Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[Charlot123]

IF the killer hates female humans, then above all maybe he hates 2 women, who are married with one another. The Delphi killer came around very quick, but we don't know, to which states he came around very quick (because he just had the opportunity via his job/his money/both).

If there is a even a tiny crossover between Moab and Delphi killer, we might be speaking about a very different psychological type.

Who is not unlike Robert Lewis Dear JR., the shooter in Colorado Springs PP clinic.

For very long, I was wondering how the Delphi killer could be even minimally religious. “Non-secular” did not sit with me, how could any believer do such a heinous thing?

But…Robert Dear has been kept in a mental institution, being incompetent to stand trial. Here is what his ex-wife said about him (source: Wikipedia) “He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions. He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”

That would require a different killer, more psychotic and probably, not successful in life, but what do we know?

MOO.

 

[sandy_80]

Or cleanse them?

At least, that would fit into hate crime?

Are there any other gay/lesbian couples murdered in the country?

Actually, I was thinking that for a psychotic person on the mission to “cleanse” the world from gays or lesbians, any gesture, any behavior would be distorted. Libby and Abby could hug or kiss, and it already could look as the “indication”. Libby was wearing a tie-dyed rainbow-colored T-shirt, it could have been enough. Also, a sad parallel: it is often mentioned that tomboyish Libby could have incited more hatred in the killer. Likewise, in Moab murders, Crystal, an older, more masculine woman, apparently, was attacked worse, as it is said in Fox article I linked in my previous post.

sorry.. you are taking this in a very unlikely direction ..this is a case of young adults or children
.there is no connection between the two cases

 

[evilwise]

gawl...what is it with killers and creeks? killers and bodies of water ? just weird..does anyone know the psychology behind this? mOO

Putting a corpse in water is the fastest most effective way to dispose of it and it quickly destroys evidence as well. There need not be any deeper meaning than that. Most killers think of their victims' bodies as trash.

 

[sandy_80]

I have a question about dna ...if its indeed a partial dna profile from a touch dna ...how does the comparing happens.. do they test it every time a different suspect comes or they use data ?
I have confusion as i def heard a detective working on an old case saying the dna evidence is used they are afraid to test it again it would be destroyed ?

 

[Yemelyan]

I have a question about dna ...if its indeed a partial dna profile from a touch dna ...how does the comparing happens.. do they test it every time a different suspect comes or they use data ?
I have confusion as i def heard a detective working on an old case saying the dna evidence is used they are afraid to test it again it would be destroyed ?

LE would have a lab develop a DNA profile (even if partial) from whatever biological sample they obtained and this would be kept as a digitized file to be compared with the DNA of any suspects. The DNA would not need to be extracted and re-sequenced by the lab each and every time a comparison needed to be done.

What you may be thinking of (if an older case) is that when DNA was first being used in criminal cases, labs used a method called RFLP testing that required a relatively large amount of good quality DNA. However, as technology improved, labs started doing PCR testing, which allowed them to amplify even very tiny amounts of DNA. So there was no longer the issue with "using up" a sample that had existed for earlier cases.

 

[Shamrock1]

Girls - yes, girls - are very sensitive to “creepy” males, IMO. The recent Moab murders can’t be connected to Delpi on the basis of a creepy guy - girls and women encounter men who seem “creepy”all the time. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

sorry.. you are taking this in a very unlikely direction ..this is a case of young adults or children
.there is no connection between the two cases

I don’t know. After so many years have passed, I don’t think he is local, anymore. And if not, then he can live anywhere, and prey on anyone.

 

[distracted]

I don’t know. After so many years have passed, I don’t think he is local, anymore. And if not, then he can live anywhere, and prey on anyone.

I agree. And I think BG will kill again, if he hasn't already, unless he's currently serving a lifetime prison sentence.

 

[sandy_80]

LE would have a lab develop a DNA profile (even if partial) from whatever biological sample they obtained and this would be kept as a digitized file to be compared with the DNA of any suspects. The DNA would not need to be extracted and re-sequenced by the lab each and every time a comparison needed to be done.

What you may be thinking of (if an older case) is that when DNA was first being used in criminal cases, labs used a method called RFLP testing that required a relatively large amount of good quality DNA. However, as technology improved, labs started doing PCR testing, which allowed them to amplify even very tiny amounts of DNA. So there was no longer the issue with "using up" a sample that had existed for earlier cases.

yes but you see.. the cold case detective in question is a new one assigned to an old case with a very bad/used sample and i am sure he was talking about the current situation ? it was on scene of the crime podcast for this case
so i am still confused
IA - IA - Rose Burkert, 22, & Roger Atkison, 32, Williamsburg, 12 Sept 1980

 

[LeeJay55]

I agree. And I think BG will kill again, if he hasn't already, unless he's currently serving a lifetime prison sentence.

If hes.in prison they have his DNA they would know !
This is why I do not believe DNA was.found on the girls!
They can't even rule.anyone out because there is no dna!

They will never.find this guy!

 

[LeeJay55]

yes but you see.. the cold case detective in question is a new one assigned to an old case with a very bad/used sample and i am sure he was talking about the current situation ? it was on scene of the crime podcast for this case
so i am still confused
IA - IA - Rose Burkert, 22, & Roger Atkison, 32, Williamsburg, 12 Sept 1980

I think.like.lets.say its a drop.of.blood every time they test it they use a little.till there is nothing left. They try to save it if it's a small.sample!

 

[Yemelyan]

yes but you see.. the cold case detective in question is a new one assigned to an old case with a very bad/used sample and i am sure he was talking about the current situation ? it was on scene of the crime podcast for this case
so i am still confused
IA - IA - Rose Burkert, 22, & Roger Atkison, 32, Williamsburg, 12 Sept 1980

I haven't listened to this season of the podcast and the remarks you're referring to so this is just a guess on my part, but if LE is hoping to find DNA from skin cells on something the killer might have touched, they might be planning to use something like the M-Vac system to try to collect the DNA. This doesn't destroy the item of evidence itself, but how it works is by spraying the item with a DNA collection fluid and then, essentially, vacuuming up whatever was on the surface of the item. The solution is then sprayed into a filter and subjected to DNA analysis to see if any profiles can be obtained (there's no guarantee that they will, however). So this technology has the chance to move the case forward if it works; if it doesn't, due to the vacuum techniques used on the surface of your item of evidence it's not super likely you'll be able to go back and look for touch DNA on it using a different method. IMO.

So if all they have in the case you're referring to is a hope of collecting old touch DNA from a few random skin cells, that's what could be going on with their fear of never being able to re-test. If they have items that they suspect actually contain the killer's blood or saliva, for example, then they don't need to really worry about destruction of their sample. Labs can do DNA amplification techniques so that even one drop is plenty.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree. And I think BG will kill again, if he hasn't already, unless he's currently serving a lifetime prison sentence.

Hm… maybe the group of men that were convicted, for sexual assaults, but did not end up in prison, killing themselves instead, should be looked at.

I don’t think BG would choose jail. The fact that PE has been ruled neither out, nor in, is also interesting. Is that the situation where the partial DNA from the CS somehow matches PE’s one? Maybe mitochondrial DNA does? A mitomatch in this case would create a “neither-nor” situation. Could BG be a distant relative of PE, since he probably has certain vague ties to Indiana?

I assume, however, that these dudes’ DNAs are in Codis and can be cross-matched. I know there is a backlog, but fresh cases, for the trials, should have been processed?

 

[Charlot123]

I think.like.lets.say its a drop.of.blood every time they test it they use a little.till there is nothing left. They try to save it if it's a small.sample!

No, today, with PCR, they can amplify minuscule amounts. There are interesting situations when they “over-amplify”, as it was described in a wonderful book “When the dogs don’t bark”, but criminologists learn on their mistakes.

(Owing to books and shows, the whole generation of smart, strong women chose criminology and criminal pathology as their profession, so there is no lack of good brains in the field, btw).

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's my understanding from another Indiana murder case that the criteria for submission to the national DNA databank is very strict. So if there isn't a hit on an Indiana submission, it may not be accepted into the national databank. I tried to find what the criteria are but haven't yet succeeded.

 

[CCJD]

It's my understanding from another Indiana murder case that the criteria for submission to the national DNA databank is very strict. So if there isn't a hit on an Indiana submission, it may not be accepted into the national databank. I tried to find what the criteria are but haven't yet succeeded.

10. What is the National DNA Index System (NDIS)?
NDIS is the acronym for the “National DNA Index System” and is one part of CODIS—the national level—containing the DNA profiles contributed by federal, state, and local participating forensic laboratories

DNA Data Requirements

17. What DNA data is accepted at NDIS?

Currently, DNA data generated through PCR Short Tandem Repeat (STR) technology, Y chromosome STR (Y STR) technology, and Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) technology are accepted at NDIS.

Y STR and mtDNA data are only searched with the missing person-related indexes.

The National DNA Index no longer searches DNA data developed using restriction fragment length polymorphism (RFLP) technology.

18. Are there specific data requirements for the DNA records submitted to NDIS?

Yes. There are several requirements for the DNA data submitted to NDIS:

The DNA data must be generated in accordance with the FBI Director’s Quality Assurance Standards;

The DNA data must be generated by a laboratory that is accredited by an approved accrediting agency;

The DNA data must be generated by a laboratory that undergoes an external audit every two years to demonstrate compliance with the FBI Director’s Quality Assurance Standards;

The DNA data must be one of the categories of data acceptable at NDIS, such as convicted offender, arrestee, detainee, legal, forensic (casework), unidentified human remains, missing person, or a relative of missing person;

The DNA data must meet minimum CODIS Core Loci requirements for the specimen category;

The DNA PCR data must be generated using PCR accepted kits; and

Participating laboratories must have and follow expungement procedures in accordance with federal law.

Much more here: CODIS and NDIS Fact Sheet — FBI

 

[sandy_80]

the quality of DNA recovered from crime scenes may vary. Where the condition of recovered material is very poor, DNA may have degraded such that the DNA variations at loci are no longer preserved intact, or the amount of DNA present in the sample is extremely low

..
i went in and listened again to the podcast about the case i mentioned ..and it seems that partial dna missing loci to complete the profile .. so they keep testing the evidence searching for the missing loci.. with breaking and re testing the evidence.. it can become destroyed and thus useless for further testing

 

[FromGermany1]

If hes.in prison they have his DNA they would know !
This is why I do not believe DNA was.found on the girls!
They can't even rule.anyone out because there is no dna!

They will never.find this guy!

I would say: They have DNA. But BG didn't got caught before, and if he ever was in prison short time, he hadn't to go through swapping his DNA (only misdemeanour). IMO

 

[heartgoesout]

LE repeatedly said they have DNA. They discuss sending it out, fast tracking, etc...
I followed a case where LE had the POI's DNA from almost the beginning of a case but no arrest for 4 years.

 

[LeeJay55]

LE repeatedly said they have DNA. They discuss sending it out, fast tracking, etc...
I followed a case where LE had the POI's DNA from almost the beginning of a case but no arrest for 4 years.

Then none of the ppl being g looked at are the the killer!
They would.know!

They have.photo of this dude yet no one.knows him!
His.voice!

Is he the one that.killed them?
Or.was.it.someone else?
Was this guy alone? I dont think he was.alone!
But that's jmo!
What was he doing there? To meet someone?
I still think they saw something!
I hope one day we find out!