Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[sandy_80]

I also believe it’s possible and maybe even likely that LE were misled on the BG video and the sketches. What if a witness is the perp and knowingly mislead LE and that is why OP often feel the press conferences are awkward and angry much? Idk but I have bad feelings about this case and more so the longer time goes. Imo there was a screw up somewhere. Maybe DNA and or fingerprints and other evidence was lost or compromised. I only know if I were a family member I would be screaming for more. I would bring in the big dogs if you will or whatever. Something is amiss IMO

what if all witnesses were women ?

 

[Yemelyan]

Sorry what I mean is the police won't charge someone or put them before a court without LE knowing they have enough evidence to convince a jury he's guilty B.R.D

They get 1 chance, they won't risk anything. MOO is that when BG ends up in court they'll have a bullet-proof case against him which can only result in a guilty verdict...

I think mostly everyone here is aware of that.

What my post was saying is that even if LE does not have enough to make a "bullet-proof" case against a suspect at one particular point in time, there are still things they can continue to do to try to build their case. Namely, LE keep bringing the person in to talk, if they can. Because the more someone talks to police, the more likely they are to give away that one little piece of information that points to their involvement. If LE has held a lot of information back, the quicker that could happen. Many suspects in murder cases languish in jail for awhile on other charges, during this process that puts pressure on them.

So what I was trying to say in my post is that IMO when an investigation hits an apparent roadblock against any particular person it doesn't just come to a screeching stop if there are other things about that person that ticks the boxes. Sometimes people say "but maybe he has an alibi" as if prosecutors don't charge people with alibis all the time. They do. They don't rush. They take their time (sometimes years). They gather evidence and at trial, they try to prove that the alibi is unreliable.

 

[Shamrock1]

I've heard Libby was into true crime...so she knew it's better to run from a weapon in a public space than to get in a car and be taken somewhere.

Why would they go down the hill before trying to run? Unless the weapon was right up against one of their heads/backs where it was very unlikely to miss.

What we know to do and what we actually do are two very different things. JMO.

 

[Shamrock1]

I've heard Libby was into true crime...so she knew it's better to run from a weapon in a public space than to get in a car and be taken somewhere.

Why would they go down the hill before trying to run? Unless the weapon was right up against one of their heads/backs where it was very unlikely to miss.

What we know to do and what we actually do are two very different things. JMO.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Yes, it was stated as you say in the HLN special. It was also stated by Libby's grandmother in an interview a couple of years ago.

I find that a bit unusual that they can't determine if the DNA belongs to the killer. There are standard procedures for ruling out DNA on victims from people working on the investigation, family, etc. So it seems a bit unusual they can't do that in this case. I've never heard that before. I cant imagine the girls were around that many people that day.

Touch DNA can come from a lot of places including people you brush up against in a grocery store, you hung your coat next to theirs at church, your math teacher who put their hand on your shoulder as you walked out of class, etc. Everybody you come into contact with everyday. I believe they only have touch DNA and that is why they don’t know if it was the killer’s.
DNA found under the victims fingernails, in intimate places(sorry), bodily fluids on the victims like saliva etc....you would figure that is from the killer. I don’t think LE has that in this case.
Just my thoughts.

 

[K9Enzo]

Has LE ever confirmed if the girls were in fact sexually assaulted?

 

[Yemelyan]

Has LE ever confirmed if the girls were in fact sexually assaulted?

No.

But I would point out that whether or not what happened to them met the legal criteria to be called "sexual assault" (which we may never know), that says nothing about whether or not the crime was sexually motivated as there could be a variety of paraphilias and other things going on.

 

[Rural_PC]

No.

But I would point out that whether or not what happened to them met the legal criteria to be called "sexual assault" (which we may never know), that says nothing about whether or not the crime was sexually motivated as there could be a variety of paraphilias and other things going on.

Well said. I would add also that he may have been interrupted and forced to abandoned his original plan.

 

[MistyWaters]

By now they should know whose DNA it is.

Not necessarily. If the perp wore gloves and left no blood or other bodily fluid at the scene then investigators are left with discarded objects that could’ve been dropped days, months or years ago.

