Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[MistyWaters]

Who thinks LE know BG’s name and the fact he did it? They just don’t have that evidence to nail him...

I wouldn’t be too surprised if they know exactly who BG is and even have him under constant surveillance

moo

If they know who this person is they’d also have the ability to determine every person connected with him - relatives, friends, coworkers, associates. If nothing came from interviewing him directly then next they’d be interested in other people within his circle. If his circle is neither talking nor helpful to the investigation then who would they expect might provide them with information regarding the identity of the killer (which they already know)? Instead LE wastes time and energy asking for tips on somebody 18 to 40 years old who may look younger. That would make no sense to me. JMO

 

[somequestions]

How I see it, as nobody witnessed the murders occurring, no witnesses could’ve known for sure they spotted the killer. Based on whatever they told LE, it was LE who determined it was a legitimate sighting.

A whole lot of weight has been placed on the accuracy of the sketches (too much IMO). Imagine if a witness had went public and eventually there is an arrest but the sketch the witness assisted in creating looked nothing like him other than he was caucasian with two eyes, a nose and mouth - imagine the public rage that would be directed toward this person for leading the public astray and impeding an arrest from occurring sooner. All those FB members searching, searching for look-alike images, what a waste.

If I were a possible witness involved in circumstances such as that, no way would I want my name out there especially prior to an arrest. I probably wouldn’t be able to sleep at night still wondering if the sketch resembles the person I saw, even in the slightest.

Even if the real killer looks nothing like either of the sketches, I think the people that came forward to provide the information to create the sketches had good intentions. It is up to LE to decide what is the right information to release to the public. I thought I saw the man from Liberty German's phone video too, but nothing came of it.

I think many people think and truly believe they may have seen this man on the bridge. Whether it is a theory or a possible witness statement we want to believe we are helping. I think about the only thing people can do is sit back and try and look at the information they think they might have from an objective standpoint. But for as much as facts are important, the subjective aspect of how we view something such as a tip is just as important. It is up to a human being in LE to decide, yes, this is good information that we should release to the public.

 

[JnRyan]

I was looking up problems with feeling the cold on a person's hands or feet and MS actually came up. Then you have the theory that he did not move the bodies, but did move clothes to the creek and it kind of makes sense. But there could be numerous other reasons like the killer just did not care about the cold water in the creek or there was some type of sexual fantasy with the bodies.

I know the water would have been uncomfortable, but after duck hunting in weather colder than that with the sun going down and the temps dropping I know it is definitely doable. If he killed the girls quickly and then kept moving he would have fought off the cold. Till he got in his vehicle and sat down.

 

[mom2chloe]

Even if the real killer looks nothing like either of the sketches, I think the people that came forward to provide the information to create the sketches had good intentions. It is up to LE to decide what is the right information to release to the public. I thought I saw the man from Liberty German's phone video too, but nothing came of it.

I think many people think and truly believe they may have seen this man on the bridge. Whether it is a theory or a possible witness statement we want to believe we are helping. I think about the only thing people can do is sit back and try and look at the information they think they might have from an objective standpoint. But for as much as facts are important, the subjective aspect of how we view something such as a tip is just as important. It is up to a human being in LE to decide, yes, this is good information that we should release to the public.

I also believe it’s possible and maybe even likely that LE were misled on the BG video and the sketches. What if a witness is the perp and knowingly mislead LE and that is why OP often feel the press conferences are awkward and angry much? Idk but I have bad feelings about this case and more so the longer time goes. Imo there was a screw up somewhere. Maybe DNA and or fingerprints and other evidence was lost or compromised. I only know if I were a family member I would be screaming for more. I would bring in the big dogs if you will or whatever. Something is amiss IMO

 

[mom2chloe]

I know the water would have been uncomfortable, but after duck hunting in weather colder than that with the sun going down and the temps dropping I know it is definitely doable. If he killed the girls quickly and then kept moving he would have fought off the cold. Till he got in his vehicle and sat down.

