Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #140

[gregjrichards]

Bringing fwd some of the recent MSM (more including ISP release, MSM videos, photos, IG, PC affidavit, etc. here)

Thank you @magarita25 this is very helpful and much appreciated. Hope you are well.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

Not only are improvements being made in computer forensics; Huge improvements are being made in DNA analysis. They've been able to make very accurate sketches of what people would look like from DNA. A problem with this is when you have no idea the age of the perpetrator, do you draw a 20 year old from the DNA analysis or a 70 year old. IF you draw a 70 year old, what facial scars or surgeries have they had.

Well, if you look at his chin, you see many similarities with older players in the case.

 

[FromGermany1]

That’s for sure a joint he’s smoking in that picture. Not a cigarette.

Oh, I didn't see it, cigarette smoker that I am.

 

[FromGermany1]

Wait… Umm what? All that is news to me! Links??

We had the pic already within this thread. Idk the source.
Here an example:
'Delphi murders' catfish has been jailed for a YEAR for child *advertiser censored* arrest

 

[Charlot123]

9 or so years ago, I ran my dna and a few other family members with different eye colors through a program and they were accurate. It was fairly new (to the public) and I tried just mine again a few months later and my eye color was not accurate the second time.

Fast forward to just a few years ago and I've been seeing Forensic shows on the topic. I'm sure they use their 'best case' scenarios and they are very accurate - as if a sketch artist is looking at the person. IMO, it will be accurate on estimated ethnicity, estimated height, etc. Where it cannot be accurate would be issues such as small stature due to malnutrition. IDK that Fetal Alcohol Syndrome would show up in the DNA testing done at the crime lab.

My interest in this related to THIS crime - the 'red brown hair' - is this from an eyewitness, DNA, or hair at the crime scene.?

I think I might be telling this story for the fifth time, so, sorry - my eyes are blue-grey, interpreted by all analyzers as “brown”. Of my family members, no one has even hazel eyes, but only my dad’s eyes are read as “blue”. The rest are in the “5% with such a genotype that have blue eyes”. So I always laugh at “definitely not blue”, as IRL, this dude might end up in 5%, too. I hope someone saw his eyes close enough.

With the hair, I also hope that it was his hair lost at the CS. And, that he did not wear a wig made of human hair.

 

[Angleterre]

YBG - young bridge guy

OBG - old bridge guy

Thank you
I feel so silly now

 

[TL4S]

With the hair, I also hope that it was his hair lost at the CS.

Rsbm

I hope so, too. I've always hoped his hat got knocked off during the commission of the crime. Even if he retrieved it before he left, it might have left some hair.

 

[Angleterre]

Thank you for the feedback and for trying to help alleviate my confusion.



Wouldn't releasing at minimum, the name in the fake profile be easier to jog memories than releasing a rendering that doesn't even resemble the real person depicted in the profile (who is innocent?) JMO
(I know some here think Sketch 2 is a dead ringer for the victim in this case...I don't see any resemblance at all.)



Quoted bbm
I agree @MistyWaters

This right here is the key. They would put an innocent person at risk by using his picture to solicit more tips on a murder case that he has no knowledge of.



Quoted bbm

And that right there is the reason why it seems irresponsible to me that LE would ever release a sketch representing someone who has been deemed innocent of the crimes in order to get tips in a double murder case


Great points @TL4S !
Quoted bbm
This last line here sums it up perfectly!

JMO

I think we all need to keep the faith and continue to be patient, even when we haven't been given very many reasons to understand why LE has done what they have done thus far. (And they also don't owe us, the public, their reasoning behind their actions.)

I think they are getting close.

Well said @bradfordsleuth
They know a lot more than we do so I can’t imagine LE being ‘irresponsible’ at this stage of the investigation. They know exactly who the players are, they just need the links throughout now, I believe. JMOO

 

[Angleterre]

Okay, thrice again and even more clearly - Law Enforcement could not assume that the sketch was of the innocent model. Again, the sketch might have been of an actual person of interest in the case. It does not bear a particularly strong resemblance to the male model.

