Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #131

[Marzipan]

Have a look at BG again. Look closely at the blue jacket. It APPEARS to have a strap that fastens OVER the zipper. Not a flap. A strap. Look closely at the area I circled in red. If this has been brought up elsewhere before, someone let me know - I've not seen it discussed anywhere yet is all.

I'm sure LE have done this, or are working on it, but I mean, that's a pretty identifiable detail, if its there, and assuming I'm not making visuals up! Someone has to know someone who's got this jacket, had this jacket... no longer wears this thing!?

PLS NOTE: I used GIMP (free software similar to photoshop) to create the circle. I zoomed way in to around 300% on my screen but no other alterations were made. Source for the photo: Indiana State Police name man in photograph suspect in slayings of Delphi teens

Good eye. I’d noticed the spot but had thought it was a snap-up jacket and that was a snap. It’s very much like my dad’s Footjoy golf jacket. I even went looking through Delphi golf photos for it. If it’s a button, as Diddian suggests, that might be pretty unusual too. Keep looking — you are finding lots of interesting fresh things to note.

 

[raja]

It IS hard to tell and after I first started thinking he was wearing the jacket inside out while on the bridge, I asked myself, "then, wouldn't the pockets be on the outside too, and shouldn't those be noticeable?" And I just cannot tell from that image.

If he WAS wearing the jacket inside out before the abduction and murders, he may have turned it right side out for his departure from the scene, assuming he was worried about being seen if his path took him near others.

I asked myself, "then, wouldn't the pockets be on the outside too, and shouldn't those be noticeable?" And I just cannot tell from that image.
The pockets could be turned inside out thus being on the inside of the inside out jacket.

 

[minazoe]

maybe the jacket is inside out because it says something. mOO

 

[Ozoner]

Have a look at BG again. Look closely at the blue jacket. It APPEARS to have a strap that fastens OVER the zipper. Not a flap. A strap. Look closely at the area I circled in red. If this has been brought up elsewhere before, someone let me know - I've not seen it discussed anywhere yet is all.

I'm sure LE have done this, or are working on it, but I mean, that's a pretty identifiable detail, if its there, and assuming I'm not making visuals up! Someone has to know someone who's got this jacket, had this jacket... no longer wears this thing!?

PLS NOTE: I used GIMP (free software similar to photoshop) to create the circle. I zoomed way in to around 300% on my screen but no other alterations were made. Source for the photo: Indiana State Police name man in photograph suspect in slayings of Delphi teens

All I can say about the jacket is that it looks very oversized for BG's frame. It actually reminds me of the jacket portion of one of those those semi-disposable PVC or nylon rain suits that you can buy for about $10 at Walmart.

 

[stattlich1]

There is so much distortion, and so many variations, of the photograph of this guy that IMO it is difficult to say with any certainty a whole lot beyond that he has on jeans, and a blue jacket.

I'm not trying to resurrect hat/hair/firearm/plastic bag/leather tool bag/rod down the leg, ad infinitum, discussion, as it has beaten about quite intensely over the years.

My intent is to show that what one sees in the photo on the left, pertaining to the aforementioned area, is not the same as what is seen in the photo on the right, in that same area of the jacket.

Lighting, shadow, and a whole host of artifacts and other distortions arise when zooming in.

I myself have asked for divine intervention in catching this killer. I pray the unquestionable evidence comes to light soon.

 

[Spartygirl]

The Delphi fire chief in episode 2 of the podcast Down the Hill said that 300 people signed in with the fire department staging area to help search (so their identities were known) but another 200 people (in his estimate) just showed up at one of many locations to help out and there is no record of exactly who they were.

Remember that people weren't just searching on RL's property or the bridge/trails area, they were also looking in nearby farm fields and along roads leading back toward Delphi.

And that was only for FEB 14th.
They do not have records, IIRC for FEb 13th as people and friends and family just showed up to help search when girls did not show up at pick up spot

 

[Yemelyan]

he could of been one of them imo

Let's say for the sake of discussion that he was one of the searchers. Unless he was one of the searchers in the group that actually came upon the crime scene itself (which apparently is a very small number of civilians), how is he able to "contaminate" the scene with his DNA? We know that some of the searchers apparently smoked; we know that some of them urinated in the woods. I'm sure some may have thrown plastic bottles away while searching, etc. Unless they were doing this within feet or inches of the girls' bodies, how does that contaminate the place where the victims' bodies were? I really don't think LE are hinging their whole case on DNA from a plastic water bottle thrown under the bridge, for example, when the place where the girls were actually killed is at least 1/4 of a mile away?

And if by chance he did manage to insert himself into the group that actually came upon the place where they were killed, then he is going to be one of the people extensively interviewed by police as part of the crime scene analysis. How can he know, as the killer, where exactly his DNA or hair may have ended up during the commission of the crime? How is he going to explain his DNA on a sweater, or body part, or his DNA under fingernails if he's merely an observer at the scene? Other searchers were there to see how he acted and what he did. They can testify "he never touched their hands" if that's what he tries to claim he did in order to explain it.