But surely most modern day criminals take steps to avoid identifying themselves through obvious DNA sources as the technology is well known and has been around for more than 20 years.

The girls’s clothing, if not thrown in the creek, would pick up DNA from a multitude of sources. But it would be impossible to match partial or transfer DNA to known people because it wouldn’t specifically identify only one person.

“Partial profiles will match up with many more people than a full profile. And even full profiles may match with a person other than the culprit. Further complicating matters, a single DNA profile might be mistakenly generated when samples from multiple people are accidentally combined. It’s a messy world....”
How Forensic DNA Evidence Can Lead to Wrongful Convictions | JSTOR Daily

 

[flashy09]

Aw god, I'd always wondered why the picture quality was so blurry / bad - now I know. What a shame it just couldn't have been held still, even if they'd made out it was just for a quick photo (but got him in the shot etc).
Thinking on though if they had, he may have seen and would have grabbed the phone and took it with him.

I think she was right not to make her phone obvious by taking a still picture or video that could be deleted, but I always wonder the outcome if she had pretended to be Facetiming....or actually Facetimed somebody for real... showing them the "view" and making it obvious to BG that he is on camera. It's something I think I will do if I feel I am in a sketchy situation as I think it would be a good deterrent.

 

[Ekliptika]

Here's something we haven't really talked about yet....

What will BG's defence be in court? The guy is clearly a narcissist so will plead not guilty IMO. For me he will say MOO:

'I am not guilty. Yes, I am the man on that video but I did not murder those two girls. The reason I did not come forward is because, immediately after photos of me surfaced via Libby's phone, the media, LE and entire state had already decided I was guilty. This is not how it is supposed to work. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?? I felt like I was already guilty in the eyes of LE, the public and media so I wanted to remain anonymous as I felt like my guilt was already pre-determined after LE released the photos and then video. There were plenty of people on the trail that day, including the man who represents the young-looking (I think BG, when found will be about 40-55 y/old and not look like 2019 suspect) sketch. As stated by LE, the face of the man revealed in their 2019 sketch is responsible for this crime and not me'.

All MOO.

Interesting thought experiment that I would love to engage in (have several ideas). Although I am generally not one of those who believes that the killer reads in here, I can’t help the thought that we should not discuss this openly, as we might give the killer good ideas for his defence that he might not be smart enough to come up with on his own. There is a lot of smart people in here, who all wants the killer get convicted, not help him to come up with stories that can contribute to “reasonable doubt”.

 

[minazoe]

okay, I'll take a walk with you and think about how BG might actually be known to the police.

Could be a good witness identified him, knew him, swore she thought it was one of the ( insert name) brothers. But she just cant swear to it because she just got a quick glimpse and she barely took time to register it.

Could be this individual was also part of the search.

he has been questioned more than once.

they don't have cause to put him in a line up and the witness is afraid he will remember seeing her at the park and
come looking for her.

ooooh if this is true, they are watching him every day, perhaps the word that they have no idea is a big fat lie and
and they are waiting for him.

added: maybe this is why he's not a danger because he has someone on him at all times. ( is it possible?). I don't know..

mOO

 

[minazoe]

I am always reminded of Green River Gary...he really was in plain sight and was pulled over and questioned etc..if I remember correctly.. I mean he was just right there...driving around..picking up hookers...hanging out..killing them at his house etc...he just set up shop.

mOO

 

[St. Anthony2017]

okay, I'll take a walk with you and think about how BG might actually be known to the police.

Could be a good witness identified him, knew him, swore she thought it was one of the ( insert name) brothers. But she just cant swear to it because she just got a quick glimpse and she barely took time to register it.

Could be this individual was also part of the search.

he has been questioned more than once.

they don't have cause to put him in a line up and the witness is afraid he will remember seeing her at the park and
come looking for her.

ooooh if this is true, they are watching him every day, perhaps the word that they have no idea is a big fat lie and
and they are waiting for him.

added: maybe this is why he's not a danger because he has someone on him at all times. ( is it possible?). I don't know..

mOO

I sure hope so. Even if he is now out of state he could be under surveillance.