A male model who lives far from the crime, most likely was visibly older than in the photos even at the time of the crime and is almost certainly in no way related to the case. I'm sure no one and I mean no one thought he resembled the sketch.

Now, when they showed the fake profile with pictures of him I bet he blew up, relative to whatever notoriety he ever had as a model anyway and it probably blindsided him although even the earliest articles I read explicitly stated that the person in the photos was not the person of interest. People don't seem to read articles beyond headlines and photos though.

@evilwise
Very well said
I couldn’t have put it better myself
Thank you

 

[Yemelyan]

Not only are improvements being made in computer forensics; Huge improvements are being made in DNA analysis. They've been able to make very accurate sketches of what people would look like from DNA. A problem with this is when you have no idea the age of the perpetrator, do you draw a 20 year old from the DNA analysis or a 70 year old. IF you draw a 70 year old, what facial scars or surgeries have they had.

Along with the problem of age, there are so many traits, like weight and to a certain extent height - that are influenced by environment, heavily affect appearance and cannot be accurately predicted. Should the image show a 180 pound man or a 300 pound man? You mentioned a 70 year old with scars that alter their appearance but a young person can have a broken nose or acne-scarred skin just as easily as an older one.

I think the prediction of traits like ethnic background, eye and hair color are useful to LE but I don't think the Parabon sketches themselves are that useful (to me they all look alike) unless LE has independently corroborated info from witnesses that can be added, which I have seen done sometimes. But "sketches" in general are not used for identifying offenders per se so much as they are used as a tool to develop leads or lines of inquiry.

 

[DeDee]

It has been suggested by OP and I agree that many of the teenagers both male and female who interacted with the anthony_shots in 2017 and the years prior and after would now be young adults. They may be more willing to come forward as adults and they’ve had time to come to terms with whatever that contact consisted of and braved sharing their stories.

It is one thing to willingly come forward with information concerning the profile Anthony_shots' solicitation yet quite another to simply remember the specific usernames Anthony_shots or emilyanne45 from five years ago. There were appx 15 victims (pg 2).

Judging by the Probable Cause in this case, the number of victims may not be high in number but there are times when their contact was lengthy. IE, one victim's contact using Kik Chat 135* was almost 6 months long (Apr-Oct 2016) with emilyanne45. That particular victim may definitely recall details from their encounters.

* See pages 20 - 23 of the PCA for the conversations on Kik Chat 135.
https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

I believe it to be likely that the contact with our victims, A&L, was by using the white iPhone 5c. It was not taken in the initial FEB 25 search warrant yet was turned in to the ISP on FEB 27 after KAK uninstalled and deleted all of the (5+) apps as soon as he got home from taking the polygraph at the Peru Police Station and also on the following day, FEB 26. (pg 33)

Evidence on the iPhone 5c was destroyed when KAK deleted the apps. Some still images were recovered.

I do hope LEO was able to recover data from any contact with KAK from LGs iPhone even though her phone went through a factory reset.

"Yes, data can be recovered utilising a forensic data recovery process after a factory reset."
Can mobile phone data be recovered after a reset - NSI Global
.

 

[Charlot123]

When I finally visited my dad, living far away, in the interval between original Covid-19 and delta variant, I changed his very old phone to a new one, locks and all, and of the apps I use, I installed only FB.

A month ago I got a notification that my FB was logged in from a place very afar; I immediately changed all the passwords, of course. To me it looks like someone taking care of dad was curious about my FB, and probably figured the lock, but given the mileage between real me and the place where it was opened, the FB system responded immediately…

Question, if someone logged into my FB very close to real me, say, 14 miles away; imagine it was another phone on my ATT, or Verison, account, would Facebook respond so promptly? Or would it think it was still me?

Same with instagram or any other app. All that people need to know is the passcode to the phone, but it might be not so difficult to figure out.

Another option (again, from my experience). Since Verizon offered us only $150 for two barely used cellphones when we were upgrading them, I said, forget these monopolies; then I performed factory reset on the old one, and gave it to a person who lives in very constrained circumstances and recently lost his phone; he’d never afford even a used iPhone X. Today, with Cellebrite platform, they can recover what this guy who got my phone has on it, but also, what I used as well? What if I did send these old phones to Verizon for $ 150, and they wiped them off and sold it to another customer, and he got in trouble? Would mining of his cellphone activity uncover mine, too?

