria were the perp. IIRC they did the same with vehicles there that day.