 

[Irishdetective]

Welcome Irish Detective!

Thanks a million. Hope your doing good.

 

[Justice101]

Hi 1st post on Delphi. Just a bit about myself. I’m LE my rank is detective with training in profiling and crime scene technician.

I live in Dublin Ireland and have followed this case since day one.

My breakdown of day, scene and who they are looking for. Kids were off school getting dropped to the trail. Bridge guy knew this, and with the weather been fine he was assured kids would be there hanging out.

He in-counters poor Abby And Libby and from that, moment they were dead they had no chance unless someone intervened.

They may know him but with the multiple layers he was unrecognisable to them in a state of panic.

He forced them down the hill and I would be pretty certain he had a gun to control them, if they split and go for it he has a problem, if they scream he has a problem only thing that makes you afraid is a gun because other than that you know one of you has a good shot of going to get help.
He gets them down to near the stream and this is when they take their chance and go for it across the shallow area.

They lose trainers but he catches one across the stream, most likely Libby. Abby is the type of personality who followed true crime intensely and knew if she did not go back she would never see her pal again. She died a Superhero trying to protect her friend.
Will go into deaths and signatures in another post.

Key Key Points.

suspect either currently lives in Delphi or within a 30miles radius.
He knows the police know it’s him but he is being super care every step he takes ( disposing of dna in public places or garbage. )
He was in the room during press conference, that’s why the chief was furious, he was sitting there smirking knowing they could do nothing.
Last but not least FIND THE DRIVER OF THE CAR AT THE CPS BUILDING THAT WAS ABANDONED AND YOU FIND YOUR KILLER,

I personally believe he did not want to kill them there, I believe he wanted to abduct them to his safe place via car.
Your looking for the guy that blends in, probably very active in community till this happened.

He knows police know it’s him they just need that tiny piece of information to nail him. He will be following this day and night. His partner or people who share a home with him will have noticed the change in him but put it down to something else.
Clothes worn by BG will have been immediately destroyed as they link him to this tragic event.

He will be caught he will drop that guard or good guy family persona eventually and the whole lot will come crashing down.

Next post I will discuss the signature he left and some more intimate details of crime seen. His past crimes and is he. Serial killer.

Any Questions welcome.

Welcome! Love, love Ireland by the way. My daughter studied a semester at NUI - Galway.

Them running to the other side of the creek to get away and possibly getting caught up to: Why would her shoe (allegedly) have been left up on the flat ground on the south shore in that scenario?

In your scenario, intent to abduct: I think he would have had to have a partner. This is because it would be virtually impossible for him to get the girls to where the car was seen all that distance without them all being seen. That is a long way to abduct to by yourself...need a getaway driver at the least. I wonder if he meant to defile them on the south shore and then they made a break it across the creek and he ended up catching one of them.. which made the other stop to help.

I personally think the purpose of the "he might even be in this room" comment was just meant for people to trust nobody and assume anyone, even LE, is the guy who did this.

Just my 2 cents worth.. and welcome again!

 

[Irishdetective]

On the DNA subject and I do believe they have DNA. He did not sexually assault the girls as far as I’m aware.

So assuming it’s touch DNA which I believe it is the police have to thread very carefully here. If he knew girls and had access to them he can explain the DNA away very easily.

I’ve watched every press conference from start to finish multiple times. And from my experience working in LE as a detective I understand the words he is using.

Why mention the movie The Shack......there is a couple of reasons but the main reason I would take away from it is, either they are watching BG and witnessed him purchasing it, or when doing door to door enquiries it was on the Tv, this tells BG we are speaking to you.
If they show their hand with the DNA and that’s all they have and he explains it away easily, LE will be in a world of trouble.

The car is huge for me as by now if there was an innocent reason for that car been there the owner would have come forward.

I am under no illusion they know who BG is and they are watching him like a hawk waiting for that 1 mistake, and guys with egos like this always make mistakes eventually.

