Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #140

[steeltowngirl]

Possibly TJ? I believe he belonged to the same church youth group as the girls.
GUILTY - IN - Ryan Martin, 29, murdered in suspect Talmadge Jasper's home, Lafayette, 23 May 2019

RL, for a minute…

 

[stattlich1]

Over the years, I've considered numerous intimidation weapons in this case. Blowguns, darts, throwing knives/stars, etc.

But one that would get a middle schooler's attention would be a taser.

That being said, the very presentation of a firearm along with the verbal threat to kill would likely suffice in terms of achieving compliance.

 

[MollyDDD]

I don't think so? They had open casket services.

AMOO JMO MOO

Underneath clothing, no one would know. IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

From that link you just quoted, the following sentence is puzzling to me.

“Riley said the suspicions arose because of “the way the bodies were found, that’s about all I can say at this time.”

What could they mean by that, “the way they were found”?
Is it “how” the searchers found them? Where there signs or arrows posted in the direction of the bodies? Where their bodies wrapped up in something, or were they partially buried? It’s an odd choice of wording to me.
LE spoke of the unusual crime scene too. I’m no expert of crime scenes but I think they are mostly cut and dry.
You find a dead body, sometimes there’s an obvious visual cause of death such as a bullet or knife wound, or strangulation, or obvious injuries to the body. But “how” they were found implies to me, the way in which they were discovered, as if THAT was the unusual evidence. I don’t know if I’m explaining it right, I’m just thinking it’s not so much there cause of death, but what the murder/murderers did WITH their dead bodies afterwards. IMO

I’m there with you, puzzled. So much about this case has been puzzling. Carter said it again in 2019: “To the murderer, I believe you have just little bit of a conscience left, and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not what they're experiencing today.”

Delphi murders update 2019: New suspect sketch, video released

Then there are the signatures.
. . .
In the three years since the murders, police have released very little information about the crime scene, including how the two teens were killed and what kind of physical evidence was present.

But rumors have long circulated that the crime scene was bizarre and shocking to investigators, with unusual elements that police have been reluctant to reveal publicly.

Now, Ives reveals that the crime scene was nothing like murders he had encountered in the past, where typically a body is found with some evidence such as shell casings present.

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'

'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.

Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.

However, Ives raised the possibility that elements of the scene had been staged in an attempt to trick investigators by sending them down a false path.

Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens says they had signature elements | Daily Mail Online

 

[MollyDDD]

We've all wondered about the sound thing for some time. Gunshot? Scream? <modnsip> And if the girls were running from this killer could they have been out of breath and in a panic state when they got to the crime scene area? If that is the case, maybe they either didn't scream or scream loud enough. The crime scene was basically in a lower level and I know from hunting and being with military that hills can muffle the sound somewhat, negating how far away sound can be heard.

Still, I wonder why we've never heard anything about screams or gunshots. Even with sources - Facebook posts, Reddit, unauthorized YT videos, etc. - that can't be used here there is nothing about ANYONE hearing a scream. Not even the hint of a rumor.

Personally, I think they were both incapacitated early on, probably by having their throats cut, thus rendering them silent. (I apologize for the graphics) We read about how quickly this crime took place, so I think the killer spent more time on the display of the bodies, rather than time torturing them. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

I’m there with you, puzzled. So much about this case has been puzzling. Carter said it again in 2019: “To the murderer, I believe you have just little bit of a conscience left, and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not what they're experiencing today.”

Delphi murders update 2019: New suspect sketch, video released

Then there are the signatures.
. . .
In the three years since the murders, police have released very little information about the crime scene, including how the two teens were killed and what kind of physical evidence was present.

But rumors have long circulated that the crime scene was bizarre and shocking to investigators, with unusual elements that police have been reluctant to reveal publicly.

Now, Ives reveals that the crime scene was nothing like murders he had encountered in the past, where typically a body is found with some evidence such as shell casings present.

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'

'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.

Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.

However, Ives raised the possibility that elements of the scene had been staged in an attempt to trick investigators by sending them down a false path.

Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens says they had signature elements | Daily Mail Online

I’m not well versed on these “signatures” that some murderers leave behind, other than the BTK guy, but would it indicate that he or she is a serial killer? And if so,
I would think LE would be comparing those signs to other past murders. IMO

 

[mom2chloe]

Yes, but the problem is that if BG *used* the gun, the game would have been up and he would have needed to start running. For all BG knew, people on the trails would have heard a shot and wondered what was up, wouldn't they? Some were probably 300-400 yards away? So BG could have scared or intimidated the girls with a gun, but actually using it would have ended the event.