What I want to say: I suspect that KAK’s media is linked to A&L case, but it doesn’t mean that so is KAK. If KAK was following one of girls’ IG as anthony_shots, and she was following him, it would have been easier for him to get connected to her Snapchat and FB and other media. If KAK does not log out of his apps (many of us don’t), and someone close to him (in his house, or a friend, or his then-GF’s brother…you name it) could have access to his phone, or he lended it to someone, it could have been super easy to connect with the girls. If he has the habit of not logging out of his apps, all that is needed is his phone lock combination.

So he either knows who was using his phone and is afraid of saying it, or he really has a vague idea (was high and sleepy, and someone was using it in the meantime? Just an example). MOO, of course.

 

[mekeritrig]

Question, if someone logged into my FB very close to real me, say, 14 miles away; imagine it was another phone on my ATT, or Verison, account, would Facebook respond so promptly? Or would it think it was still me?

Same with instagram or any other app. All that people need to know is the passcode to the phone, but it might be not so difficult to figure out.

Another option (again, from my experience). Since Verizon offered us only $150 for two barely used cellphones when we were upgrading them, I said, forget these monopolies; then I performed factory reset on the old one, and gave it to a person who lives in very constrained circumstances and recently lost his phone; he’d never afford even a used iPhone X. Today, with Cellebrite platform, they can recover what this guy who got my phone has on it, but also, what I used as well? What if I did send these old phones to Verizon for $ 150, and they wiped them off and sold it to another customer, and he got in trouble? Would mining of his cellphone activity uncover mine, too?

For the first question, websites and apps usually track users by the devices and IP addresses they use. So if your account attempts to log in via a new device or a new IP address they may flag your activity as unusual and may send you an automatic email or ask for you to do some kind of 2-step verification to confirm the login attempt is from you.

For the second question, something to be understood about uninstalling programs or deleting files on a phone or computer (such as via a factory reset) is that data can usually be recovered unless specialized software is used to rewrite all the memory available. Deleting a file simply frees up space on a file system to be reallocated and does not usually change the actual memory values until you download something new to be written on that reallocated space. For people who are particularly security-minded who don't want forensic analysis of their devices to yield recoverable data they would need to use special software that physically writes 0's or 1's onto every bit of memory that was used to store data to permanently remove the traces of whatever had been previously stored on the device.

 

[Charlot123]

For the first question, websites and apps usually track users by the devices and IP addresses they use. So if your account attempts to log in via a new device or a new IP address they may flag your activity as unusual and may send you an automatic email or ask for you to do some kind of 2-step verification to confirm the login attempt is from you.

For the second question, something to be understood about uninstalling programs or deleting files on a phone or computer (such as via a factory reset) is that data can usually be recovered unless specialized software is used to rewrite all the memory available. Deleting a file simply frees up space on a file system to be reallocated and does not usually change the actual memory values until you download something new to be written on that reallocated space. For people who are particularly security-minded who don't want forensic analysis of their devices to yield recoverable data they would need to use special software that physically writes 0's or 1's onto every bit of memory that was used to store data to permanently remove the traces of whatever had been previously stored on the device.

Thank you!

For the first question, I think FB noticed “me” opening my FB from two points, at a distance of 5000 miles, within 5 minutes, and wanted to know, why?

For the second question, I’d rather donate my phones to the poor than make a rich company make extra profit of them, but this seems to be unsafe these days…sigh. ((

But about KAK, I honestly think someone used his phone, and this is the degree to which he is linked to A&L case. (He is still a pedophile and a nasty human being, though).

 

[Burnt Toast]

Yes I mentioned that. I realize it was not a photo, but suggesting that it was drawn from someone's memory, not the actual profile. I do think the perp was in that room and Carter knew he thought he was safe - thus "hiding in plain sight". It made no sense to me at the time.

I also think with new technology it's possible they extracted additional data not only from his phone but from Libby's as well.

I don't think he was in the room either.