I just don't see how "searchers contaminated the scene" explains the failure to arrest someone so far.

 

[Spartygirl]

Let's say for the sake of discussion that he was one of the searchers. Unless he was one of the searchers in the group that actually came upon the crime scene itself (which apparently is a very small number of civilians), how is he able to "contaminate" the scene with his DNA? We know that some of the searchers apparently smoked; we know that some of them urinated in the woods. I'm sure some may have thrown plastic bottles away while searching, etc. Unless they were doing this within feet or inches of the girls' bodies, how does that contaminate the place where the victims' bodies were? I really don't think LE are hinging their whole case on DNA from a plastic water bottle thrown under the bridge, for example, when the place where the girls were actually killed is at least 1/4 of a mile away?

And if by chance he did manage to insert himself into the group that actually came upon the place where they were killed, then he is going to be one of the people extensively interviewed by police as part of the crime scene analysis. How can he know, as the killer, where exactly his DNA or hair may have ended up during the commission of the crime? How is he going to explain his DNA on a sweater, or body part, or his DNA under fingernails if he's merely an observer at the scene? Other searchers were there to see how he acted and what he did. They can testify "he never touched their hands" if that's what he tries to claim he did in order to explain it.

I just don't see how "searchers contaminated the scene" explains the failure to arrest someone so far.

BBM- WE do??? do we know this for fact ??? I have never seen this mentioned before so just curious.

 

[TedMac]

BBM- WE do??? do we know this for fact ??? I have never seen this mentioned before so just curious.

Yes, we do. It was mentioned by LE in one of the interviews.

 

[JenniD]

I think it is difficult to discern details in this photograph because it has been enlarged from such a tiny image, so there are lines and blurs present as a result of that enlargement process with few pixels to provide detail.

However, to me it appears that BG may have the jacket on inside out. I notice that the yoke of the jacket (area from upper chest to shoulders and from opening to armpits) appears to be either quilted or at least a different fabric than the body of the jacket, and the sleeves also appear darker and to reflect light different than the rest of the jacket, as though they too are a different fabric. That would likely be because they are intended to be the interior, rather than the exterior of the jacket. And, I think what you see as a "strap" is actually the fabric straining at the location where the button of the jacket is pulled through the buttonhole to the other side. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think it's difficult to be sure.

I have stated the same thing many times. I think the jacket is inside out. I agree about the shoulder area and sleeves. I think if worn correctly the closure would be on opposite side for a mans jacket.

 

[Yemelyan]

BBM- WE do??? do we know this for fact ??? I have never seen this mentioned before so just curious.

Sgt. Riley talks about this in Episode 2 of Down the Hill; also is mentioned by the reporters who made that podcast on the HLN extra about the show.

Edited to add: This is what KR says in episode 2 of DTH about the crime scene:

The crime scene originally started where they found the bodies. Then after we found the phone, we realized it started at the bridge so we had to back up and bring that bridge into the crime scene. The original crime scene as a third of an acre. Including the bridge where the video was was taken - you got to remember, you had 400 to 500 people who started looking for these girls the night before, so you, you know, we had to deal with that - there were a lot of tracks, cigarette butts, you had spit, people would urinate...we had to deal with all that. All the leaves were on the ground. We basically had to turn every one of em over - that’s why it took so long.

 

[PaulaDC]

I don't think it is a jacket at all. I think it is blue pull-over windbreaker type thing. Possibly inside out, but not likely.

If the perp reads this site, he is prolly laughing his behind off.

But, everybody just carry on, over and over and over.......

Somebody needs to be brought into the station and shaken down. That is the only way this is going to move forward at this point. I chuckle when folks, rightly, point out that this might put a conviction at risk. Who cares? Get him in the public eye without further delay.

It looks exactly like a light weight tactical jacket in my opinion.

 

[Diddian]

I have stated the same thing many times. I think the jacket is inside out. I agree about the shoulder area and sleeves. I think if worn correctly the closure would be on opposite side for a mans jacket.

It occurs to me that it would be important to know whether LG recorded the video in "selfie" mode (when the camera takes a "mirror image") as well as whether LG had adjusted her phone settings to correct for that. If taken in "selfie" mode and not adjusted to flip the image, the jacket would appear to fasten on the opposite side from that on which it actually does fasten.

The same consideration applies when looking at BG's gait, posture, mannerisms as he walks - we may actually be looking at a "mirror image."

That would seem like something LE might be able to disclose without revealing anything that might compromise an investigation and that might actually assist someone considering submitting a tip about someone they know or are aware of - when we look at the still photos and video of BG, are we looking at a true image or a mirror image?

If this issue has already been addressed, my apologies.

 

[PaulaDC]

I have stated the same thing many times. I think the jacket is inside out. I agree about the shoulder area and sleeves. I think if worn correctly the closure would be on opposite side for a mans jacket.