BG must have known that, though, don't you think? So my guess here is that he had some sort of ruse that made him feel confident in keeping the girls silent. Uniform/badge have been suggested many times and it seems workable IMO. Is there anything else, any other disguise or accessory or something, that could have ensured the girls didn't scream?

Just MHO, but once again, if one of the girls HAD screamed, it could certainly have landed BG in a jail cell for life. Or on a gurney with an IV in his arm. BG must (just MHO again) have felt secure about keeping the girls controlled.

It was mentioned that department of natural resources were seen there in a podcast I listened to last night which was posted up thread. I’m thinking Department of Fish and Wildlife for instance and have considered that since early on. I don’t know though because anyone official or faking it might appear intimidating. Anyone know what KK’s job was? Not accusing him merely wondering. IMO

 

[tokyorose]

this was flat out a set up..no question in my mind..we will find out how this played out...and who all was there that day..definitely no longer a random crime...not just some roaming Michael Meyers of the woodland...

a bait and switch.

mOO

I agree that's how this is looking and explains the complexity that LE continues to mention. Shadow accounts on multiple social media accounts on multiple devices that require multiple warrants and a lot of IT know how. Now imagine groups of individuals on the dark web who do this sort of stuff and it's easy to see how complex it becomes.

 

[tokyorose]

yes if this was a catfishing crime ...we would have known this from the start .. ...add to this that the decision to take them out to the trails was taken minutes before they went out.. with no time for the supposed bg to arrive there exactly on time ...
its just the power of suggestion that make ppl change their theories every time le says something...

Except it was referred to as a cat fishing crime from the beginning... the snapchat murders. Also MOO but I was under the impression that the girls had been figuring out a way to try to get to the trails since the morning. I suspect it was possibly a reason for the sleepover.

 

[DeDee]

This is an excellent point in my opinion. Maybe they’re awaiting more info from Paypal, Venmo etc. As a side note JBC also interested me because most addicts and people released from prison don’t have funds to put down a deposit and pay rent. This is also where they often fail while being reintegrated into society. Possibly both were making money on the side from things we have yet to learn. IMO
EBM to correct initials.

When JBC pled guilty and bypassed his rights to a fair trial, I knew we may be losing possible vital details that would have been released in court proceedings. Be awful for the child and her mother so it saves them from more trauma.

What is odd about KAK is that he cannot post bond and make his bail. That, to me, indicates his fantasies were mostly those of his own therefore not profit driven.

Money can certainly be made in distributing *advertiser censored*. If he's BG, was he recording their deaths, possibly? Snapping photos? Was *advertiser censored* found on JBCs el devices? JBC ever go to Peru? KAK travel to Kokomo, Lafayette, Logansport perhaps? There's a prisoner in same state as Kline also RSO. Wondered if it's genetically factored into some folks as why they must seek children? I cannot fathom the propensity!

jmhoo

 

[HistoryNut]

Yes, but the problem is that if BG *used* the gun, the game would have been up and he would have needed to start running. For all BG knew, people on the trails would have heard a shot and wondered what was up, wouldn't they? Some were probably 300-400 yards away? So BG could have scared or intimidated the girls with a gun, but actually using it would have ended the event.

BG must have known that, though, don't you think? So my guess here is that he had some sort of ruse that made him feel confident in keeping the girls silent. Uniform/badge have been suggested many times and it seems workable IMO. Is there anything else, any other disguise or accessory or something, that could have ensured the girls didn't scream?

Just MHO, but once again, if one of the girls HAD screamed, it could certainly have landed BG in a jail cell for life. Or on a gurney with an IV in his arm. BG must (just MHO again) have felt secure about keeping the girls controlled.

I agree with you. I think he knew that he couldn’t risk the girls screaming or firing a gun. The only scenario that makes sense to me is another prep was waiting and ready to pounce on those poor girls on the other side. They worked in tandem to overpower those poor girls and probably had weapons, possibly knives. It’s really horrible to think but they could have gagged them and tied up their hands. It doesn’t seem possible that’s one killer was able to pull this all off.

I also suspect that killers have done something like this before and hope that LE is looking for similar unsolved murders in other places, starting in Vegas. AMOO

 

[DeDee]

"is the person responsible"
bait? (in person or near the bridge)
left them tied up/incapacitated for another person? "the way you left them"

not sure what code speak accomplishes

"Person hiding in plain sight; in this very room or watching from home"
"We know this is about power to you." How do they know this about BG?
"they are not the way you left them" Always thought maybe there was a sacreligious overtone in posing them, on logs, as a signature, perhaps.
#TodaysTheDay
.

 

[MollyDDD]

"Person hiding in plain sight; in this very room or watching from home"
"We know this is about power to you." How do they know this about BG?
"they are not the way you left them" Always thought maybe there was a sacreligious overtone in posing them, on logs, as a signature, perhaps.
#TodaysTheDay
.

I find it interesting that the first searchers on the day they went missing, did not find them, but the next day, they were found in the spot that was searched the previous day.
How could the first searches not have seen them? IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I find it interesting that the first searchers on the day they went missing, did not find them, but the next day, they were found in the spot that was searched the previous day.
How could the first searches not have seen them? IMO

There were people out searching for the girls but we really don’t know if the exact spot they were found had been gone over.

 

[Ozoner]

this was flat out a set up..no question in my mind..we will find out how this played out...and who all was there that day..definitely no longer a random crime...not just some roaming Michael Meyers of the woodland...

a bait and switch.

mOO

You're making that statement with no evidence to support it

If it's based on the information surrounding Kline, all we know about the Kline case is that a tip to the Delphi hotline led to Kline, who was found to have committed other crimes.

The tip line may have led LE to numerous unrelated crimes. We have heard nothing so far that would connect Kline to the Delphi murders (though of course he needs to be investigated).

 

[DeDee]

You're making that statement with no evidence to support it

If it's based on the information surrounding Kline, all we know about the Kline case is that a tip to the Delphi hotline led to Kline, who was found to have committed other crimes.

The tip line may have led LE to numerous unrelated crimes. We have heard nothing so far that would connect Kline to the Delphi murders (though of course he needs to be investigated).

One undeniable fact is that KAK allegedly wrote himself an alibi on Facebook by changing the date on his Vegas employment, which he never worked at that casino in Vegas as has been clearly debunked. His entire profile except being affiliated with IN was fake.

There are screen captures of the edited version all over the www that shows the updated edit on that faux employment FB post he dated for FEB 13, 2017 indicating it was changed after the murders. Liar!

There's no normal reason for editing that day's employment if not for being coincidentally the date of the dbl homicides, FEB 13, 2017. There are no coincidences in murder investigations.

 

[minazoe]

my opinion only and I am just following the nature of the case to it's obvious conclusion...and I don't know at all if KAK was there..but he did have some connection.. and I am just going to go with LE on this...they know best. mOO

 

[MistyWaters]

I find it interesting that the first searchers on the day they went missing, did not find them, but the next day, they were found in the spot that was searched the previous day.
How could the first searches not have seen them? IMO

The search the previous day didn’t occur until after darkness because the girls weren’t reported missing until 5:30pm. Nowhere has anyone claimed to have searched that spot the previous night. The families said the search mainly involved people walking along the trails calling out their names. For sure nobody was looking for bodies

 

[MollyDDD]

There were people out searching for the girls but we really don’t know if the exact spot they were found had been gone over.

Oh, I thought that was what prompted the controversy in the beginning regarding whether or not the girls were taken to another location and killed and then brought back to the area where they were found. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

One undeniable fact is that KAK allegedly wrote himself an alibi on Facebook by changing the date on his Vegas employment, which he never worked at that casino in Vegas as has been clearly debunked. His entire profile except being affiliated with IN was fake.

There are screen captures of the edited version all over the www that shows the updated edit on that faux employment FB post he dated for FEB 13, 2017 indicating it was changed after the murders. Liar!

There's no normal reason for editing that day's employment if not for being coincidentally the date of the dbl homicides, FEB 13, 2017. There are no coincidences in murder investigations.

That’s all very true but he already knew he was tied into the Delphi murder investigation for reasons unknown when the search took place at his residence on Feb 25, 2017. So he may’ve been giving himself an alibi or maybe he thought it would look better if he portrayed himself successful at something that might appeal to his followers, whether he was involved with the murders or not. Considering his experience as anthony_shots, we know he’s an expert at lying, that’s for sure.