Lots of teenage boys wear athletic shorts even in snow. Maybe BG or whoever is responsible had that on underneath? Wouldn’t seem odd to me to encounter a teenage male maybe even a female who sported shorts beneath their other pants. They are young and apparently don’t feel the cold in their bones and joins the way the rest of us over 50 peeps do. IMO
ETA especially given the weather and temps that day! I for one can’t wait for sandal weather. Ugh

 

[Betty P]

I also believe it’s possible and maybe even likely that LE were misled on the BG video and the sketches. What if a witness is the perp and knowingly mislead LE and that is why OP often feel the press conferences are awkward and angry much? Idk but I have bad feelings about this case and more so the longer time goes. Imo there was a screw up somewhere. Maybe DNA and or fingerprints and other evidence was lost or compromised. I only know if I were a family member I would be screaming for more. I would bring in the big dogs if you will or whatever. Something is amiss IMO

No, they've said they have DNA.

 

[Charlot123]

I was looking up problems with feeling the cold on a person's hands or feet and MS actually came up. Then you have the theory that he did not move the bodies, but did move clothes to the creek and it kind of makes sense. But there could be numerous other reasons like the killer just did not care about the cold water in the creek or there was some type of sexual fantasy with the bodies.

I was speaking about the partner of the perpetrator being ill, and depending on BG’s insurance. MS was a random choice - or rather, I know that there are perfect medications for autoimmune disorders available, but they are very expensive. So instead of MS, substitute for “a chronic illness requiring expensive medications”, and you will get my idea. Sorry for being unclear, I was thinking solely about the partner’s motives to keep silent.

 

[MistyWaters]

No, they've said they have DNA.

Maybe somebody might kindly confirm this but unless I’m dreaming it was posted here recently from either DTH or Q&A indeed they have DNA but they’re not certain it’s the perpetrator’s DNA.

 

[Boxer]

Maybe somebody might kindly confirm this but unless I’m dreaming it was posted here recently from either DTH or Q&A indeed they have DNA but they’re not certain it’s the perpetrator’s DNA.

By now they should know whose DNA it is.

 

[sunshineray]

If they know who this person is they’d also have the ability to determine every person connected with him - relatives, friends, coworkers, associates. If nothing came from interviewing him directly then next they’d be interested in other people within his circle. If his circle is neither talking nor helpful to the investigation then who would they expect might provide them with information regarding the identity of the killer (which they already know)? Instead LE wastes time and energy asking for tips on somebody 18 to 40 years old who may look younger. That would make no sense to me. JMO

Just devil's advocate to this...LE has said repeatedly that the person(s) in the know could be too frightening to tell what they know. Just another way LE could possibly "know" and not be getting cooperation. As far as the age span LE keeps mentioning, you're right, it doesn't jive...unless LE has multiple suspect list.

 

[sunshineray]

I also believe it’s possible and maybe even likely that LE were misled on the BG video and the sketches. What if a witness is the perp and knowingly mislead LE and that is why OP often feel the press conferences are awkward and angry much? Idk but I have bad feelings about this case and more so the longer time goes. Imo there was a screw up somewhere. Maybe DNA and or fingerprints and other evidence was lost or compromised. I only know if I were a family member I would be screaming for more. I would bring in the big dogs if you will or whatever. Something is amiss IMO

I've often wonder if the killer was also a searcher and compromised the scene so even if his shoe prints, hair, cigarette etc...type evidence was found there would be problems using it. The killer being a searcher probably discovered 2 years later (Carter change of strategy direction) would certainly be seen as a betrayal of sorts, especially if they hold a job of trust.

 

[news buff]

Hi 1st post on Delphi. Just a bit about myself. I’m LE my rank is detective with training in profiling and crime scene technician.

I live in Dublin Ireland and have followed this case since day one.

My breakdown of day, scene and who they are looking for. Kids were off school getting dropped to the trail. Bridge guy knew this, and with the weather been fine he was assured kids would be there hanging out.

He in-counters poor Abby And Libby and from that, moment they were dead they had no chance unless someone intervened.