Are you taking into consideration the way the photo may be reversed due to the filming?

 

[MistyWaters]

It occurs to me that it would be important to know whether LG recorded the video in "selfie" mode (when the camera takes a "mirror image") as well as whether LG had adjusted her phone settings to correct for that. If taken in "selfie" mode and not adjusted to flip the image, the jacket would appear to fasten on the opposite side from that on which it actually does fasten.

The same consideration applies when looking at BG's gait, posture, mannerisms as he walks - we may actually be looking at a "mirror image."

That would seem like something LE might be able to disclose without revealing anything that might compromise an investigation and that might actually assist someone considering submitting a tip about someone they know or are aware of - when we look at the still photos and video of BG, are we looking at a true image or a mirror image?

If this issue has already been addressed, my apologies.

GH was able to overlay the photo to spot on the bridge with the forked tree and the platform in the background, even matching up the worn rail ties using the video recorded by Julie M, so I don’t think the photo LE released is flipped.

 

[sunshineray]

I think many of those sources are assuming the location based on the same RL interview that we all are. The images of that taped-off area in the woods next to the creek were powerful.

There's also this:
https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/map-where-the-two-bodies-were-found-near-delphi-indiana
Kim Riley of the Indiana State Police said the bodies were found about a mile east of the Freedom Bridge...

That distance is consistent with the "approximately one-half mile upstream from the bridge (MHB)" ISP statement. I can't seem to attach a map with the distance shown at the moment, but anyone can do it on google maps. And it doesn't work with the location south of the cemetery.

I would like a link to LE stating the girls were found 1/4 mile (or less) from the bridge and I will let this rest.

It's just a detail, anyway. But I might change my thinking if he took them even deeper from view. JMO

In that recent HLN show about the Delphi murders, the reporter gets permission from RL to go on his property where the girls were found. She's standing right in the crime scene area talking and pointing to where the creek and bridge are and saying because of the lay of the land the area is sheltered from view.

Posters here who have seen it have also talked about how the crime scene is almost like being in a bowl, making detection from the surrounding land difficult.

 

[Jerrod]

When we look at the still photos and video of BG, are we looking at a true image or a mirror image?

Are you taking into consideration the way the photo may be reversed due to the filming?

The bridge runs from NW to SE. The quickest and easiest way to tell that it's not a mirror image is by rotating the map to Libby's perspective and comparing the angle of the afternoon shadows as they fall across both the bridge and the image of BG.

 

[Blanche]

Let's say for the sake of discussion that he was one of the searchers. Unless he was one of the searchers in the group that actually came upon the crime scene itself (which apparently is a very small number of civilians), how is he able to "contaminate" the scene with his DNA? We know that some of the searchers apparently smoked; we know that some of them urinated in the woods. I'm sure some may have thrown plastic bottles away while searching, etc. Unless they were doing this within feet or inches of the girls' bodies, how does that contaminate the place where the victims' bodies were? I really don't think LE are hinging their whole case on DNA from a plastic water bottle thrown under the bridge, for example, when the place where the girls were actually killed is at least 1/4 of a mile away?

And if by chance he did manage to insert himself into the group that actually came upon the place where they were killed, then he is going to be one of the people extensively interviewed by police as part of the crime scene analysis. How can he know, as the killer, where exactly his DNA or hair may have ended up during the commission of the crime? How is he going to explain his DNA on a sweater, or body part, or his DNA under fingernails if he's merely an observer at the scene? Other searchers were there to see how he acted and what he did. They can testify "he never touched their hands" if that's what he tries to claim he did in order to explain it.

I just don't see how "searchers contaminated the scene" explains the failure to arrest someone so far.

where is the discussion of him contaminating DNA? I didn't raise that just my thought that this killer would have kept close to the investigation and would have been part of the searchers, It just really reminds me of Ian Huntley case where he joined in the search and was interviewed on TV about the girls disappearance, two girls taken and killed in broad day light like here BBC NEWS | UK | Huntley guilty of Soham murders

I think this crime scene is a very complicated one, but will there have been less DNA on the private property land than in the public , presumably? then its the people who went on his land and searched , they could be identified and DNA taken IMO but it didnt happen as far as I know. but anyway i didnt raise DNA at the scene I raised the prospect of a voluntary collection of males DNA who live there.

 

[Blanche]

could I please ask if there is a map of the location showing the route it is thought they took leading to where they were found? thank you , still trying to get my head round the area and where the bridge is in relation to where they were found , have seen some YT on this but not an actual visual to "see" that route or any alternative routes they could have taken.

 

[Jax49]

could I please ask if there is a map of the location showing the route it is thought they took leading to where they were found? thank you , still trying to get my head round the area and where the bridge is in relation to where they were found , have seen some YT on this but not an actual visual to "see" that route or any alternative routes they could have taken.

Link to case map:

Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps