Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

[Falling Down]

In February this question was presented to the Carroll County Sheriff in a newspaper article and he answered thusly:

Q. Is there partial DNA or a full DNA profile of the suspect?

If there is DNA, has it been run against a genealogy DNA database?

A. This also speaks to an evidentiary aspect of the investigation.

So he elected not to answer the question, citing the integrity of the investigation.
Source: County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

However, a few weeks later a documentary on the murders aired on HLN and he was asked if LE have DNA in the case and he answered that they do have DNA but they do not know if it's the killer's DNA.

We know that investigators in the Delphi case previously consulted with ex-criminologist Paul Holes, who was involved with the solving of the Golden State Killer case using genetic genealogy: ‘They Have A Tough Investigation Ahead:' Paul Holes On The Delphi Murders | Oxygen Official Site

IMO the only point in consulting with Holes specifically is to gain his perspective on genetic genealogy techniques. So from this we can guess that Delphi investigators hoped to use these methods or at least look into them. It should be noted that Holes believes, per that article, that their road will be a difficult one. This technique would be a legal strategy to pursue if the DNA Delphi investigators have is usable.

The other piece of info that pertains to this is that familial DNA searches in crime databases aren't legal in Indiana at this time. This is the method that caught the Grim Sleeper serial killer in California - investigators had unmatched DNA from his crimes and when his son was arrested for an unrelated felony, his DNA came back as a partial match for the Grim Sleeper. This told investigators that they needed to look at close relatives of the son as the contributor for the unsolved rapes/murders. This investigative method is allowed in about 15 states but Indiana is not currently one of them.

Also GSK left his DNA at all of the crime scenes. Delphi is like the polar opposite in that regard, the killer didn't leave much of any forensic evidence that we know of which would lead back to him, and besides it happened outside in a wooded area.

I don't understand why Holes was consulted, other than for star appeal.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

Also GSK left his DNA at all of the crime scenes. Delphi is like the polar opposite in that regard, the killer didn't leave much of any forensic evidence that we know of which would lead back to him, and besides it happened outside in a wooded area.

I don't understand why Holes was consulted, other than for star appeal.

JMO

MOO - the "consultation" happened, according to that article, while both Holes and the investigator were at CrimeCon that year so it perhaps says less about the actual evidence that they have and more about just the circumstances of two professionals happening to meet.

 

[LaborDayRN]

In reference to the man who got caught with a nine-year-old in his house and who resembles BG: He doesn’t seem like a simple opportunist to me.

I just want to point out that when a pedophile has a pet, they use that pet to lure children to them. When a pedophile lives in a neighborhood with little children and takes their dog out front where the dog is accessible to little children, that pedophile might as well be holding out candy bars and waiting for the children to ask if they can have them.

In my opinion, this disgusting excuse for a man is using a tried and true pedophile playbook. They all know that they need to make it appear that the child approached them, not the other way around.

This was absolutely not a crime of opportunity. It was a cold, calculated hunt for a child. Like putting a salt lick out for a deer and sitting in the blind, wearing camo, covering yourself with deer urine and being very quiet while sighting the gun.
No excuses.

This little child did not put him in a situation where “the opportunity arose and couldn’t resist”.
He hunted her.
MOO

I totally agree. This guy is a monster! IMO he never had any intention of letting this little girl go. I believe had LE not shown up this little one would have been killed and possibly never found.
Whoever killed Abby & Libby was out hunting too. I can see his body type in the video and still photos of bridge guy. I hope LE finds the evidence they need to tie him to Abby & Libby if it's out there. Most importantly, I hope he's never allowed out of prison. IMO he WILL reoffend.

 

[somequestions]

Right-handed, according to this: Chadwell video

Did LE ever figure out if the "bridge guy" in Liberty German's video was right or left-handed?

A few people have zoomed into the video and it looks like he might have moved his face towards the left for second. It is very hard to determine from that video, but this person tells the girls to go down the hill. When walking towards them it is as if he is blocking them from going to the right. So he has them go left down the hill. I thought maybe he favors his left side.

I know there could be any number of other reasons for going down the left side of the hill with the number one reason being that is where the girls were already standing when he approached them.

 

[mekeritrig]

MOO - the "consultation" happened, according to that article, while both Holes and the investigator were at CrimeCon that year so it perhaps says less about the actual evidence that they have and more about just the circumstances of two professionals happening to meet.

Here's a transcription of what Paul Holes had to say about the case and his interaction with Indiana State Police (this quote is taken from episode 36 of the Murder Squad podcast @ 47:10)

Paul Holes: "Yeah and I think that is a situation to where maybe there was too much being held back [referring to audio being held back in the Delphi case] because very shortly after the Golden State Killer episode [episode released April 22, 2019] when DeAngelo was taken into custody, Indiana State Police did reach out to me to try to figure out how did we have success with Golden State Killer. So I ended up getting some details in that case that I am not able to divulge publicly. And as I listen to what you're saying I think there's details within what the offender did to the victim that would be appropriate holdback information. But then there's information about the offender that they have recorded that there's no reason why they just couldn't put it all out there right now with the hope that the right person hears it, and recognizes it, and calls that name in."​

 

[Slawsb]

right ..if he was seen indeed after a bloody murder and wasn't detected.. then he is not sloppy ..

OR he was incredibly lucky...

 

[Slawsb]

If that composite sketch matched the suspect, then certainly there’s hope in this case.

Most Definately

 

[CrimeAway]

Thanks so much. That is exactly what I was looking for. I also didn't realize that DNA crime related genealogy searches were not permissible in Indiana.

Correct - genetic genealogy searches using databases like GEDMatch or proprietary databases that companies like Parabon have created ARE legal (this is what was done in the April Tinsley case). Using state or national crime databases to look for criminals that are close familial genetic relatives, thus furthering the pool of POI to be looked into, are NOT allowed at this time in Indiana.

The difference is that genetic genealogy looks at the genetic information of potential close relatives that are "regular people" who opted into their genetic information being shared via open databases. Familial searching in crime databases is based on DNA required from felons, which right now is closed to partial match searching in Indiana. In CA or NY, it is legal to do.

Hopefully, there are some residents in Indiana who might want to contact their elected representatives to consider a change in these laws . All MOO

 

[CrimeAway]

Did LE ever figure out if the "bridge guy" in Liberty German's video was right or left-handed?

A few people have zoomed into the video and it looks like he might have moved his face towards the left for second. It is very hard to determine from that video, but this person tells the girls to go down the hill. When walking towards them it is as if he is blocking them from going to the right. So he has them go left down the hill. I thought maybe he favors his left side.

I know there could be any number of other reasons for going down the left side of the hill with the number one reason being that is where the girls were already standing when he approached them.

In my experience coaching sports, handedness is not necessarily correlated to leg dominance or preferred turning direction. All MOO.

 

[CrimeAway]

If that composite sketch matched the suspect, then certainly there’s hope in this case.

There's also the sketch from the Pawel Relowicz case (Libby Squire murder).

The 'ridiculous' E-fit which helped to catch Pawel Relowicz

 

[MistyWaters]

Did LE ever figure out if the "bridge guy" in Liberty German's video was right or left-handed?

A few people have zoomed into the video and it looks like he might have moved his face towards the left for second. It is very hard to determine from that video, but this person tells the girls to go down the hill. When walking towards them it is as if he is blocking them from going to the right. So he has them go left down the hill. I thought maybe he favors his left side.

I know there could be any number of other reasons for going down the left side of the hill with the number one reason being that is where the girls were already standing when he approached them.

GH has compiled several videos to gauge the position of BG including the forked tree and other surrounding features beside and behind him and the angle of the ties in order to determine where he was walking and where Libby was standing.

In his estimation BG is about 80 feet away from Libby when she captured him on her cellphone video. No doubt that’s why the video/photos are very grainy in quality. So indeed he seems to be walking towards them but I don’t think he’s immediately in front of them at the time of the video, even though it might appear so in the video/photo which LE released. I think it was zoomed in so as not to feature a far away 2 inch figure at a distance which wouldn’t be helpful in IDing the suspect at all.. JMO

BBM

This appears to be the actual location of the suspect. He appears to be located near the platform which means Libby and Abby were at the end of the SE side of the bridge or perhaps even off the end slightly. The suspect is about 80 feet from them. all the elements appear to line up. Although some elements might change this up, it appears to be accurate.

 

[Questions123]

With regards to the water they girls were found near is it common for people to go fishing there? I've heard about the deer hunting on land but I'm curious about the water?

 

[mekeritrig]

With regards to the water they girls were found near is it common for people to go fishing there? I've heard about the deer hunting on land but I'm curious about the water?

Quote from a Carroll Country Comet newspaper article from 2015 describing the area the trail is located at.

More people are coming to the Monon High Bridge Trail east of Delphi. Freedom Bridge, the trail’s walkway over the Hoosier Heartland Highway, is an attraction, but many choose to stick to the rural, wooded section on the eastern end. One man from Monticello says he now comes every week. A woman says she enjoys the peaceful fishing on Deer Creek in the Gerard Nature Preserve of NICHES, which is on a side trail off of the main trail.
​

So yes, fishing there was apparently common enough to be mentioned.

 

[carbuff]

If that composite sketch matched the suspect, then certainly there’s hope in this case.

Composites aren't really meant to "match" the suspect. They're meant to trigger recognition in the people who know the person. When I took a forensics class a couple of years ago, one of the things they mentioned was that caricatures--deliberate exaggeration of facial features--is often very effective in getting people to respond, as that example shows. More realistic sketches sometimes fail because a relative looks at it and thinks, "That person looks like of like Cousin Jack but it's not him."

 

[Yemelyan]

Hopefully, there are some residents in Indiana who might want to contact their elected representatives to consider a change in these laws . All MOO

Yes, these laws change all the time. The Journal & Courier article posted by @margarita25 upthread was mostly about the efforts of one guy who has been trying since 2014 to change the law on this. He was the one who was talking about how Indiana labs already have the technology to do it, it's just a matter of whether it is legal to do. In my state the use of partial familial matching in criminal databases was just legalized in April.

 

[margarita25]

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide | Carroll County Comet
April 29, 2020

“Leazenby advised there is DNA from the crime scene but refused to divulge from where it originated. He said there is “suggestive” evidence of fingerprints found at the crime scene.

“This is not simple,” the Sheriff said. “This is not television. DNA can come from all sorts of places and fingerprints can be smudged and hard to identify.””

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I listened to the video and his voice doesn't seem to match IMO. He is a creep and sex offender, and glad he got caught! I guess they will have to see if what DNA they have can rule him in or not, and does he have an alibi for that day. IDK, I hope they have their guy, but not sure.

I agree Skully. MOO... but I really think (and hope) the investigators do a rewind and look at some of the early POI's. My hinky meter goes haywire just reviewing a couple of the early ones (not saying these two were poi) I have looked at their pics over and over and each time I do, I can't dismiss what I see. No proof, just gut instincts.

 

[Questions123]

Quote from a Carroll Country Comet newspaper article from 2015 describing the area the trail is located at.

More people are coming to the Monon High Bridge Trail east of Delphi. Freedom Bridge, the trail’s walkway over the Hoosier Heartland Highway, is an attraction, but many choose to stick to the rural, wooded section on the eastern end. One man from Monticello says he now comes every week. A woman says she enjoys the peaceful fishing on Deer Creek in the Gerard Nature Preserve of NICHES, which is on a side trail off of the main trail.
​

So yes, fishing there was apparently common enough to be mentioned.

Thanks for that. I'm wondering if the connection to that particular area was regular fishing either from recent times before the murders or much of their childhood was spent there.

I'd agree the person was local and had not some knowledge but a lot of knowledge of that area. The only way you would get that is regular visits. Something like fishing or hunting would not raise suspicion and it's perfectly normal to cover up or use disguises but regularly walking the trail might.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Did LE ever figure out if the "bridge guy" in Liberty German's video was right or left-handed?

A few people have zoomed into the video and it looks like he might have moved his face towards the left for second. It is very hard to determine from that video, but this person tells the girls to go down the hill. When walking towards them it is as if he is blocking them from going to the right. So he has them go left down the hill. I thought maybe he favors his left side.

I know there could be any number of other reasons for going down the left side of the hill with the number one reason being that is where the girls were already standing when he approached them.

I have read in a post near the beginning that he appeared left handed. I think it was because he had what appeared to be watch on his right hand.

 

[Justice101]

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