They may know him but with the multiple layers he was unrecognisable to them in a state of panic.

He forced them down the hill and I would be pretty certain he had a gun to control them, if they split and go for it he has a problem, if they scream he has a problem only thing that makes you afraid is a gun because other than that you know one of you has a good shot of going to get help.
He gets them down to near the stream and this is when they take their chance and go for it across the shallow area.

They lose trainers but he catches one across the stream, most likely Libby. Abby is the type of personality who followed true crime intensely and knew if she did not go back she would never see her pal again. She died a Superhero trying to protect her friend.
Will go into deaths and signatures in another post.

Key Key Points.

suspect either currently lives in Delphi or within a 30miles radius.
He knows the police know it’s him but he is being super care every step he takes ( disposing of dna in public places or garbage. )
He was in the room during press conference, that’s why the chief was furious, he was sitting there smirking knowing they could do nothing.
Last but not least FIND THE DRIVER OF THE CAR AT THE CPS BUILDING THAT WAS ABANDONED AND YOU FIND YOUR KILLER,

I personally believe he did not want to kill them there, I believe he wanted to abduct them to his safe place via car.
Your looking for the guy that blends in, probably very active in community till this happened.

He knows police know it’s him they just need that tiny piece of information to nail him. He will be following this day and night. His partner or people who share a home with him will have noticed the change in him but put it down to something else.
Clothes worn by BG will have been immediately destroyed as they link him to this tragic event.

He will be caught he will drop that guard or good guy family persona eventually and the whole lot will come crashing down.

Next post I will discuss the signature he left and some more intimate details of crime seen. His past crimes and is he. Serial killer.

Any Questions welcome.

Maybe someone who works with the youth as a coach or mentor?

 

[Betty P]

Maybe somebody might kindly confirm this but unless I’m dreaming it was posted here recently from either DTH or Q&A indeed they have DNA but they’re not certain it’s the perpetrator’s DNA.

Yes, it was stated as you say in the HLN special. It was also stated by Libby's grandmother in an interview a couple of years ago.

I find that a bit unusual that they can't determine if the DNA belongs to the killer. There are standard procedures for ruling out DNA on victims from people working on the investigation, family, etc. So it seems a bit unusual they can't do that in this case. I've never heard that before. I cant imagine the girls were around that many people that day.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, it was stated as you say in the HLN special. It was also stated by Libby's grandmother in an interview a couple of years ago.

I find that a bit unusual that they can't determine if the DNA belongs to the killer. There are standard procedures for ruling out DNA on victims from people working on the investigation, family, etc. So it seems a bit unusual they can't do that in this case. I've never heard that before. I cant imagine the girls were around that many people that day.

The girl's crime scene area, the approaches and exits too, were open to a multitude of people and their DNA (and technically each seacher's family/friends DNA).

 

[ShamelessObserver]

You don't need beyond reasonable doubt to ask someone to come in for questioning or find some other pretext under which to arrest them so you can interrogate them further. If LE really had someone in mind for this, I would think they would make that person's life very difficult. There might be a person out there who has been brought in a couple of times under different scenarios so detectives can take a crack at seeing what he might say about February 13th, 2017.

Two different members of the investigative team have said that they have, at one time or another, had a list in mind of either 2 dozen to 2 or 3 individuals who checked some of the boxes. But no one so far has been more likely than not, in their opinion, to be "the one" or check all of the boxes. I don't think they are mis-representing this because it's not exactly a great thing to put out there. A future defense attorney can definitely go back to these statements and say "but you had 2 or 3 people who you thought might have done it, how much did you investigate them? I can show that you didn't." LE could easily say nothing but they've chosen to reveal how much they don't know. My opinion is that they don't yet have a specific suspect in mind.

Sorry what I mean is the police won't charge someone or put them before a court without LE knowing they have enough evidence to convince a jury he's guilty B.R.D

They get 1 chance, they won't risk anything. MOO is that when BG ends up in court they'll have a bullet-proof case against him which can only result in a guilty verdict...

 

[ShamelessObserver]

Here's something we haven't really talked about yet....