 

[justice_hunter]

He is smoking! Good possibility, his cigarette butt was found at the MHB area, IF he maybe was an accomplice. Until today I don't think, he himself is BG (but might be a man, who was seen somewhere and described by witnesses perhaps - sketch #1).

I think he's smoking a joint in that photo...

 

[Boxer]

There is some footage of the people in the room. It must be somewhere in the media thread.
But MOO would Carter call a person who was had been searched regarding the crime, still on the police radar as "hiding in plain sight."

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Just a thought…
I don’t understand Snapchat and Instagram anywhere near as well as some of y’all do, so I’m asking if this is possible.
Last week someone suggested that maybe Libby posting the picture of Abby on the bridge was a message to Anthony_shots that they were at the bridge. A good question I thought.
My question is it possible Libby took and posted that picture and her only intent was to share it with her friends, but that because anthony_shots had attempted to catfish her, he would have received that picture along with her intended friends. Then he could have contacted someone he knew was close to the bridge about the girls being there.
This might explain why the girls were talking about the creepy guy and seemed to act as if they were not expecting anyone. Of course if might have been because they were expecting the cute guy and not this creepy guy.
So…is that possible? If so, it would mean Libby and Abby were not at the trails to meet anyone.

 

[Boxer]

Just a thought…
I don’t understand Snapchat and Instagram anywhere near as well as some of y’all do, so I’m asking if this is possible.
Last week someone suggested that maybe Libby posting the picture of Abby on the bridge was a message to Anthony_shots that they were at the bridge. A good question I thought.
My question is it possible Libby took and posted that picture and her only intent was to share it with her friends, but that because anthony_shots had attempted to catfish her, he would have received that picture along with her intended friends. Then he could have contacted someone he knew was close to the bridge about the girls being there.
This might explain why the girls were talking about the creepy guy and seemed to act as if they were not expecting anyone. Of course if might have been because they were expecting the cute guy and not this creepy guy.
So…is that possible? If so, it would mean Libby and Abby were not at the trails to meet anyone.

MOO doesn't fit timing.
MOO i think it's too long to get to the bridge after pic, also by AW picture time, BG had already been seen by them on the trail.
But... Good idea as we are not privy to the messaging going on before going to the bridge.
IIRC LG asked other people to go, and that is could habe been by SC or other app.

 

[MistyWaters]

It is one thing to willingly come forward with information concerning the profile Anthony_shots' solicitation yet quite another to simply remember the specific usernames Anthony_shots or emilyanne45 from five years ago. There were appx 15 victims (pg 2).

Judging by the Probable Cause in this case, the number of victims may not be high in number but there are times when their contact was lengthy. IE, one victim's contact using Kik Chat 135* was almost 6 months long (Apr-Oct 2016) with emilyanne45. That particular victim may definitely recall details from their encounters.

* See pages 20 - 23 of the PCA for the conversations on Kik Chat 135.
https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

I believe it to be likely that the contact with our victims, A&L, was by using the white iPhone 5c. It was not taken in the initial FEB 25 search warrant yet was turned in to the ISP on FEB 27 after KAK uninstalled and deleted all of the (5+) apps as soon as he got home from taking the polygraph at the Peru Police Station and also on the following day, FEB 26. (pg 33)

Evidence on the iPhone 5c was destroyed when KAK deleted the apps. Some still images were recovered.

I do hope LEO was able to recover data from any contact with KAK from LGs iPhone even though her phone went through a factory reset.

"Yes, data can be recovered utilising a forensic data recovery process after a factory reset."
Can mobile phone data be recovered after a reset - NSI Global
.

I’m hopeful for progress this week but as the excitement over KAK settles and plateaus, I’m thinking even if something is found to connect Libby’s phone to KAK, online contact spliced with speculation is not going to prove in a court of law that he murdered them. There will have to be some sort of evidence to place the murderer at the scene of the crime

As for younger guy photo, I simply can’t believe LE would knowingly release a sketch of a photo of a known innocent man, and who most certainly can’t have been sighted near the crime scene at the time of the murders. If they did, IMO that was a major error that led this investigation astray in the seeking of tips. Abby and Libby’s murder was not committed online.