I do believe his partner/family suspect something and they should come forward but loyalty/fear will not allow them to.
The car is that important to the investigation that they have never given colour make or model despite having it on cctv and witnesses putting it there. Why hold back this you ask, I will tell you why if they reveal it everyone in small towns know what everybody else drives and it will identify the person to the town of Delphi.

You also have to consider there may be a father in his 50s involved or a son in his 20s or 30s involved. They both live in the same house have access to the same car and both share similar DNA that is not in the system.

Both are suspects but only 1 is the killer and he is keeping the dirty secret to himself.

Identify the driver of the car that particular day and you have your killer.

Given everything you can understand why LE in Delphi are so cautious. They have 1 shot at this and have to get it right 1st time. There is no 2nd chances in this one.

 

[jonnyrock]

Nice synopsis IrishDetective. I, too, believe BG lives outside of Delphi and agree on the 30 mile radius. I also believe BG does have significant ties from the past to Delphi and likely may have grown up there. I see him at the time of the murder
living with and taking care of an aging parent (mother?). He may still be living in that capacity. Now we need that rural postal delivery person to phone in a tip based on one of the two sketches or the video.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I bet people in that town are suspecting every male they see.

I was impressed by the related quotes during the HLN special. Mike and Becky had no problem conceding that they stare people down. I experienced that immediately in Delphi within 2 minutes of arriving. I was pumping gas at the Shell station downtown when an older guy also pumping gas basically demanded to know what I was doing there. I walked main street where there are several small local restaurants. A group waiting for a table stopped their conversation cold and stared at me as I walked past. A woman at the Dairy Queen counter blatantly stared me down head to toe with a stern expression. Then at Trailhead Park an older couple obviously got scared of me and immediately drove away once they saw my Florida tag.

Good thing I was aware of the inevitability before arriving in Delphi. But I have to say it was beyond my anticipation. I thought my 6-3 height might provide some quick dismissive ability. Seemingly not in the slightest. I got the full treatment.

However, as I've mentioned here and elsewhere, the glaring exception was among young people. Teenagers didn't care at all. I was so impressed with that. They seemingly had such a tremendous grasp of probability, as opposed to overthinking anything and everything. That age group walked past me without second thought every single time.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

On the DNA subject and I do believe they have DNA. He did not sexually assault the girls as far as I’m aware.

So assuming it’s touch DNA which I believe it is the police have to thread very carefully here. If he knew girls and had access to them he can explain the DNA away very easily.

I’ve watched every press conference from start to finish multiple times. And from my experience working in LE as a detective I understand the words he is using.

Why mention the movie The Shack......there is a couple of reasons but the main reason I would take away from it is, either they are watching BG and witnessed him purchasing it, or when doing door to door enquiries it was on the Tv, this tells BG we are speaking to you.
If they show their hand with the DNA and that’s all they have and he explains it away easily, LE will be in a world of trouble.

The car is huge for me as by now if there was an innocent reason for that car been there the owner would have come forward.

I am under no illusion they know who BG is and they are watching him like a hawk waiting for that 1 mistake, and guys with egos like this always make mistakes eventually.

I do believe his partner/family suspect something and they should come forward but loyalty/fear will not allow them to.
The car is that important to the investigation that they have never given colour make or model despite having it on cctv and witnesses putting it there. Why hold back this you ask, I will tell you why if they reveal it everyone in small towns know what everybody else drives and it will identify the person to the town of Delphi.

You also have to consider there may be a father in his 50s involved or a son in his 20s or 30s involved. They both live in the same house have access to the same car and both share similar DNA that is not in the system.

Both are suspects but only 1 is the killer and he is keeping the dirty secret to himself.

Identify the driver of the car that particular day and you have your killer.

Given everything you can understand why LE in Delphi are so cautious. They have 1 shot at this and have to get it right 1st time. There is no 2nd chances in this one.

Welcome and thanks for your insight - it's very interesting.

For those who need a refresher on the car at the CPS Building.

• A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13, 2017
  • We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time
• The location of the abandoned CPS building was 6931 West 300 North, Delphi, IN
  • The building has since been demolished and the lot is vacant

Indiana State Police releases clarification points on Delphi murder suspect