What will BG's defence be in court? The guy is clearly a narcissist so will plead not guilty IMO. For me he will say MOO:

'I am not guilty. Yes, I am the man on that video but I did not murder those two girls. The reason I did not come forward is because, immediately after photos of me surfaced via Libby's phone, the media, LE and entire state had already decided I was guilty. This is not how it is supposed to work. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?? I felt like I was already guilty in the eyes of LE, the public and media so I wanted to remain anonymous as I felt like my guilt was already pre-determined after LE released the photos and then video. There were plenty of people on the trail that day, including the man who represents the young-looking (I think BG, when found will be about 40-55 y/old and not look like 2019 suspect) sketch. As stated by LE, the face of the man revealed in their 2019 sketch is responsible for this crime and not me'.

All MOO.

 

[Betty P]

The girl's crime scene area, the approaches and exits too, were open to a multitude of people and their DNA (and technically each seacher's family/friends DNA).

Yes,of course, that often happens with crime scenes. Investgators have ways of gathering DNA from people who were at the crime scene or with the victims and ruling them out. In that process, it eliminates all DNA or fingerprints or shoe prints except that belonging to the killer. We can probably assume LE has already gone through that process.

 

[Skully]

Maybe somebody might kindly confirm this but unless I’m dreaming it was posted here recently from either DTH or Q&A indeed they have DNA but they’re not certain it’s the perpetrator’s DNA.

So that tells me that either he is not in the system CODIS, or it is not a full profile. So either of those two things, will keep you from know the ID . Thank you I forgot about that statement.

 

[Charlot123]

Hi 1st post on Delphi. Just a bit about myself. I’m LE my rank is detective with training in profiling and crime scene technician.

I live in Dublin Ireland and have followed this case since day one.

My breakdown of day, scene and who they are looking for. Kids were off school getting dropped to the trail. Bridge guy knew this, and with the weather been fine he was assured kids would be there hanging out.

He in-counters poor Abby And Libby and from that, moment they were dead they had no chance unless someone intervened.

They may know him but with the multiple layers he was unrecognisable to them in a state of panic.

He forced them down the hill and I would be pretty certain he had a gun to control them, if they split and go for it he has a problem, if they scream he has a problem only thing that makes you afraid is a gun because other than that you know one of you has a good shot of going to get help.
He gets them down to near the stream and this is when they take their chance and go for it across the shallow area.

They lose trainers but he catches one across the stream, most likely Libby. Abby is the type of personality who followed true crime intensely and knew if she did not go back she would never see her pal again. She died a Superhero trying to protect her friend.
Will go into deaths and signatures in another post.

Key Key Points.

suspect either currently lives in Delphi or within a 30miles radius.
He knows the police know it’s him but he is being super care every step he takes ( disposing of dna in public places or garbage. )
He was in the room during press conference, that’s why the chief was furious, he was sitting there smirking knowing they could do nothing.
Last but not least FIND THE DRIVER OF THE CAR AT THE CPS BUILDING THAT WAS ABANDONED AND YOU FIND YOUR KILLER,

I personally believe he did not want to kill them there, I believe he wanted to abduct them to his safe place via car.
Your looking for the guy that blends in, probably very active in community till this happened.

He knows police know it’s him they just need that tiny piece of information to nail him. He will be following this day and night. His partner or people who share a home with him will have noticed the change in him but put it down to something else.
Clothes worn by BG will have been immediately destroyed as they link him to this tragic event.

He will be caught he will drop that guard or good guy family persona eventually and the whole lot will come crashing down.

Next post I will discuss the signature he left and some more intimate details of crime seen. His past crimes and is he. Serial killer.

Any Questions welcome.

Question: he probably carries gun with him. Do you think he will allow himself to be caught?

 

[Laura456]

I've heard Libby was into true crime...so she knew it's better to run from a weapon in a public space than to get in a car and be taken somewhere.

Why would they go down the hill before trying to run? Unless the weapon was right up against one of their heads/backs where it was very unlikely to miss.